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Hi all,

I'm a computer tech and have been a Windows user ever since I learned how to operate a computer back in 1994. I have recently been very intrigued by Apple computers and the "Apple" way of life. This has led me to do a bit of research about them and I have recently had the opportunity to use one for a few days.

Having said all of this, I am not convinced that there are sound reasons for me to even begin to "switch" from a Windows user to a Mac user. The most compelling reason that I have for not buying a Mac computer is obviously their considerable price tag. I can buy a decent (medium performance) laptop which is capable of running the latest version of Windows 7 Professional for under $500.

My next reason for not switching yet is that I simply do not see how it is possible to run and "accomplish" all of the daily tasks that I perform using my Windows computer (without running a Windows emulator on a Mac, which defeats the point of owning a Mac in the first place).

I welcome any thoughts and suggestions.

Robert
 

chscag

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First, Welcome to the Mac Forums.

Many of us have been (and still are) Windows users. If you're convinced that a Mac is too expensive for you, and that you think you can't accomplish all your daily tasks without running Windows on the Mac, then, I strongly suggest you remain with Windows and purchase a Win machine instead.

If you would like to experiment on the Mac platform to see what it's really like, perhaps a second hand older Intel Mac might be something you can pick up to play around with.
 

cwa107


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Yeah, I have to say - if you've got no beef with Windows, I see no reason to look elsewhere. Yes, OS X is a great OS and the hardware is very pretty - but as you said, it's also not cheap.

There's really no "Apple way of life". There was a much more cult-like mindset in the past, but with the kind of market share Apple is pulling these days, the Mac is so much more mainstream than it ever was before and this has diluted the "culture" that many long-time Apple users once held in such esteem.

I work in IT in a Microsoft-centric shop as a systems engineer. Although I didn't cut my teeth on Windows (Commodore 64 and later Amiga), I know it like the back of my hand. For me, the decision to use a Mac came down to the fact that they make excellent notebooks. I spend enough of my time maintaining crack baby Windows servers during the day. The last thing I want is to have to play with my personal machine to make it do what I want to in my off hours. So, when Windows Vista reared it's ugly head back in '06, I decided to give the Mac a try.

For the most part, maintenance for my MacBook Pro consists of opening and closing the lid. I don't have to mess with it - and I like that. Seldom do I ever even reboot it. Money can't buy that kind of performance on a Windows notebook.

I still maintain a Windows gaming rig and my wife's laptop. But most of my personal computing happens on my Mac. And for that matter, when I need to work from home, my Mac works beautifully with Citrix XenApp/XenDesktop.

I do run Windows in a VM, but very rarely have a need for it.

So, I guess the long and the short of it is... if you're looking for something different, are able to embrace change and would like to leave work-at-work, the Mac might be a great choice.
 
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First, Welcome to the Mac Forums.

Thank you very much for the warm welcome! I wasn't sure my comments would be received, and hoped for a great start such as yours.

If you would like to experiment on the Mac platform to see what it's really like, perhaps a second hand older Intel Mac might be something you can pick up to play around with.

I truly want to have a Macbook Pro of my own to play with which I'm sure that I could do a few of my daily tasks on as well. That is why I started looking into a used one and I am finding that they are quite pricy as well (that is for good quality ones that are in perfect working order). It's a lot like Harley Davidson motorcycles (which I've longed to own since my youth and still do not because I simply cannot afford one), while they are well made products they come at a premium cost.

In my opinion, Apple might do better to offer refurbished equipment at exactly half of the original price to become the largest retailer of used Apple products as well as new. I truly believe that they could handle the dip in revenue while helping people by giving those who cannot afford a new Mac the chance to experience what most Mac users have come to love.
 
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Hooray!

I've been working a a Desktop Support tech for over 10 years. I switched about a week ago. Is Mac expensive? No dough it is. Is Mac OS more clean and stable than windows, NO DOUGH it st!

After hating MAC OS for many years I finally realized that you get what you paid for.

I have the best Windows computer at home running 4 and 8 Gb Ram and Windows 7 Ultimate. I have the tendency to re-image my computers every six months just to keep their performance running like new. Also, so many errors and crashed for many years got me tired of Windows.

All the software that I used to run on windows I can run on my Mac. I run VMware Fusion with a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate just in case butI never had to use it so far.

Bottom line is: If you do not have solid reasons to justify the price of a Mac or cannot afford it. Stay with Window.

Now, If you want to have a computer with a clean OS, Great design and performance then go with Mac. Mac's are a solid piece of aluminum while Windows is all plastic and look already old out the box.

I've been only been using Mac for 8 days and that is enough to tell everybody that I will never go back to Windows.
 
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Yeah, I have to say - if you've got no beef with Windows, I see no reason to look elsewhere. Yes, OS X is a great OS and the hardware is very pretty - but as you said, it's also not cheap.

Exactly! It's not that I necessarily want or need to switch per se, I guess it's that I am so intrigued by the look and simplicity of Apple products. I do have an iPhone 4S and I love it.

For me, the decision to use a Mac came down to the fact that they make excellent notebooks. ... So, when Windows Vista reared its ugly head back in '06, I decided to give the Mac a try.

Amen about Microsoft's worst joke ever which they called Vista! Although I have to say that as I've been running Windows 7 Professional for more than a year now, It is simply Vista that actually "works"! I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that MacBooks are truly great products in every way.

I spend enough of my time maintaining crack baby Windows servers during the day. The last thing I want is to have to play with my personal machine to make it do what I want to in my off hours.

I am actually the opposite, in that I have always been most happy "messing" with computers to see what they can and more often cannot do. I'm not sure why, but even after 17 years I still enjoy playing on computers even after I get home from working on them all day long.

One of the reasons that Apple software works so well is that they prevent users from "messing" around with their software, and that is why I'm not sure how much I would enjoy a Mac after the newness wore off.
 
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After hating MAC OS for many years I finally realized that you get what you paid for.

Why do you say that you hated Mac OS? I don't mean that sarcastically, I really want to know what you may have had against it. I have never disliked Apple or their OS, I simply wish that I could afford one.

I have the best Windows computer at home running 4 and 8 Gb Ram and Windows 7 Ultimate. I have the tendency to re-image my computers every six months just to keep their performance running like new. Also, so many errors and crashed for many years got me tired of Windows.

I am the same way when it comes to doing the things which are required to keep a Windows computer running smooth, fast and error free. I cannot say that OS X solves all of these underlying issues because I am completely ignorant to their inner workings and internal features (meaning the "behind the scenes" code that keep a computer clean, mean and error free). I will say however that in taking the iBook G4 that I recently worked on for a friend from no OS to completely running and updated, I was thoroughly impressed by the fact that I did nothing more than simply retried each step until it succeeded. In other words, I did absolutely no research and/or alterations to the four OS X 10.4 cd's as well as my processes in order to end up with a completely working system! That has proven to me that at a minimum, OS X can learn and in fact heal itself and overcome obstacles. This must be why I have always heard that if a simple (meaning basic) user wants a computer that simply works then Mac is the choice to buy.
 
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Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Assuming that a used (perfectly working) MacBook Pro can be found for under $500, which features should be in what level of priority in order to get the best Mac experience for the money? For example, screen size (13"/15"/17"), type (iBook/MacBook Pro), Maximum OS, etc.. Assuming that I can always replace/increase the size of the RAM and HDD.

If this question belongs in another section of this forum, then please let me know which one to re-post it in.

Robert
 
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chas_m

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I agree with the other commenters overall, but I would like to say this about the Mac's so-called "high pricetag."

I value my time (in fact, I put a pricetag on it). I also appreciate a good value over the lowest possible price most of the time, particularly when there's a clear difference.

For me, that difference -- in elegance, in productivity, in logic -- is Mac OS X, the quality of software (included and third-party) and the integration of hardware. It adds a stupendous amount of value to the computer over ANY Windows system IMHO.

Over the last 24 years, I've bought a new or refurbished Mac, run it VERY HARD for four to five years, then bought another one. While I may be the exception, and I've had a few hard drives go out on me, overall each of those machines (carefully chosen) have been trouble-free, defect-free, high-productivity boxes than are often run more than 15 hours per day on various tasks. Almost all of the machines I've bought since 1994 were given to others when I was done with them and lasted another four years or so with the new owners.

Given that I can make back the cost of the Mac I purchase over a weekend if I'm really busy with paying work, I don't think they are overpriced in the slightest. Even if I didn't rely on them for my living, I think let's say $1,500 in cost up front but good for over four to five years is all that much to pay when the quality, versatility and efficiency is and remains very high, and for me it always has been (and the customer service, which I've been fortunate never to need, is outstanding -- many, many stories on this and every other forum about fantastic Apple service). I'm writing this on a 2007 machine that is still running the latest everything in terms of OS, browsers, and most software (though I did stay with Adobe CS3 because its best suited to this machine, and CS6 will be out by the time I get my new one). I can't think of many PCs made in 2007 that would thrive with the latest everything Microsoft.

Users who do little beyond Facebook and email certainly don't need to spend the "extra" money on a Mac unless they just happen to prefer it, but I've noticed that the higher up the professional ladder you go these days, the more Macs and iOS devices you start to see. There's a reason for that, IMO.

You've seen a bit of what the company's about with your iPhone, and you clearly understand that some things aren't "just another motorcycle" to use the HD analogy. So you know that sometimes a "higher" price up front will get you a lot better value over time, and that a company that's genuinely focused on pleasing its customers is a better partner overall -- even when issues come up -- than one that doesn't give a rat's behind about anything but getting your dollars. That's part of what makes Harley-Davidson stand out over, say, Honda -- who also make cars and lawnmowers and other stuff and are generally a big conglomerate.

On a number of occasions I've been asked to help someone put together a machine that had all of the built-in capabilities and quality software that one would find on a Mac. Now this task is actually impossible to fully accomplish -- there simply isn't anything that integrates like a Mac, Thunderbolt's only just becoming available to PCs and there's nothing in the Windows world like Mac OS X or the iLife apps -- but given those limitations, trying to put something together that's a comparable as possible. So far, clients and I have come to the same conclusion each time -- to get the best possible quality parts AND high-quality software that replicates as much as possible EVERYTHING a typical Mac can do costs a great deal MORE than an actual Mac, not less.

But even if you don't want to go mano-a-mano on features, high-end professional-quality PC workstations don't really cost less (or not much less, anyway). Forgetting ALL the other features of the iMac, for example, good luck finding a quad-core i7 (et al, video card, storage, etc) WITH an LED-backlit IPS top-quality 27" screen for less than the retail price of the iMac. And that's BEFORE we get into the OS, software or included hardware perks.

I understand why people think (most) Macs are expensive. They don't know about OS X, they don't understand all that the machine could do that their $600 Dell would choke on because they'd never do that stuff on their Dell. I totally get that.

But the Mac, priced as it is, gives you not just the technical ABILITY to reach further, dream bigger and do more ... it makes it possible for users to imagine themselves ABLE to reach further, dream bigger and do more. That I think is one of the many intangible qualities that make the Mac (for a lot of people, but not everyone) a better value than most PCs in many cases.
 
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Well spoken good sir! I agree with most if not all of your thoughts. I would have to say that although I'm not totally convinced that a Mac is worth even my biggest dreams, I just cannot justify the cost of my than $500 for a good used one. I am not saying that it wouldn't be worth it's price tag, but rather I should simply stick to and learn to be content with enjoying the more basic things in life.


I wouldn't dream of going out and spending my retirement savings on the absolute best cigar in the world simply to have the best smoking experience possible, and so it is with a Harley, and Rolex and a Mac in my particular case. Sometimes I wonder what makes certain objects so truly great yet at the same time so unattainable to most. As you said, you can easy make $1,500 in a single weekend which makes an object worth a few thousand dollars hardly worth contemplation. On the other hand, most people (myself included) making less than $50,000 per year would seldom give such a purchase any serious thought and simply accept it as merely a dream.


Again, thank you all for giving me your thoughts on Apple computers and a touch of philosophy!
 
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Please allow me to clarify my previous statement by adding that If I possessed anything such as an idea, product or service that was truly beneficent, I wouldn't feel ethical charging the highest price that some could and would pay to get it. Take food for example; if I had just enough to feed 100 people, should I take more money from some in order to get more if it means that others would go without? Assuming of course that all 100 could give me an amount which would cover my cost.

I realize that I will get a huge amount of criticism for this analogy, it's the best one that I can think of at the moment to illustrate that if something in this world/life can be beneficial to others, then we should strive to share it without a trace of greed.

And yes, I do understand the rules of supply & demand.

Because I have taken us way off topic, I will end with this post.
 
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Plain and Simple: Do like Nike says... Just do it! You won't regret it :)
 
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Believe me pal, I wish I could! Simply can't afford more than the $500 that I received as a birthday gift. :'(
 
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I would just like to add,
I got my upgraded 'BlackBook' for $550 on eBay. If you buy used or refurbished you can find quite the discount on all kinds of Macs. Mine even came with extra expensive programs like Adobe Master Suite CS5, Final Cut Pro, and etc...

I to have been fascinated with Macs for a long time, but never thought I could afford one. Then I decided to check eBay for cheap Macs and I found the one I have now, and I'm happy with my switch. All I really use my Mac for is music production, photography editing, basic web browsing, iTunes, and a second back-up for my external 500 GB hard drive. (I've never been able to house all of my external's data on a computer before, since I have 300+ GB of music, pictures, and data.) I suggest, if you wouldn't mind buying a used Mac, check out eBay. (And make sure to look for 'Buy It Now' instead of bidding, it's easier.) That's how I got mine! :D
 
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21" iMac * 2.8 Ghz Intel Core i7 * 16GB 1333 Mhz DDR3 * 1TB HD *AMD Radeon HD 6770M 512 MB
Macbooks aren't a pricey as you might think. They're really not that much different from other computers in its class, except you don't have to pay for AV software subscriptions and Macbooks will hold their value longer. I've had mine for almost four years and it's just as fast as the day I got it. I know for a fact that after 2 or 3 years my old cheap Windows box was slowed down to a crawl despite my best efforts to maintain it. You get what you pay for: there's a reason why so many other notebooks are so cheap; they're made of creaky plastic, as thick as bricks and covered with annoying blinking lights. Macbook Pros are made with really great quality screens, shells and trackpads.

On top of that OS X is such a smooth, integrated, mostly headache-free OS. You can still tinker with a Mac if you really want to. It's as easy as opening up Terminal.

Apple does have a refurbished section on their website, but nothing really at the price point you want. Better to check ebay. Just make sure you get the installation disks with it.
 
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Well gentlemen (assuming the absence of ladies...),

I started this journey yesterday morning and despite my reservations, I am proud to announce that 3 hours ago I purchased a 21.5" iMac demo from my local Frys Electronics store for $850. I know that I said that I couldn't spend over $500, but after discussing it with my loving wife we decided that if it's as good as everyone says that they are then it's money well spent. I can also buy a 3-year full replacement plan from Frys for $129 within the next 14 days, which I will try my best to come up with as Apple won't touch this thing warranty wise as it was a demo.

Anyway, here are the specs:

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: iMac
Model Identifier: iMac11,2
Processor Name: Intel Core i3
Processor Speed: 3.06 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache (per core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 4 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Processor Interconnect Speed: 5.86 GT/s
Boot ROM Version: IM112.0057.B00
SMC Version (system): 1.64f5


Intel 5 Series Chipset:

Vendor: Intel
Product: 5 Series Chipset
Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Negotiated Link Speed: 3 Gigabit
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

ST3500418AS:

Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)
Model: ST3500418AS
Revision: AP25
Serial Number: 9VMG8YYL
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Rotational Rate: 7200
Medium Type: Rotational
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
Writable: Yes
BSD Name: disk0s1
Macintosh HDD:
Capacity: 499.76 GB (499,763,888,128 bytes)
Available: 488.14 GB (488,137,703,424 bytes)
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s2
Mount Point: /
 

cwa107


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Very nice, and congrats! I can't wait to hear about your impressions. Be sure to keep us posted as you progress. And of course, if you have questions, you know where to come!
 

Slydude

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Wow. Nice rig there for the price. Here I was all set to ask more about the things you were expecting not to be able to do on a Mac and you've alreasy purchased one.

BTW don't want to toot my own horn but if you follow the About This Particular Macintosh link in my sig you may find that ezine quite helpful from time to time. Over the last several months I've focussed on tasks that could be done using only the software that's included on a Mac.
 
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chas_m

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+1 to what Sylvester said!

Great deal, yeah since it was a demo you may want to pony up for the Fry's warranty. I hope you enjoy it as much as I've enjoyed mine!
 

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