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Steven Hawking says " There is no heaven, is only a fairytale" !!!!

cwa107


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Oh no, here we go...

Cue the zealots from both sides in...10....9......8....7....
 

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Yeah, I think I'm going to be watching this one closely. Religious discussions never go well.
 

RavingMac

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I guess I will never understand the concept that one could prove or disprove the existence (or nonexistence) of anything or anyone that is not subject to natural laws.
The very nature of a supreme being (and you can list me as a zealot if it pleases you since I happen to believe in one) as is commonly accepted makes any attempt to use the universe and our knowledge of it a fruitless endeavor. Rather like the old story of the blindmen and the elephant.

Anyway, I have no desire to engage in or encourage pointless argument, just never have been good at keeping my mouth shut.
 
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Yeah, I think I'm going to be watching this one closely. Religious discussions never go well.



Thats not what i want to happen but can understand if it does happen. I just hope fellow members follow the Form Rules.
Thought it would be interesting having the most intelligent man in the universe putting his point forward.
I dont begrudge people of there beliefs what so ever, but im on the side of Steven on this one.
And this comment sums it up for me, in response to someone saying its "a logical impossibility to say god does not exists"

David of Adelaide, it is logically impossible for people to know god exists without any proven evidence. it is ,however logically plausible to believe something does not exist if there is no evidence of it.
 

robduckyworth


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Anyway, I have no desire to engage in or encourage pointless argument, just never have been good at keeping my mouth shut.

I need to learn how to do this more! :p

My view is rather similar to his.

I was a believer up until about a year and a half ago. Things happened that made me doubt my belief; so you could probably call me Agnostic, as I am unsure as to whether to call myself an Athiest or a Believer, but this question has been burning a hole in my brain for a while now. I wish I could believe, but all the doubt in my mind seems far heavier than the hope that a God does exist.

Hopefully I have expressed my feelings on this subject in a way that is not provoking of any sort of religious debate :)
 

vansmith

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I wish I could believe, but all the doubt in my mind seems far heavier than the hope that a God does exist.
Don't force yourself to believe what you don't want to believe. That goes both ways - don't force yourself to believe in a god and don't force yourself not to believe in a god if you're comfortable with your beliefs and/or they suit you. That logic applies to things outside of religion as well. ;)
 

robduckyworth


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Don't force yourself to believe what you don't want to believe. That goes both ways - don't force yourself to believe in a god and don't force yourself not to believe in a god if you're comfortable with your beliefs and/or they suit you. That logic applies to things outside of religion as well. ;)

brilliantly put vansmith. :)
 
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Whatever floats your boat.
 
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I don't believe in fairly tails either, and agree with Hawkins. However, religion and a being which may have a better understanding of the universe (that already makes this "being" more supreme than any human) have little or nothing to do with one another. Humans created religion... not some outer worldly being. Furthermore, I also feel that one need not prescribe to any religious beliefs in order to have faith in spiritual matters. Meaning mostly, what happens when we die.

My personal opinion is that most people cling to religious tales in order to fill a void and to keep them sane since they don't know what is going to happen when they die. It's comforting to think that there's something else, naturally.. The only thing I can honestly say I hate (and I don't use the word hate unless I mean it) about religion is the amount of discord it causes between people who practice differing beliefs.

I see nothing wrong in believing in something else out there, but to the point of that something dictating our lives at our very core? That's the part I find highly humorous. I just don't get how intelligent beings (humans) can even admit to believing the things that are written in the bible or any other religious book.

Love thy neighbor.. hey, all good no problem. Have rules, I get it we need such things in order to maintain order in society. But come on with all of the magic and miracles etc.. If anything, I feel that religion is a major hindrance against the evolution of mankind in general. Too much separation in any form simply can not be a good thing for us in terms of progress.

Faith is a good thing to have, so long as it isn't blind or dictated by those whom are miserable and only seeking company. And in my experience, that category is coveted by most who are emphatic about their religious beliefs.

I tend to think that death is just another beginning, and that our "energy" if you will, is recycled throughout the universe and is a part of what makes up matter in general. Pretty basic and mostly true. What happens afterward in terms of an afterlife.. I dunno.. maybe we'll all get to discuss that when the time comes. Which according to the absolute nut jobs shall be in 4 days ;P

Doug
 
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For most people, theism is as theism does. While I believe in God, I have nothing against those who do not. I have a big problem with those who push their beliefs or disbeliefs on me or others. A guy at a meeting once said "You don't need to believe in God. You just need to believe you are not God." I think if people could at least keep that in mind, things might run more smoothly.
Death is more traumatic for the living in my experience. I try not to seek it nor send it whenever possible. Make peace with it however you may, and then get on with life. It comes to us all soon enough.
 
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cwa107


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For most people, theism is as theism does. While I believe in God, I have nothing against those who do not. I have a big problem with those who push their beliefs or disbeliefs on me or others. A guy at a meeting once said "You don't need to believe in God. You just need to believe you are not God." I think if people could at least keep that in mind, things might run more smoothly.
Death is more traumatic for the living in my experience. I try not to seek it nor send it whenever possible. Make peace with it however you may, and then get on with life. It comes to us all soon enough.

^ That. You have my nomination for post of the month!
 
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For most people, theism is as theism does. While I believe in God, I have nothing against those who do not. I have a big problem with those who push their beliefs or disbeliefs on me or others. A guy at a meeting once said "You don't need to believe in God. You just need to believe you are not God." I think if people could at least keep that in mind, things might run more smoothly.
Death is more traumatic for the living in my experience. I try not to seek it nor send it whenever possible. Make peace with it however you may, and then get on with life. It comes to us all soon enough.

You say that as if not having something against someone who doesn't [believe in god] is doing them a favor or being kind despite their lack of better judgment. After all, this isn't about holding something against someone because of their religious beliefs. In fact, just the opposite.

I tried to explain that it is not religion that should dictate how humans behave toward one another. Yet, it is (to some) as you've just kind of proved (by your initial assertion) I mean really... It would take a rather small minded person to view another human being and judge whether or not they liked them based upon their religious beliefs or lack thereof, would it not ? And by looking at our world today, it's quite easy to see that there are indeed, far too many small minded individuals who would rather take stock in what their religion tells them is right, than to actually live in the moment and get familiar with their fellow brother and sister.

And I think you'll find (if you actually look) that most of the "pushing" or convincing of beliefs comes from those with a religious stance. Those whom are not religious, tend to stay out of such conversations until they're actually pushed into one.. scientists aside of course. Those with religious views and beliefs FAR outweigh the percentage of those without. The atheist's I've met are smart enough to not try and bother having a conversation in which the goal was to convince someone that god doesn't exist.

Can't really say the same with the tables turned. That said, I'd certainly toast with any one here... I believe in beer!

Doug
 
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You say that as if not having something against someone who doesn't [believe in god] is doing them a favor or being kind despite their lack of better judgment. After all, this isn't about holding something against someone because of their religious beliefs. In fact, just the opposite.

I said nothing "as if". I said what I meant. Generally, I don't do favors for strangers very often unless there is need. Atheists have no need for me to do them the unsolicited "favor" of validating their value system, and thus there was no need to do what I didn't do.

I tried to explain that it is not religion that should dictate how humans behave toward one another.

You have your concepts of why people should or shouldn't do things, I have mine, and there are many others. No arguments here.

Yet, it is (to some) as you've just kind of proved (by your initial assertion) I mean really... It would take a rather small minded person to view another human being and judge whether or not they liked them based upon their religious beliefs or lack thereof, would it not ? And by looking at our world today, it's quite easy to see that there are indeed, far too many small minded individuals who would rather take stock in what their religion tells them is right, than to actually live in the moment and get familiar with their fellow brother and sister.

I don't follow this jump here, but that's fine. I view and judge people all the time for a variety of reasons. Using belief in God or lack thereof as a measure is not something that immediately springs to mind as very useful when sizing someone up in most cases.

And I think you'll find (if you actually look) that most of the "pushing" or convincing of beliefs comes from those with a religious stance. Those whom are not religious, tend to stay out of such conversations until they're actually pushed into one.. scientists aside of course. Those with religious views and beliefs FAR outweigh the percentage of those without. The atheist's I've met are smart enough to not try and bother having a conversation in which the goal was to convince someone that god doesn't exist.

Rather "small minded" in it's own right to coin a phrase. I've known both rabidly God-centric and rabidly atheistic individuals. They are free to spout whatever they like. I care enough to listen for awhile, but I honestly don't have anything invested in their methodology as long as the outcome works out positively.

Can't really say the same with the tables turned. That said, I'd certainly toast with any one here... I believe in beer!

Doug

I don't drink liquor, but would happily raise a glass with you.
 
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For most people, theism is as theism does. While I believe in God, I have nothing against those who do not. I have a big problem with those who push their beliefs or disbeliefs on me or others. A guy at a meeting once said "You don't need to believe in God. You just need to believe you are not God." I think if people could at least keep that in mind, things might run more smoothly.
Death is more traumatic for the living in my experience. I try not to seek it nor send it whenever possible. Make peace with it however you may, and then get on with life. It comes to us all soon enough.

I like this one.
 
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You say that as if not having something against someone who doesn't [believe in god] is doing them a favor or being kind despite their lack of better judgment.

Actually I think he was saying the opposite?
Let's try to keep it civil and when in doubt over the exact meaning or intention of a post, give someone the benefit of the doubt, m'kay?

We're all part of the Church of Steve here anyway...
 
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And the thread is headed down hill already.....
 

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