Objective Cost Comparison: Mac vs PC

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
123
Points
63
Location
Rocky Mountain High, Colorado
Your Mac's Specs
1.8 GHz i7 MBA 11" OSX 10.8.2
It seems there has been either a lot of interest or a lot of trolls lately when it comes to the Mac vs PC debate. I'd like to show why you aren't doing an Apples to Apple (pardon the pun) comparison. I am going to compare to Dell to keep it simple. Plus many companies (including my own) use Dell. I have a lot of experience with Dell as well. Also you will see I will show DIY options for the Mac and not the PC. This is because Apple charges you way too much to upgrade components and Dell does not. I would order upgrades from Dell - I would not pay Apple to upgrade stuff like Ram for me. For example $400 for 8GB vs $150 for 8GB to do it myself.

On System Specs
When it comes to laptops most PC people come on here and go - "check it out I can get a core i7 with 500GB and 8GB of RAM for $900 - why would I get a Mac?"

Quick answer - the system specs are only part of the story and let's put that to rest.

I would postulate that the Macbook Pros would be on par with the business line of most PC makers. That means if you are comparing a Macbook Pro with a Dell Inspirion or any other home use consumer line laptop, then the Macbook Pro is wrong for you. You should be looking at the White Macbook. But you say "I cannot get the latest processors (core i5/i7) with anything other than the 15 inch MBP." That is fine but you cannot compare a core i5 consumer laptop with a core i5 15 inch MBP.

The Pro at the end of the name means you'd have to compare to the Dell Latitude line to get similar build quality. If build quality is not important to you - ie "I'm not going to move this computer around a lot" then go get the cheaper Windows box. You can argue this until you are blue in the face. I am a road warrior - I have the top tier status at a major hotel chain(28 stays/year), and 2nd from the top tier status on a major airline.(50k flight miles) I, and others like me, need build quality. Nothing is more upsetting than a busted computer 1000 miles from home, right before you have to give a presentation.

TL ; DR - build quality of the Macbook Pros means you have to look at business class laptops to compare specs. If you cannot get past this point, then a Mac is not for you. Price is the most important issue so therefore go get the cheapest/fastest machine you can find.

Consumer Grade Comparison
Let us compare a XPS 14 vs a White Macbook.
Size & Weight
Dell Width 13.9" (352.8mm) Mac Width 13.00 inches (33.03 cm)
Dell Height 1.2" (31.4mm) front /1.4" (35.4mm) back Macbook Height 1.08 inches (2.74 cm)
Dell Depth 9.7" (247.4mm) Macbook Depth 9.12 inches (23.17 cm)
Dell Weight Starting weight of 5.35lbs. (2.43 kg)11
with 6 cell battery; 5.72lbs (2.6kg) with 9-cell battery. Weights will vary depending on configurations and manufacturing variability.
Macbook Weight 4.7 pounds (2.13 kg)

Dell Base Price $899
Mac Base Price $999

Dell wins on Processor (core i5 up to a core i7) and Video Card - 1GB 420m Nvidia. It also wins with the option of a tv tuner. I couldn't find a core i5 but here are the geekbench scores for an i7 XPS vs a Macbook core duo. This isn't quite right as I couldn't find an XPS 14 but it is at least a ballpark figure.
Dell Inc. Studio XPS 1645 : Geekbench Result Browser
MacBook (Early 2008) : Geekbench Result Browser
What does that mean in real world scenarios? You can encode movies and audio faster, video editing will be faster, run simulations faster, and 3d gaming will be better on the Dell. Otherwise for web browsing, basic photo editing, email, the day to day stuff I would say you won't see a difference. I would also claim that in the real world you need to have an Anti-Virus on the windows side which takes processing power as well. That never shows up on benches though. Is fastest/cheapest your criteria? Then the Dell is for you.

What is missing from the Dell?
Bluetooth $20
9 Cell 8h 30min battery $40 (Macbook claims 10hr battery life)
Backlit keyboard $25
Windows Ultimate $150 - This would put Windows close to Mac as you need Ultimate to have bitlocker encryption and network backup. (Professional would get you network backup but no bitlocker)
That brings the total to $1134

Ah - but you need to match specs with the Macbook - so the Macbook needs some additions
500GB HD 5400 RPM- $150 from Apple $95 for a DIY kit and cage from OWC for a 7200 RPM 500GB drive
4GB of RAM - $100 from Apple or $80 from OWC to install yourself
8GB install yourself $149
From Apple $1249 - install yourself $1174 - 8GB $1243

And even though I said it isn't fully Apples to Apples - A similarly configured 2.4GHz i5 MBP - with 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive is $1949 from Apple. DIY price $1894 or $2043 for 8GB. As I said the Specs match but the build quality doesn't.

TL ; DR - You still can get a faster PC laptop for less money, but it isn't that much less. This is just hardware specs, I didn't fully compare software that comes with the Mac vs what comes with a PC. Only the really basic stuff like backup and disk encryption were included in the compare

Pro Grade Compare
Dell Latitude E6510 - I chose this laptop as it could get the closest specs to the 15.4" Mac.

Dell Starting weight 5.53lbs/2.51kg (with 6-cell battery) MBP 15 Weight 5.6 pounds (2.54 kg)3
Dell Width 14.74"/374.3mm MBP 15 Width 14.35 inches (36.4 cm)
Dell Height (front/back) 1.1-1.3"/27.1-31.5mm MBP 15 Height 0.95 inch (2.41 cm)
Dell Depth 9.97"/253.3mm MBP 15 Depth 9.82 inches (24.9 cm)

Now the specs are more evenly matched.
Both are
2.4GHz i5, 4GB of Ram, 500GB 7200rpm Hard Drive, dvd rw drive, webcam and microphone, backlit keyboard, bluetooth and discrete graphics card.
The Dell runs $1424 (with the sale going on right now - normally it is $1839)
The Mac would be $1949 or $1894 with a DIY hard drive upgrade. So without the sale you can see the price is much closer. One can get a refurbished model from Apple for $1529 - and with a DIY upgrade it would be $1624 for the 500GB hard drive.

Now I would say you have similar build quality - and again you see that the price difference for Sales/Refurb ; Actual/Actual still aren't that far away.

TL ; DR Compare build quality when looking at laptops. I generally don't recommend consumer grade laptops as they tend to fail in 3 to 5 years in my experience. YMMV
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
836
Reaction score
17
Points
18
Your Mac's Specs
C2D 2.26 | 500GB Seagate Momentus | 2GB 1066 (soon to be 8)
There are some PC manufacturers that offer great products with great warranties. Asus and Sager are probably two of the best PC manufacturers out there, and Alienware is making a name for themselves. They offer solid built product with excellent customer service. Asus even offers a 1 year accidental damage warranty for free.

I think people's bad experience with PC's is the fact that they owned the wrong kind of PC. They owned a Walmart special that was on sale with a mail in rebate, so they think they got some kind of deal. People need to be more educated with their purchases, and if they saw the aluminum body of the Macbook Pros as opposed to some of the cheap plastic of the Walmart specials they would think again.

I'm not trying to say PC or Mac I'm just saying people need to be educated in their purchase. The reason I'm switching to Mac is I want the ease of use with the portability of a Macbook Pro 13. I have owned a high end gaming system from Asus. It was a great PC with zero problems even after being dropped, but it wasn't portable, it ran extremely hot, and had terrible battery life.
 
OP
IvanLasston
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
123
Points
63
Location
Rocky Mountain High, Colorado
Your Mac's Specs
1.8 GHz i7 MBA 11" OSX 10.8.2
There are some PC manufacturers that offer great products with great warranties. Asus and Sager are probably two of the best PC manufacturers out there, and Alienware is making a name for themselves. They offer solid built product with excellent customer service. Asus even offers a 1 year accidental damage warranty for free.

I think people's bad experience with PC's is the fact that they owned the wrong kind of PC. They owned a Walmart special that was on sale with a mail in rebate, so they think they got some kind of deal. People need to be more educated with their purchases, and if they saw the aluminum body of the Macbook Pros as opposed to some of the cheap plastic of the Walmart specials they would think again.

I'm not trying to say PC or Mac I'm just saying people need to be educated in their purchase. The reason I'm switching to Mac is I want the ease of use with the portability of a Macbook Pro 13. I have owned a high end gaming system from Asus. It was a great PC with zero problems even after being dropped, but it wasn't portable, it ran extremely hot, and had terrible battery life.

This is exactly my point, and one I hope to get across. I am not trying to say Mac vs PC per se. I am saying if you are going to compare notebooks or any computer for that matter - actually take the time to compare them. Price, Processor, Memory, Hard Drive, Graphics Card is just a few things to compare. I didn't even go into system busses, cores, turbos, or even 64 bit vs 32 bit.

People are always asking my what to buy. If they want a PC I always point them to the higher quality builders. Asus is #1 currently in rate of failure. I usually recommend Lenovo, Toshiba and Fujitsu business class laptops as well. Alienware had it share of problems (I had one with an overheating issue) but ever since Dell bought them they seem to be getting better.

The whole purpose of the original post was to look at price/performance from actual data and show that if you try to match hardware the price isn't all that different.

SweetCosmicPope brought up the next point. This is probably even another thread or another deep post. If you look at what you get when you get a Mac, as far as software is concerned, you will see that few hundred dollars difference between a Mac and Windows in the first post go away. The whole iLife suite is very usable and well thought out. To even get to that point on a Windows machine - you are talking about shelling out a couple of hundred dollars to get some decent photo/video editing alone. Plus Garage Band, iWeb, iDVD are all great programs that are actually usable out of the box. I believe all the software and hardware working together is what makes Mac a seamless experience.

As I said the Mac isn't for everyone and gaming in general is better on Windows. Esoteric peripherals with weird drivers will need Windows as well.

All that being said, and why I didn't mention software in the orignal post is - if you really need to run a Windows app - you can on a Mac. If there is a Mac app you really want to run on your Windows box - you really can't legally do that.

Oh and the last bit of hardware/software that really brought me over was the multi-touch trackpad. My wife had one of the original Macbook Airs - as I figured out what the trackpad could do - I found myself hating my Windows pointing device. Now that I have Better Touch Tool fully configured I find myself hardly ever using external mice with my Mac. When I go to my Dell laptop I find myself wishing I had a multi-touch trackpad.
 
OP
IvanLasston
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
123
Points
63
Location
Rocky Mountain High, Colorado
Your Mac's Specs
1.8 GHz i7 MBA 11" OSX 10.8.2
A desktop comparison. This one is a little tricker and I don't always recommend Macs here either. Desktops don't really move around as much so system failure is much lower for these guys. If you buy quality parts they tend to last a long time. Also I have built my last 2 desktops and saved a bunch of money that way. Dealing with ESD and loading your own OS isn't for everyone though. Of course shopping for the best deal does take time as well.

If we start from already built systems then let's compare a Mac Pro to the top of the line workstation Dell has - the t7500. I am actually trying to get one of these for my job. Last time I priced it out with the Max RAM and Max Processor it ran around $15k.

Anyway I started configuring one.
The first interesting thing to note is that Dell quotes the base processor frequency while Apple seems to quote the "boost frequency'
http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/products/server/processor/xeon5000/specifications
So that would mean that you would need to set the base processor to E5630 if I read everything right.
I picked the v8700 with 1GB of RAM to match to the 1GB 5770 of the Mac Pro.
3 GB of RAM - and the 3 year warranty come out to $3429 on sale.
You have to add the $249 Applecare but the base level Mac Pro comes to $2748.
I think the Video Card is what skews the number - plus there are a pile more options for the Dell. If you got a dual 580 MX Quadro with 512GB of RAM each the price for the Dell drops to $2799 on sale.

After researching most of this stuff myself it seems that Anadtech already did this for us
Apple Mac Pro (Mid 2010) Review - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News
$3800 for built computers from Dell or Apple - $1752 for a DIY

Again - if you can put a box together yourself then you can save a pile of money with a PC. My original post is about laptops mainly because that is what most people are buying, and it is the cost analysis I went through when I bought my laptop. Lastly I don't know anyone building their own laptops like we do for desktops - but as noted I am not adverse to popping open a laptop to upgrade it myself.

I guess one could also do a comparison of all in ones - I think HP has some decent ones, but if that is what you are looking for, I love the iMac and their displays.

Summary - build your own Windows desktop. Buy a well built laptop. (or backup early and often) Personal preference I like the iMac and its gorgeous screen.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
390
Reaction score
10
Points
18
The OP made a great, great post. It's too bad trolls kill these threads (as it did one earlier this week). These are valid questions and comparisons and it absolutely is more than just price. Two cars with equal horsepower and leather seats are not the same, and we intuitively know that a Mercedes is generally a better engineered and built care than then Hyundai -- even if both are good cars.

I've used PCs since they were invented, and take pride in a deep understanding of them based on decades of use. I use Apple at home, however, and the key to the price difference (in addition to build quality) is the "it just works" functionality. Windows works well, and 96% of users use it fine. But, the promise of home computers from day one over 25 years ago was that they would be "smart appliances" that would do things for us. We don't expect to have to understand all about how the oven works to use it, nor the telephone, nor our car. To really use a PC without routine and persistent issues, IMO you do have to understand a great deal about how it works.

The absence of numerous and pervasive viruses for OSX is also a huge plus, but of course is a temporary benefit of low market penetration. But man oh man did I get tired of virus software dragging my PCs down, updating virus libraries, etc. And making the home network function was a nightmare.

Macs, because of OSX, do "just work" better and more intuitively out of the box -- evidence of this is how my young kids and my 80 year old dad both just took to the Mac with little explanation by me.

This strength is also a weakness - I cannot "make" the Mac do something OSX doesn't want to do, whereas I can make a Windows machine generally do anything I want it to (and I readily admit a lot of this is decades with DOS/Windows and no desire to learn Linux/Unix). I also wish Macs could be more easily upgraded -- however, it is abundantly apparent to me that build quality is better because I can still use a 4.5 year old iMac to run something as intensive as Pro Tools with no issues -- I would never dare to do that with a "consumer grade" PC desktop without one heck of a lot of DIY upgrades.

Finally, to the point of consumer vs. commercial quality -- after years of buying crap, I've gotten to the point where when I buy something I'm going to use a lot, for a long time, and that is integral to may day-to-day stuff, I look for commercial grade. The old saying of "buy once, cry once" for me is true. I'd rather bite the bullet and buy the unit that will last me 10 years than the "similar" one with all plastic parts that will last 2.

I remember telling people in the 1980's if you want the least expensive home computer, get a PC; if you want the best and easiest to use, get an Apple. Because for most folks the home computer is a pure consumer retail buying decision, it's all price driven.
 
OP
IvanLasston
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
123
Points
63
Location
Rocky Mountain High, Colorado
Your Mac's Specs
1.8 GHz i7 MBA 11" OSX 10.8.2
Status
Not open for further replies.

Shop Amazon


Shop for your Apple, Mac, iPhone and other computer products on Amazon.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Top