Windows - Mac switch at work?

Hello All, first post...sorry its a long one.

I could use some advice on workplace computers. I am a General Manager of a Honda dealership in GA and help oversee two other dealerships in our group. I am already an apple fan and user, (took two years of graphic arts in school as well as marketing and used macs) but we are currently using pc's at work. I HATE THEM. Because of the obvious (or typical) reasons we are thinking of switching all the management computers to macs with the 5 year plan of eventually changing all of them (approx 100-120 machines) to apple. We are consistantly working on these PC's and for some reason our IT guy refuses to run the new versoins of windows, I guess vista causes problems. I know switching will help for many reasons, and I know I would love it (no frozen screens, no ctrl-alt-del, no SLOOW internet) but I'm not sure what obstacles we will run into along the way since unless your doing graphics the workplace seems to be geared towards windows. I know there are some web-based programs we use that won't run on safari, and the internal operating system we will be using should work with it. I guess what I need to know is:
1. What problems should we expect with only having a few machines macs and the rest PC's as far as interacting, servers, files, etc...
2. If we would have to run windows on a mac, is it still worth it?
3. What would y'all do?
Thanks...sorry for the length....

Suppose the first problem will be your IT guy. If he's trained in Microsoft OS's (both server and desktop/workstation) and doesn't know much about OS X then that could be a major problem.

I for one would never want to switch to Macs for desktop and server systems at work - I simply don't know enough about them.

Unless there is a need to use a specific app only available on OSX I'd stick with Windows PCs.

The first company (a multi-billion dollar company) that I worked for after I graduated from college was 100% Macintosh (actually there probably were some Windows computers floating around, but I never saw them).

This was back in 1990 when Macintosh's were not nearly as "flexible" as Macintosh's are today in terms of sharing files & communicating with Windows computers.

There are definitely programs that are only available for Windows computers (and won't run in the Mac OS)...but in many cases there are Macintosh equivalent programs. The difficulty for a company converting to Mac's would be can the data from a Windows program or programs you currently have be imported into a Macintosh equivalent program if a Macintosh version of the same program does not exist.

Obviously programs that you're probably familiar with such as all of the Adobe graphics products, Microsoft Office, etc. have both Windows & Macintosh versions...and so in most of these cases files & data should be fairly easy to move from your old Windows computers to the new Macintosh computers.

Being able to run Windows on a Mac is certainly a big plus...if you really need to. But from a IT perspective...you definitely would need some IT professionals that understand Macintosh computers (as well as Windows) especially when Windows is run on a Mac in order to solve "Windows on a Mac issues" as they arise.

One other thought...there may be some proprietary software that your auto dealership uses for parts inventory, auto inventory control, automobile maintenance, technical manuals, etc...where there may not (and probably isn't) a Macintosh equivalent program ...so this could be a BIG deal breaker...unless these programs would only need to be run on a "few" dedicated Windows computers.

It sounds like your company is mainly switching to Macs for the reasons you mentioned...which mostly seem to revolve around reliability & less IT intervention:

We are consistantly working on these PC's and for some reason our IT guy refuses to run the new versoins of windows, I guess vista causes problems. I know switching will help for many reasons, and I know I would love it (no frozen screens, no ctrl-alt-del, no SLOOW internet)

So if these reliability issues are causing lots of lost productivity & extra dollars spent for IT servicing, parts, and labor...then maybe switching to Mac's is a good idea.

But...also remember that during the initial phases of this transition to Macs...your employees will need some training & time to become familiar with how things work on a Macintosh.

The "Macintosh way" is easy to learn (as you probably know from your Mac experience)...but the "Macintosh way" can be different from the "Windows way" of doing things...so anything that is different can take some time to learn...especially if you are an employee that has been exclusively working with Windows computers for 5, 10, 20, or more years.

I hope that this helps,

- Nick

HondaMAC said:

1. What problems should we expect with only having a few machines macs and the rest PC's as far as interacting, servers, files, etc...

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There shouldn't be any issues.

HondaMAC said:

2. If we would have to run windows on a mac, is it still worth it?

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Absolutely not. If you have to run Windows and nothing else, just use a computer that comes with it already installed.

HondaMAC said:

3. What would y'all do?

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Grin and bear it.
I use Windows at work and I don't enjoy it at all, but that is what my employer has chosen.
I just make the best of it and look forward to coming home and using my Macs.

A few years ago I would have said "forget it"! Too many proprietary programs in a dealership (Honda's, ADP or R&R, etc.) But, as I was leaving field service for another manufacturer more and more of our programs were web-based. I can only assume that trend has continued.

Most, if not all, of the web-based apps will work nicely on your Mac.

I think if I was in your position I would start off with a couple of iMac's for you and other managers. They would work wonderfully for your regular desktop chores (email, spreadsheeting, word processing, etc.) and should be fine for your web-based apps.

I would install Windows using either VMware Fusion or Parallels as a fall back safety net in case you run across something that you just can't get working in OSX.

As others have said though a lot of this would depend on the ability of your IT people to accept the challenge.

I would be interested in your experience if you take the plunge.

As much as I like Macs, in an enterprise environment, the OS is lacking - particularly if you're using a Microsoft infrastructure (Active Directory). If Microsoft does one thing very well, it's definitely large scale deployments of desktops. Although OS X can integrate with AD, that integration is weak at best and doesn't allow for management of security and group policies.

If you're going to introduce Macs, make it just a few at first and see how well they jive with your infrastructure. You're also going to want at least one IT person with some Mac-specific experience, because although we like to think that Macs don't have any problems, that's simply not true.

cwa107 said:

because although we like to think that Macs don't have any problems, that's simply not true.

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Ha ha...one of the MAJOR reasons why this website exists!

- Nick

HondaMAC said:

for some reason our IT guy refuses to run the new versoins of windows, I guess vista causes problems.

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This quote alone shows you really need to get someone to talk to you about your infrastructure and systems.
I would guess you will have a windows domain (using AD) with a number of servers, lan switches, potentially routers (proper routers not xDSL routers) and other equipment. You need to know how all these play together. No one here can just say yes it will be an easy switch or no it will be impossible.

Speaking from experience (I look after a number of businesses infrastructure in the UK with Macs in the mix, though I don't support them direct), there can be all sorts of unforeseen issues and a lot of big downsides from the IT point of view. I wouldn't swap all management out in one go, I would look to swap a few first, after you have removed the issues found in the planning (yourself and maybe half another department) for a couple of months and then if all is ok follow your plan for a gradual roll out if that is decided it is still best.

You should not be looking to run windows in VMs on the Mac as you have to license it and maintain it the same as on physical hardware, plus you have the hypervisor and the Mac hardware and software to maintain too, effectively doubling your workload.

fov said:

This quote alone shows you really need to get someone to talk to you about your infrastructure and systems.
I would guess you will have a windows domain (using AD) with a number of servers, lan switches, potentially routers (proper routers not xDSL routers) and other equipment. You need to know how all these play together. No one here can just say yes it will be an easy switch or no it will be impossible.

Speaking from experience (I look after a number of businesses infrastructure in the UK with Macs in the mix, though I don't support them direct), there can be all sorts of unforeseen issues and a lot of big downsides from the IT point of view. I wouldn't swap all management out in one go, I would look to swap a few first, after you have removed the issues found in the planning (yourself and maybe half another department) for a couple of months and then if all is ok follow your plan for a gradual roll out if that is decided it is still best.

You should not be looking to run windows in VMs on the Mac as you have to license it and maintain it the same as on physical hardware, plus you have the hypervisor and the Mac hardware and software to maintain too, effectively doubling your workload.

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Very well put. I couldn't agree more.

cwa107 said:

Very well put. I couldn't agree more.

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I thank you

The advice you're getting here seems very sound to me. Sorting out the whole thing on paper in a development plan would seem to be the first step, with a risk analysis for every step. Implementing Macs first for a particular workgroup that interacts a great deal, but doesn't impinge too heavily on the core business processes would seem to be sensible, since you would get experience of the transition and, if the costs (of all kinds) turn out to be too heavy you can stop at that and carry on with Windows. You never know, Windows 7 might actually turn out to be more user-friendly (but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one!)

Thank you all for the advice... Our network is currently set up based on windows, with all the stores linked together. That is the area where I have very little experience and don't want to solve one or two problems by creating ten more. RickPrather, you are correct. A lot of our industry has gone web based which is good and bad. No huge setup fees or hardware to deal with, but it seems to be a burden on our computers when doing more than one thing at once. I'm sitting here now on my almost new work PC and have to wait for EVERYTHING while my 4 year old Mac Book Pro is sitting next to it running the same internet stuff over twice as fast. The main reason I would like to switch is the reliability and speed I have always experienced with my apple. What I need to do is put a price on the increased productivity (speed) that I think it would give my other managers. (that is after I got them trained on it). It's hard not to make a decision based on personal preference, but economics will rule out in the end. I may be biting off more than we can chew right now. Maybe as cwa107 said, just one at the time, or maybe just for management.
Your comments have made me think also to look within at our company-wide IT dept closer as well, to possibly fix an existing problem before spending money to "create" another. I think it is hard for us (car dealers) to find good IT employees because most competent people seem like they would rather work for a large company/ corporation. It seems to be the only position where I cannot hire/ train from within because I feel like as unqualified as I would be for the job, I know more than almost everyone. (and thats not much) Everyone else's jobs I can step in and do as well as they can.

Develop menu in Safari

HondaMAC said:

I know there are some web-based programs we use that won't run on safari, and the internal operating system we will be using should work with it.

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You can always enable the Develop menu in Safari's preferences, and change the User Agent to Internet Explorer 6/7/8, earlier versions of Safari, or Firefox 2.x/3.x. But I use Opera, not Safari.

pigoo3 said:

The difficulty for a company converting to Mac's would be can the data from a Windows program or programs you currently have be imported into a Macintosh equivalent program if a Macintosh version of the same program does not exist.

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In cases like this, you can run the Windows software on your machine in a virtual machine (VM). If you're running business software for a car dealership, I can't imagine it's too taxing on the CPU or GPU, so a VM would work fine. You could run a free VM, like Sun's VirtualBox, or shell out for either Parallels or VMWare Fusion (most people I know prefer fusion, though both apps have their pros and cons).

But from a IT perspective...you definitely would need some IT professionals that understand Macintosh computers (as well as Windows) especially when Windows is run on a Mac in order to solve "Windows on a Mac issues" as they arise.

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I can't see why this would be an issue if they're running windows as the native OS and not in a VM. At that point, the hardware becomes just another windows box, albeit a pretty one. Now in a VM, maybe IT would need to read up on it a little bit, but what would be more worrying to me would be having your IT guy know how to get your macs and PCs to talk to each other. Macs are very very easy to network. Windows, not so much from my understanding.

One other thought...there may be some proprietary software that your auto dealership uses for parts inventory, auto inventory control, automobile maintenance, technical manuals, etc...where there may not (and probably isn't) a Macintosh equivalent program ...so this could be a BIG deal breaker...unless these programs would only need to be run on a "few" dedicated Windows computers.

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Agree, but again.. VM.


I say pull the trigger, but that's me.

Well, being an IT guy for the company I work for. I will tell you this much. When I first started here 6 years ago, we had 1 user out of 350 that had a Mac. And every time she had a problem with her Mac, you could hear crickets in the IT department when the ticket came through. Not a single one of us new a single thing about Mac.

Well, now most of us IT guys own a Mac of some flavor or another. So that we may help her out when problems arise. But the bad news is I had to spend two grand of my own money to get the Mac, the company I work for would not foot the bill for it.

So long story short, your biggest obstacle is definitely going to be the IT department. If no one has ever touched a Mac, I can pretty much guarantee they won't touch yours either.