Microsoft Table Thing...

jamessmells · Jun 15, 2009

YouTube

What do you all think?

gagnerants · Jun 15, 2009

Surface has always been a cool idea, I would love to own one. However the cost per one is simply jaw dropping.

jamessmells · Jun 15, 2009

Lifeisabeach · Jun 15, 2009

jamessmells said:
YouTube

What do you all think?

It may have some limited uses in business/industry, but aside from that, who REALLY wants to have to lean in, stretch and move their arms around as much as you'd have to in using that thing versus a regular computer with keyboard/mouse? It's just not practical.

iPod Nano · Jun 15, 2009

And there is a tablet mac that can be purchased. Much smaller and it has the best OS there is (yet): Leopard!

Kash · Jun 15, 2009

I'd love to get myself one of these for my apartment. Would look incredibly cool when guests come over, and I can still use it as a regular coffee table.

Now I just have to wait until it becomes affordable for the average user.

Village Idiot · Jun 16, 2009

lifeisabeach said:
It may have some limited uses in business/industry, but aside from that, who REALLY wants to have to lean in, stretch and move their arms around as much as you'd have to in using that thing versus a regular computer with keyboard/mouse? It's just not practical.

Who says it has to be a horizontally oriented device? I work for the government with security, keycards, and all that. Could you imagine walking into a building and holding your card up to the screen and it greets you, letting you know whether or not you have anything you should attend to prior to sneaking in late to work?

Or with the object recognition? Say you're working on a computer or some other device and you have it on a surface. It could alert you if you're missing important tools. I know I'm forgetful and I'm always running back to my desk for things.

Restaurant as per one of the demos? You could order food and pay for it without having to use a waitress. I know I hate going to a busy restaurant and waiting 15 minutes to order and 15 mintues of sitting around trying to get my bill.

Even if the cost was cheaper, a device in the home. Ever leave your house without your wallet? If you always put it on the surface table and walked out, you'd get an audible reminder that you're losing something important.

Schematics? Working on something and the object recognition picks it up and shows you a live view of the object and it's internals minus what's sitting on the surface itself.

Surgery? If something like this was ever invented for an operating room where it could show patient's vitals and other important pertinent info where the surgeon, nurses, and other parties involved wouldn't have to move their eyes very far off the patient to see vital information.

There's a million ways this could be useful. Use your imagination. This certainly isn't a product that everyone is going to have in their home next week, but it's something that could essentially become a very useful device for a number of things.

Lifeisabeach · Jun 16, 2009

Village Idiot said:
Who says it has to be a horizontally oriented device? I work for the government with security, keycards, and all that. Could you imagine walking into a building and holding your card up to the screen and it greets you, letting you know whether or not you have anything you should attend to prior to sneaking in late to work?

Or with the object recognition? Say you're working on a computer or some other device and you have it on a surface. It could alert you if you're missing important tools. I know I'm forgetful and I'm always running back to my desk for things.

Restaurant as per one of the demos? You could order food and pay for it without having to use a waitress. I know I hate going to a busy restaurant and waiting 15 minutes to order and 15 mintues of sitting around trying to get my bill.

Even if the cost was cheaper, a device in the home. Ever leave your house without your wallet? If you always put it on the surface table and walked out, you'd get an audible reminder that you're losing something important.

Schematics? Working on something and the object recognition picks it up and shows you a live view of the object and it's internals minus what's sitting on the surface itself.

Surgery? If something like this was ever invented for an operating room where it could show patient's vitals and other important pertinent info where the surgeon, nurses, and other parties involved wouldn't have to move their eyes very far off the patient to see vital information.

There's a million ways this could be useful. Use your imagination. This certainly isn't a product that everyone is going to have in their home next week, but it's something that could essentially become a very useful device for a number of things.

Those all sound like limited uses to me. And my imagination has more uses besides imagining the positive. Who's gonna spend even a hundred bucks on a big-*****ed table so that it reminds you that your wallet has been left behind? I never forget mine now... it's ingrained into my habits. And as I tried to point out... who is going to spend a significant amount of time waving their arms over a big screen? Doesn't matter if it's horizontal or vertical. Ever heard of the gorilla arm syndrome? Do this... spend 15 minutes pretending to manipulate the gui on your existing screen with your hand. Then just imagine doing that for a living. Or even for fun. An upright screen will strain your arm muscles within minutes. A horizontal one will ruin your back, your arms, and perhaps even your vision as you strain harder to see across a screen stretching out so far.

I'm also highly skeptical that anything that size will ever be cheap enough for the mass consumer. Personal computers have largely gotten faster over the years, NOT cheaper. At least not without making sacrifices like in size.

Village Idiot · Jun 17, 2009

lifeisabeach said:
Those all sound like limited uses to me. And my imagination has more uses besides imagining the positive. Who's gonna spend even a hundred bucks on a big-*****ed table so that it reminds you that your wallet has been left behind? I never forget mine now... it's ingrained into my habits. And as I tried to point out... who is going to spend a significant amount of time waving their arms over a big screen? Doesn't matter if it's horizontal or vertical. Ever heard of the gorilla arm syndrome? Do this... spend 15 minutes pretending to manipulate the gui on your existing screen with your hand. Then just imagine doing that for a living. Or even for fun. An upright screen will strain your arm muscles within minutes. A horizontal one will ruin your back, your arms, and perhaps even your vision as you strain harder to see across a screen stretching out so far.

I'm also highly skeptical that anything that size will ever be cheap enough for the mass consumer. Personal computers have largely gotten faster over the years, NOT cheaper. At least not without making sacrifices like in size.

But why does it have to be a table, and why does it have to be large, and why do hand movements have to be so big? Some of the technology where it recognizes what's placed on it and allows you to interact could really help with certain things.

What I listed above were just a couple of ideas, to take it a step farther, as a computer repair workstation, it interfaces with a computer that's on it and lets you know what's not working and if it's a software problem or a problem where a connection in the computer isn't working. Currently, I don't believe there's a way for testing if certain circuits are bad in a chip or pin pointing those bad connections without physically testing or getting in there.

And as far as cost, cost is not an object to a lot of big businesses as long as the device serves the purpose it's needed for. I mean, as much money as the government spends on copiers, computers, hardware, service contracts, and everything else is always a lot more than normal consumer prices. I mean, over $100,000 a year for service contracts? I guess if you're replacing things like $15,000 pieces of equipment for free under the contract, then it's worth it.

And PC's have definitely gotten cheaper. I can buy a 15" notebook that will do just about everything I need it to for $500.

HP OmniBook 6000

HP OmniBook 6000 notebook PCs are available immediately in a variety of configurations, with U.S. estimated street prices ranging from $2,099 to $4,399(3).

HP Equips OmniBook 6000 Notebook PC with Intel'sLatest Processors and High-Resolution Display. | Electronics > Computer Equipment from AllBusiness.com

You really have to be pushing it to get a notebook that's $4,399.

iggibar · Jun 17, 2009

I would never want to own that thing!

Lifeisabeach · Jun 17, 2009

Village Idiot said:
But why does it have to be a table, and why does it have to be large, and why do hand movements have to be so big? Some of the technology where it recognizes what's placed on it and allows you to interact could really help with certain things.

Nope, doesn't have to be a table. Could be the size of... oh... an iPhone? Or the oft-rumored tablet-style Macbook? But for this discussion, we were talking about a table. And something of that size I continue to contend will have extremely limited uses and usability.

And as far as cost, cost is not an object to a lot of big businesses as long as the device serves the purpose it's needed for. I mean, as much money as the government spends on copiers, computers, hardware, service contracts, and everything else is always a lot more than normal consumer prices. I mean, over $100,000 a year for service contracts? I guess if you're replacing things like $15,000 pieces of equipment for free under the contract, then it's worth it.

Thus my statement... "limited uses in business/industry".

And PC's have definitely gotten cheaper. I can buy a 15" notebook that will do just about everything I need it to for $500.

HP OmniBook 6000
<snip>
You really have to be pushing it to get a notebook that's $4,399.

Those $500 notebooks and netbooks are making sacrifices though in build quality and component quality to get to that price point, as I said it would take. And the $4,400 HP is an extreme, but still shows how it can still be pricey to get the fastest and best available in current technology at any given point in time. Will the big-assed table get cheaper in time? Sure.... in time the computer power needed will get cheaper and perhaps smaller in size, but the display won't be getting smaller. I would guestimate that a big-assed table will generally cost 1.5 to 2 times the cost of a flat-panel monitor of that size, at best. And barring a MAJOR breakthrough in flat-panel design, that's always gonna be pricey.

DCstrX · Jun 17, 2009

i would want to own one. simply for the use of no cables!!!
ive seen them charging zunes on the videos, cameras, ipods.
and they sync them, download the pictures off the cameras.
and install updates at the touch of a finger.
its a good concept, but unless your willing to pay 10,000 for your own*ithink thats the price iread* microsoft needs to rething their product, maybe on a smaller scale, and with the buyer in mind.

Village Idiot · Jun 17, 2009

lifeisabeach said:
Nope, doesn't have to be a table. Could be the size of... oh... an iPhone? Or the oft-rumored tablet-style Macbook? But for this discussion, we were talking about a table. And something of that size I continue to contend will have extremely limited uses and usability.

Thus my statement... "limited uses in business/industry".

Those $500 notebooks and netbooks are making sacrifices though in build quality and component quality to get to that price point, as I said it would take. And the $4,400 HP is an extreme, but still shows how it can still be pricey to get the fastest and best available in current technology at any given point in time. Will the big-assed table get cheaper in time? Sure.... in time the computer power needed will get cheaper and perhaps smaller in size, but the display won't be getting smaller. I would guestimate that a big-assed table will generally cost 1.5 to 2 times the cost of a flat-panel monitor of that size, at best. And barring a MAJOR breakthrough in flat-panel design, that's always gonna be pricey.

But the iPod and a Mac tablet don't have the features of being able to interact with objects placed on the screen. They have great touch features, but they still don't have the ability to count how much money is laying on them, or syncing to a device laid on them, or pretty much anything that the Microsoft Surface does that doesn't involve multi touch control. It's about the technology, not the package.

They could put it in anything, this is a prototype and a demo. I mean, the original iPod was built like a brick and had limited functionality. Apple took it and upgraded it and installed it in a new smaller body and gave it greater functionality.

As previous presentations I've seen on the device have said, it's not intended to be sold to the general public.

DCstrX said:
i would want to own one. simply for the use of no cables!!!
ive seen them charging zunes on the videos, cameras, ipods.
and they sync them, download the pictures off the cameras.
and install updates at the touch of a finger.
its a good concept, but unless your willing to pay 10,000 for your own*ithink thats the price iread* microsoft needs to rething their product, maybe on a smaller scale, and with the buyer in mind.

But their intended target is going to be businesses, and upscale ones at that. You're not going to see a Microsoft Surface booth at your local McDonald's. Maybe if you go to a really high ended restaurant or club that wants to wow their customers. I'm sure they'd spend the money.

Village Idiot · Jun 17, 2009

Wikipedia said:
Initial customers will be in the hospitality businesses, such as restaurants, hotels, retail, public entertainment venues and the military for tactical overviews.

Wikipedia said:
Surface has been optimized to respond to 52 touches at a time.

Wikipedia said:
Using the specially-designed barcode-style "Surface tags" on objects, Microsoft Surface can offer a variety of features, for example automatically offering additional wine choices tailored to the dinner being eaten based on the type of wine set on the Surface, or in conjunction with a password, offering user authentication.

A commercial Microsoft Surface unit is $12,500 (unit only), whereas a developer Microsoft Surface unit costs $15,000 and includes a developer unit, five seats and support.[5] However Microsoft said it expects prices to drop enough to make consumer versions feasible in 2010.[6]

Wikipedia said:
The Surface is used to choose meals at restaurants, plan vacations and spots to visit from the hotel room. Starwood Hotels plan to allow users to drop a credit card on the table to pay for music, books, and other amenities offered at the resort. In AT&T stores, use of the Surface include interactive presentations of plans, coverage, and phone features, in addition to dropping two different phones on the table and having the customer be able to view and compare prices, features, and plans. MSNBC's coverage of the 2008 US presidential election used Surface to share with viewers information and analysis of the race leading up to the election. The anchor analyzes polling and election results, views trends and demographic information and explores county maps to determine voting patterns and predict outcomes, all with the flick of his finger. In some hotels and casinos, users can do a range of things such as, watch videos, view maps, order drinks, play games, and chat and flirt with people between Surface tables.

Wikipedia said:
Microsoft announced in March 2009 that a new generation of Microsoft Surface code named Second Light was in development.

So when they're in their 3rd or 4th generation, it could be a very interesting machine to use.

DCstrX · Jun 17, 2009

yes but everyone knows microsoft, theyre going to go towards the general public sooner or later.

Lifeisabeach · Jun 17, 2009

Village Idiot said:
But the iPod and a Mac tablet don't have the features of being able to interact with objects placed on the screen. They have great touch features, but they still don't have the ability to count how much money is laying on them, or syncing to a device laid on them, or pretty much anything that the Microsoft Surface does that doesn't involve multi touch control. It's about the technology, not the package.

It's possible it could with some relatively trivial software coding and screen improvement, but at the size of its screen, I doubt there's much physical surface space for any meaningful amount of object interaction.[/quote]

They could put it in anything, this is a prototype and a demo. I mean, the original iPod was built like a brick and had limited functionality. Apple took it and upgraded it and installed it in a new smaller body and gave it greater functionality.

Again, for this conversation, we're discussing the table as presented by MS in the OP's video. At least I am.

As previous presentations I've seen on the device have said, it's not intended to be sold to the general public.

As per your own quote in your subsequent post, MS claims it'll be affordable to consumers in 2010. That's utterly laughable in my opinion, especially given the current price point. Nothing drops that quickly in affordability. I imagine they made that claim just to bolster the hype over the device. Surely even MS isn't naive enough to believe that will happen or even could so soon.

But their intended target is going to be businesses, and upscale ones at that. You're not going to see a Microsoft Surface booth at your local McDonald's. Maybe if you go to a really high ended restaurant or club that wants to wow their customers. I'm sure they'd spend the money.

So... it sounds like you agree with me then. Limited uses in business/industry.

cuhnool · Jun 17, 2009

I don't see a practicality either. Also, who in the heck is going to be doing service on that thing once it malfunctions or if it gets damaged? Surely we wouldn't want to send in the device that sits on our coffee table to remind us our wallet has been forgotten to MS and wait for about weeks before getting it back, would we?

And it seems that in the video, there really wasn't any graphical interface. So to simply look at your pictures, someone will have to move their arms around and scatter all of their pictures around to find what they want, and then use finger gestures to do all this zooming in and out, while someone with a computer only has to sit there and use their one finger to scroll a little ball and click a button, and see their pictures organized in small thumbnails in a grid pattern.

Something I see MS doing, making another toy. All it would really do would amaze your friends or relatives for about 10 minutes when they got bored playing with the "Paint" function. Again, unimpressed by Microsoft's attempts at expensive hardware. Please, stick to software.

Sorry for the cynical tone. I extend my apologies.

Village Idiot · Jun 17, 2009

cuhnool said:
I don't see a practicality either. Also, who in the heck is going to be doing service on that thing once it malfunctions or if it gets damaged? Surely we wouldn't want to send in the device that sits on our coffee table to remind us our wallet has been forgotten to MS and wait for about weeks before getting it back, would we?

And it seems that in the video, there really wasn't any graphical interface. So to simply look at your pictures, someone will have to move their arms around and scatter all of their pictures around to find what they want, and then use finger gestures to do all this zooming in and out, while someone with a computer only has to sit there and use their one finger to scroll a little ball and click a button, and see their pictures organized in small thumbnails in a grid pattern.

Something I see MS doing, making another toy. All it would really do would amaze your friends or relatives for about 10 minutes when they got bored playing with the "Paint" function. Again, unimpressed by Microsoft's attempts at expensive hardware. Please, stick to software.

Sorry for the cynical tone. I extend my apologies.

You guys are completely missing the point. This isn't being marketed or developed for home users or as a computer replacement. It comes with concierge software. Hotels, and restaurants, and casinos are using it. This is designed for being used to make life more convenient for eployees and guests of these establishment. The technology could be further advanced for other uses, but if you read the wikipedia quotes, you'll plainly see that they're not marketing this version of the device to have in you home.

And there has to be menus. How else would you setup programs and diagnose problems? Just because you don't see it in the demo doesn't mean it's not there.

Yes, I get it, this is a Microsoft product and you hate Microsoft. If people would look outside the fact that this is MS and look at the possible functionality a device like this could provide in the future or how the technology could be used for other things.

Apps · Jun 17, 2009

Village Idiot said:
You guys are completely missing the point. This isn't being marketed or developed for home users or as a computer replacement. It comes with concierge software. Hotels, and restaurants, and casinos are using it. This is designed for being used to make life more convenient for eployees and guests of these establishment. The technology could be further advanced for other uses, but if you read the wikipedia quotes, you'll plainly see that they're not marketing this version of the device to have in you home.

And there has to be menus. How else would you setup programs and diagnose problems? Just because you don't see it in the demo doesn't mean it's not there.

Yes, I get it, this is a Microsoft product and you hate Microsoft. If people would look outside the fact that this is MS and look at the possible functionality a device like this could provide in the future or how the technology could be used for other things.

Totally agree! It looks quite smart - and will help in shops and the like lots. I doubt it would go completely into mainstream use, like MS showed it being used as tables in restaurants etc, the most obvious reason being their cost.

Lifeisabeach · Jun 17, 2009

Village Idiot said:
You guys are completely missing the point. This isn't being marketed or developed for home users or as a computer replacement. It comes with concierge software. Hotels, and restaurants, and casinos are using it. This is designed for being used to make life more convenient for eployees and guests of these establishment. The technology could be further advanced for other uses, but if you read the wikipedia quotes, you'll plainly see that they're not marketing this version of the device to have in you home.

Your quotes clearly state that MS says they expect the device to be affordable in a consumer version come 2010. If by "consumer version" they mean something MUCH smaller, MUCH less powerful, and thus markedly different and less useful than the commercial version out now, then I suppose so. If not, then yes they do intend it for the home come next year.