"Media Pad" and the Future of Apple

According to this MacRumors story, Apple may be relasing a Media Pad device that can play/download music, photos, HD video and place calls. This gave me an idea...

Imagine, if you will, the Apple computing experience five years from now. I could see Apple moving ALL applications (this means Office, iWork, games, etc.) over to the current App. Store arcitecture. That way, all of your computers applications can be updated in the same way and bought/downloaded in the same way. This method would streamline installation and updating of apps, as well as reinstalling them on new computers. Seem like a credible idea?

How much will it cost. $10,000. lol
I just saved to get a new macbook....now this?
Apple just keeps upgrading.

That's just what happens in tech land, learn to live with the facts of life and don't whine over it.

I sold my 410 quid iPhone for 330 just so I can get the new one when it comes out. I basically lost 100 quid just so I can have the latest and greatest.

If this media tablet does come, and I am not too sure seeing as the Newton followers have been claiming Apple is on the brink of releasing one for years now, then I hope it runs a full fledged multi touch screen OS X and also has a 3G facility.

QDaMan said:

Imagine, if you will, the Apple computing experience five years from now. I could see Apple moving ALL applications (this means Office, iWork, games, etc.) over to the current App. Store arcitecture. That way, all of your computers applications can be updated in the same way and bought/downloaded in the same way. This method would streamline installation and updating of apps, as well as reinstalling them on new computers. Seem like a credible idea?

Click to expand...

Yes it does. As the workd is slowly moving the digital way. And they are trying to remove the hard media such as DVD's from the equation. And downloading everything this way would make things a lot easier. There is only 3 issues I see here.

1. What if some Apple users do not have the internet at home?
2. What if they do not have a credit card to pay for such downloads?
3. If said download is erased from the computer can you get it back withuot having to redownload and repay for it?

Still in theory it's a great idea but it needs a few tweaks before it'll work in practice.

the8thark said:

1. What if some Apple users do not have the internet at home?
2. What if they do not have a credit card to pay for such downloads?
3. If said download is erased from the computer can you get it back withuot having to re-download and repay for it?

Click to expand...

Those three issues are exactly what will keep the digital download "dream" from ever becoming a true reality. You always need to leave the chain open for those who don't have access or a credit card. If you don't you are limiting you user base and further expanding the digital divide.

Here are two more articles if anyone is interested.
Will Apple IPhone Update Bring a Tablet Announcement? - PC World
New Apple Gizmos Coming Exclusively to Verizon? - PC World

QDaMan said:

According to this MacRumors story, Apple may be relasing a Media Pad device that can play/download music, photos, HD video and place calls.

Click to expand...

The iPhone?

QDaMan said:

Imagine, if you will, the Apple computing experience five years from now. I could see Apple moving ALL applications (this means Office, iWork, games, etc.) over to the current App. Store arcitecture. That way, all of your computers applications can be updated in the same way and bought/downloaded in the same way. This method would streamline installation and updating of apps, as well as reinstalling them on new computers. Seem like a credible idea?

Click to expand...

The problem with this, aside from the aforementioned issues, is licensing. Apple would have to get distribution rights from companies it wanted to distribute software for. So, for example, you mentioned Office. Apple would have to get licensed by MS to distribute Office. I don't see this happening anytime soon.

baggss said:

Those three issues are exactly what will keep the digital download "dream" from ever becoming a true reality. You always need to leave the chain open for those who don't have access or a credit card. If you don't you are limiting you user base and further expanding the digital divide.

Click to expand...

Come on, man. You know you're just wrong, right? The concerns you raise are legitimate, but technology doesn't stop just because some people don't have internet access or a credit card. Also, virtually EVERYBODY has internet access, at least in the developed world, where you can at the very least travel to your local library. This is always where the 3/4G would come in. And frankly, the credit card concern is a nonissue. If people don't have a credit card or bank account, then how are they going to buy their computer in the first pace? This probably is most applicable to young children, whose parents should be in control of what apps they have installed anyway. Seems like a new kind of parental control.

But yea, the internet will eventually be entirely wireless, and probably unified over a 4G network, or some sort of optical system set up with hubs around the world.

Seriously, envision the world of computing in 5 years. Every 18 months, computing power doubles (though we are coming to an end of Moore's Law for silicon chips, we've pretty much pushed them as far as they can go in prototypes, so basically we're waiting for a feasible solution to quantum/optical/DNA computing), and this also tends to apply for related techs. I don't see lack of internet as being an issue. Maybe lack of ability to pay, but that's been an issue right along.

The third concern is also a nonissue, because it's fairly easy to tie personal info and machine info together and send them to the source. The problem that I foresee would be that if you had to swap drives (probably SSD), but that could probably be easily fixed with an ID tag bundled to another part of the hardware.

I remember when it was a luxury to have the internet. Now everybody and their mom has access.

I've been thinking about my 3 points.

1. What if some Apple users do not have the internet at home?

I agree with the above but I said credit card and not bank A/C as they are very different things. You need a credit card for online purchases. Best example. my parent, has a mac. Bought with cash a while ago from an apple reseller. But she has no internet. And no credit card. I know a lot of people without internet access. A solution would be the apple stores/resellers would have a direct app to dvd option. Where they can download the app to a dvd for you and you pay for it that way.

So the Apple store has no software in boxes anymore on display. Just a screen where you choose the software you want, download it at the store and burn it there and pay for it there. That's how I see the future. So it's download at home or instore.

2. What if they do not have a credit card to pay for such downloads?

Kind of what I said above. That would fix that issue too.

3. If said download is erased from the computer can you get it back withuot having to re-download and repay for it?

Just copy the systen the Wii uses. Each user has a log of what they have bought. And can redownload anything if they need to as it's already purchased on their account. And this Mac App store would check your IP to make sure you're downloading it on the same computer.

the8thark said:

Just copy the system the Wii uses. Each user has a log of what they have bought. And can re-download anything if they need to as it's already purchased on their account. And this Mac App store would check your IP to make sure you're downloading it on the same computer.

Click to expand...

I don't understand why Apple doesn't already do this for iTunes, I hear of many people having trouble moving their collection from one computer to the next by re-downloading it. I understand that means you could just log-in on someone else's computer and begin re-dling, but I feel it wouldn't be too hard to implement a system that knew when you had a song already downloaded on a computer. If you wanted your music on multiple computers you could just share it with the current shared library system, you'll merely have to sync your iPod with the original computer.

DarkestRitual said:

Come on, man. You know you're just wrong, right? The concerns you raise are legitimate, but technology doesn't stop just because some people don't have internet access or a credit card. Also, virtually EVERYBODY has internet access, at least in the developed world, where you can at the very least travel to your local library.

Click to expand...

You know you're just wrong, right? Assuming that all individuals have internet access is ludicrous, short sighted and uninformed. Pervasive internet access is still a ways off. Only ~75% of people in NA have internet access and this is the region with the largest internet using base. Europe only has ~49%. You have obviously forgotten about those who are too poor to afford internet access. As for the "go to the library" argument, this is just as bad. If you are poor and don't have a car, how are you supposed to get to the library? Bus? Sure, you could take the bus but for some, the bus is a big expense. Even if they could get to the library, it doesn't mean they will know how to use the internet since usage will likely be infrequent. In that case, can they really be called internet users?

Please, do some research next time when you make a claim like this. Assuming that middle class values, ideology, customs and lifestyles are pervasive is incredibly problematic and making an assumption that everyone has internet access is doing just that.

Stats: World Internet Usage Statistics News and World Population Stats

vansmith said:

You know you're just wrong, right? Assuming that all individuals have internet access is ludicrous, short sighted and uninformed. Pervasive internet access is still a ways off. Only ~75% of people in NA have internet access and this is the region with the largest internet using base. Europe only has ~49%. You have obviously forgotten about those who are too poor to afford internet access. As for the "go to the library" argument, this is just as bad. If you are poor and don't have a car, how are you supposed to get to the library? Bus? Sure, you could take the bus but for some, the bus is a big expense. Even if they could get to the library, it doesn't mean they will know how to use the internet since usage will likely be infrequent. In that case, can they really be called internet users?

Please, do some research next time when you make a claim like this. Assuming that middle class values, ideology, customs and lifestyles are pervasive is incredibly problematic and making an assumption that everyone has internet access is doing just that.

Stats: World Internet Usage Statistics News and World Population Stats

Click to expand...

You just saved me a whole bunch of time. Thanks!

By the way, I'd like to apologize to baggss, I kind of came across like a jerk, but it wasn't my intent.

the8thark said:

I've been thinking about my 3 points.

1. What if some Apple users do not have the internet at home?

I agree with the above but I said credit card and not bank A/C as they are very different things. You need a credit card for online purchases. Best example. my parent, has a mac. Bought with cash a while ago from an apple reseller. But she has no internet. And no credit card. I know a lot of people without internet access. A solution would be the apple stores/resellers would have a direct app to dvd option. Where they can download the app to a dvd for you and you pay for it that way.

So the Apple store has no software in boxes anymore on display. Just a screen where you choose the software you want, download it at the store and burn it there and pay for it there. That's how I see the future. So it's download at home or instore.

Click to expand...

Most (if not all) banks issue you an ATM card that doubles as a checking card, usually with a visa or mastercard stamp on it that works just as a credit card. I don't have a credit card, but I just used my check card to purchase my refurbed aluminum MB (which should be here by 3pm today! YEEEEAAAA!)

Your solution to the problem is also rather feasible. See, it wasn't that tough to find a workaround. Imagine what apple, the innovators that they are, could come up with!

2. What if they do not have a credit card to pay for such downloads?

Kind of what I said above. That would fix that issue too.

Click to expand...

Also as I said above... atm/debit cards come with a 16 digit credit card number now, so if said person doesn't have one and they really need one, they could go to their bank and ask to be upgraded to one of these cards.

3. If said download is erased from the computer can you get it back withuot having to re-download and repay for it?

Just copy the systen the Wii uses. Each user has a log of what they have bought. And can redownload anything if they need to as it's already purchased on their account. And this Mac App store would check your IP to make sure you're downloading it on the same computer.

Click to expand...

Yea, well this is good, but your IP can be hidden through your router, so I'm guessing there would have to be some sort of more advanced ID function, but I agree. Not too hard to work around this.

vansmith said:

You know you're just wrong, right? Assuming that all individuals have internet access is ludicrous, short sighted and uninformed. Pervasive internet access is still a ways off. Only ~75% of people in NA have internet access and this is the region with the largest internet using base. Europe only has ~49%. You have obviously forgotten about those who are too poor to afford internet access. As for the "go to the library" argument, this is just as bad. If you are poor and don't have a car, how are you supposed to get to the library? Bus? Sure, you could take the bus but for some, the bus is a big expense. Even if they could get to the library, it doesn't mean they will know how to use the internet since usage will likely be infrequent. In that case, can they really be called internet users?

Please, do some research next time when you make a claim like this. Assuming that middle class values, ideology, customs and lifestyles are pervasive is incredibly problematic and making an assumption that everyone has internet access is doing just that.

Stats: World Internet Usage Statistics News and World Population Stats

Click to expand...

I have done my research. I've taken classes on future tech and read a lot on the subject. In the technology world, 75% of people is virtually everybody. Technology doesn't stop just to save 25-50% of the populous. It may slow down its progress some, but it will keep going. The point was the post I replied to said "NEVER." Never say never. The downloadable app dream, as we were discussing, affects people who are already internet users. Most people who can afford a computer that can handle doing what we are talking about, now also subscribe to the internet. I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove other than to counter mine and failing to do so.

Tech moves forward whether or not EVERYBODY adopts it. As time progresses, the remaining 25% of people who do not have internet access in NA that you cited will gain more frequent internet access as the tech becomes cheaper and even more widespread.

Your argument didn't serve much purpose to the discussion.

75% of the population does not equal everybody. In fact, it's quite far from it. With NA having the greatest penetration, this credibility of your argument is weakened when you consider other regions.

I'm not saying that technology stops and waits for everyone as you said. This is no reason though to make the claim that the internet is virtually pervasive - everyone means 100% (or close to it) and not 75%.

My problem lies in your claims and your lack of references. Do you have any research to back up your claim that, "most people who can afford a computer that can handle doing what we are talking about, now also subscribe to the internet". Unlike computers, which are a one time cost (minus energy usage) and can be donated to individuals who can not afford one, ISP charges are recurring.

Assuming we accept 75% as just about everyone (84.3% for Canada, 72.5% for the United States), what about other regions? The United Kingdom only has 63.8% penetration and France only has 58.1% penetration. Japan, highly regarded as one of, if not the most, technologically advanced countries in the world only has 73.8% penetration. What I'm getting at is that an argument stating that, "virtually EVERYBODY has internet access", is highly problematic and arguably fallacious.

To bring this back to the topic, this will prove to be a probelmatic method of content delivery for those without internet access. There will likely always be a need for brick and mortar operations.

Sources: Canada Internet and Broadband Usage - Telecom Reports Statistics (Canada), United States Internet Usage, Broadband and Telecommunications Reports - Statistics (United States), United Kingdom Internet Usage Stats and UK Telecom Reports (United Kingdom), France (http://www.internetworldstats.com/eu/fr.htm), Japan Internet Usage Stats and Telecommunications Reports (Japan)

Okay, so maybe you disagree with how i worded my claim. The message still remains. I prefaced the whole statement by agreeing that they are legitimate concerns, however I also stated that I don't agree that those reasons will prevent the dream of downloaded media from ever becoming a reality, as stated by baggss. "Those three issues are exactly what will keep the digital download "dream" from ever becoming a true reality."

Let's look at some growth rates. Here is a survey from the NY Times conducted in 2003.
The link given by Columbia University to the original NY Times survey page appears to be broken, but they offer the data nonetheless. Here is the Columbia page. link

The survey - conducted by the Ipsos-Reid Corporation, a marketing research firm 0 was based on interviews last spring with 6,600 adults in 12 countries, in North America, South America, Europe and Asia. The results were released last week. The survey found that 54 percent of the population in the countries surveyed, on average, indicated that they had gone online at least once over the previous 30 days. In the United States, 72 percent of those surveyed were recent Internet users, up from 59 percent in 2000. Canada was second at 62 percent, up from 60 percent in 2000. Rounding out the top five were South Korea, 53 percent, up from 45 percent; Britain, 50 percent, up from 35 percent; and Japan, 47 percent, up from 33 percent.

Click to expand...

Now imagine the growth in the last 10 years, which is what I was trying to find but frankly don't care enough about arguing on the intarweb to tirelessly search for statistics proving what should be general knowledge, that internet use has grown drastically. Imagine ten more years from now, and tell me that internet access won't be available to virtually everybody in the developed world.

The tech will do what it wants to, it always does. New technology dictates the future of the society in which it is placed. If Apple or any company wants to go to a downloadable only software system, there isn't anything that is stopping them. They will do so, and in the meantime if they need to provide access to people who have difficulty, they will find a way to adapt. I'm not sure why you feel the need to waste endless amounts of time providing statistics that mean nothing to the overall argument.

the8thark said:

Yes it does. As the workd is slowly moving the digital way. And they are trying to remove the hard media such as DVD's from the equation. And downloading everything this way would make things a lot easier. There is only 3 issues I see here.

1. What if some Apple users do not have the internet at home?
2. What if they do not have a credit card to pay for such downloads?
3. If said download is erased from the computer can you get it back withuot having to redownload and repay for it?

Still in theory it's a great idea but it needs a few tweaks before it'll work in practice.

Click to expand...

wrong.

Solution 1: 3G.....?
Solution 2: You can buy iTune cards with cash at kmart or walmart or target... or F.Y.E. or any kind of store like that.
Solution 3: Backup!

The digital world just needs to hurry up. I'm waiting....

jcb815 lists some great strategies that are already in place to accomodate these issues even beyond what I had suggested. Although the 3g thing you'd still have to subscribe to, and I think that these guys are assuming that people without internet don't not have internet by choice (this is a category many people fall into, i.e. old folks who don't necessarily want to be bothered to learn new tech in their twilight years) and just can't afford to pay for it, which would make them assume that these people also can't afford to pay for a 3g connection.

DarkestRitual said:

Now imagine the growth in the last 10 years, which is what I was trying to find but frankly don't care enough about arguing on the intarweb to tirelessly search for statistics proving what should be general knowledge, that internet use has grown drastically. Imagine ten more years from now, and tell me that internet access won't be available to virtually everybody in the developed world.

The tech will do what it wants to, it always does. New technology dictates the future of the society in which it is placed. If Apple or any company wants to go to a downloadable only software system, there isn't anything that is stopping them. They will do so, and in the meantime if they need to provide access to people who have difficulty, they will find a way to adapt. I'm not sure why you feel the need to waste endless amounts of time providing statistics that mean nothing to the overall argument.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. Perhaps an alternative venue would be more appropriate for this discussion. That said, it doesn't negate the value of my logic. Ultimately, a digital distribution only method excludes the part of the population that doesn't have access on a regular basis to the internet.

There are four problems with the study you have listed that make me question the value of the results to this discussion:
1. It is based on a sample of only 6,600 people. While fairly significant from a social research perspective, the statistics I listed encompass the entire population.
2. Who was interviewed for your sample? For all I know, the participants in the study were all from middle class neighbourhoods.
3. Once over the previous 30 days? That could mean 10 minutes (once) or 90 hours (3 hrs/day x 30 days). What does this mean in terms of regular access?
4. Mine are also more recent (2003 compared to 2008).

I agree that technology is becoming more accessible to all individuals as cost decreases. That said, it is still expensive for a large part of the population. Think about cars. They have been around for more than 100 years but are still too expensive for a significant part of the population. Although technology (car or computer) gets better, it doesn't necessarily become more accessible.

To bring this back to the discussion topic for the thread, accessibility will likely still be out of reach for many in the years to come. The statistics are part of my argument illustrating that a digital only delivery method excludes those who may use computers but don't have access to regular (or "usable" - ie. dialup) internet usage.

So, in regards to your statement: "Imagine ten more years from now, and tell me that internet access won't be available to virtually everybody in the developed world." Internet access won't be available to virtually everybody in the developed world. Internet access won't be readily available to "virtually everyone" as long as poverty exists and as sad as I am to say this, poverty isn't going away any time soon.

DarkestRitual said:

The tech will do what it wants to, it always does. New technology dictates the future of the society in which it is placed. If Apple or any company wants to go to a downloadable only software system, there isn't anything that is stopping them. They will do so, and in the meantime if they need to provide access to people who have difficulty, they will find a way to adapt. I'm not sure why you feel the need to waste endless amounts of time providing statistics that mean nothing to the overall argument.

Click to expand...

You know your wrong, right?

So you fired back with your own statistics to prove your point? That makes sense.

I disagree that technology dictates the future of society. I would submit that technology is defined by society based on what society is will to accept t any given time. Lots of good technology has languished for years because we were not ready for it. Once we accept it , it may dictate how society s changed but anywhere in the process it can be rejected.

In the end, until mass free web access becomes a reality this is all a pipe dream. You can imagine otherwise form your comfortable seat but not everyone has, or can afford, what you assume is standard service you enjoy. You offered some semi-viable work arounds, but they don't bridge the digital divide enough to make your original idea work, sorry.

That being said, I never said those issues couldn't be bridged, I simply said that there is currently no viable way, or even a realistic plan, to do so. Until those problems are resolved for 98%+ of the worlds population, the idea reams simply a dream.