Conflicted Switcher

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First of all, I know I want a MacBook Pro. I've wanted one for as long as I remember. Also the fact that I want to be a web designer and the industry standard for designers is a mac persuades me to buy a Mac because sooner or later, I will need to know how t o use a Mac.

But I'm conflicted. I have a Windows desktop for quite a while now and want to make the switch. I can still do basic things on the desktop, but it was a pre-built so I can't upgrade any more, and it doesn't have enough memory for the apps I'll need.

Still a student with a student budget, I can only spend 3G on the laptop (and that is still expensive). Even with the student discount, the price is still a bit far-fetched. I've heard from colleagues and read on AppleInsider's website that Apple will come out with a new MBP soon. MacRumor's Buyer's Guide recommended I buy the MBP ONLY if I really need it, because it's approaching the end of its cycle. I've been told by others that I should wait for the new ones to come out. Is this a good idea to wait and how soon will the new one come out? But what's the point if the new one comes out and I can't afford it?

I mean, I don't need another computer simply for the sake of having another computer because I already have a functioning one. But at the same time, I feel I need this MBP because it will enrich my life better as a designer.

But even after this decision, I'm conflicted as to which model to buy -- the 15" or the 17"? The 17" does give me 30% more laptop screen space, the extra Hi-Res Glossy screen, and the resolution surpasses that of the 15". However, I'm a small person, and I'll be carrying it around with me, so wouldn't the 15" be more ideal for portability? And also the 17" will end up being $500 extra over budget.

I mention this because I'm thinking about getting TimeCapsule too, which sits at an additional $300. Is TimeCapsule even necessary? The laptop configuration I'll be getting is 200GB hard drive @ 7200rpm. Is that fast transfer speed? I know the apps I need takes up a lot of storage space, so is it ideal and practical to buy TimeCapsule too to back up my data?

So if I get the MBP at 17" and the 8GB ipod (with the student promo), plus TimeCapsule, I'll be paying $3750 upfront, then get the rebate later for the "free" 8GB ipod. But if I get the MBP at 15" and the 8GB ipod, plus TimeCapsule, I'll be paying $3330 upfront, and a savings of $299 after rebate (the ipod). BOTH of these totals are waaayy over my student budget, but the 15" sounds more practical money-wise.

I want to know what I should do before school starts next week and the end of the student promo on Sept. 15. Any advice, Mac veterans?
 
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Welcome to the boards, thanks for posting your concerns.

I do have a little trouble understanding exactly what your issue is. You say you have 3G as your budget, I am assuming this is 3 Grand, meaning USD3,000 (although grand is usually British?).

Anyway, if this is the case, the MBP is easily in your price range, even the 17". Tell me if I am missing something?

I don't understand your prices either. The 17" MacBook Pro (at NYU at least) is $2,500, way under your budget, and a time capsule with a discount still brings you in under $3,000. Are you maxing out the specs (4 GBs of RAM or something). If you're doing this, don't, because a) it's not necessary and b) you can upgrade the RAM using 3rd party suppliers for less than half the price.

Having said that, the time capsule is really not necessary, and a luxury item. A wireless router can be bought for $40 and a Firewire 800 external drive can be bought for a little under $200, more than adequate for backups.

As for whether you even need a Mac, that's your decision. Most people here, including me, would recommend one. However, I don't think there is any more or less advantage to designing web-sites on a Mac, than on a Windows PC.
 
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Yes, I am referring to 3G (USD$3,000) as the budget. I wanted to max out my specs b/c I'll be dealing with graphics intensive softwares. 4GBs of RAM is required to install and run the software. How and where can I get the RAM upgrade and can I do this myself, considering I am in USA? $3G is my max budget for the laptop, which doesn't include the software I need.

Also maxed out is the storage space. At 200GB, I'm compromising that with the 7200rpm, as I don't have much time to wait for files to transfer. I only want the 17" because of the resolution, but I will be carrying it around so 15" is better suited for my small build. TimeCapsule is ideal because I need to backup my data often, as design files take up tons of storage space. I'm planning to still use this laptop after I finish my schooling.

Doesn't MBP come with wireless? I already have internet network through Linksys at home but can I connect to that using the mac?

Is it true that there Macs don't get a lot of viruses? I'm so ready to switch to Macs for this reason too. I could just get a Dell XPS but I really don't like Vista. I want the best hardware for my money.
 
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Yes, I am referring to 3G (USD$3,000) as the budget. I wanted to max out my specs b/c I'll be dealing with graphics intensive softwares. 4GBs of RAM is required to install and run the software. How and where can I get the RAM upgrade and can I do this myself, considering I am in USA? $3G is my max budget for the laptop, which doesn't include the software I need.

There are currently no applications that require 4GBs of RAM, however if you want to upgrade to 4GBs, you can get the memory from Crucial or somewhere else. You'll save at least 50% and the memory is just as good (possibly better).

Also maxed out is the storage space. At 200GB, I'm compromising that with the 7200rpm, as I don't have much time to wait for files to transfer.

The only reason to need 7,200rpm is if you're working with live audio (i.e. live performances) or are constantly writing huge files, such as video. The time difference between 7,200 and 5,400 is seconds - really, losing 50GBs and paying a lot more money is not worth it for a few hundred miliseconds. Once you have booted up and loaded your apps, you'll barely notice the difference.

TimeCapsule is ideal because I need to backup my data often, as design files take up tons of storage space. I'm planning to still use this laptop after I finish my schooling.

Time capsule is best suited for passive backup, if you spend most of your time at a desk. Believe me, it's slow over wireless, so if time is really precious, you'll want to back up using firewire.

Doesn't MBP come with wireless? I already have internet network through Linksys at home but can I connect to that using the mac?

Yes you can, I misunderstood your wireless comment before, my mistake.

Is it true that there Macs don't get a lot of viruses? I'm so ready to switch to Macs for this reason too. I could just get a Dell XPS but I really don't like Vista. I want the best hardware for my money.

There are no known viruses at this point that impact OS X, so this is true. Leopard, in my opinion, is far superior to Vista.
 
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The only reason to need 7,200rpm is if you're working with live audio (i.e. live performances) or are constantly writing huge files, such as video. The time difference between 7,200 and 5,400 is seconds - really, losing 50GBs and paying a lot more money is not worth it for a few hundred miliseconds. Once you have booted up and loaded your apps, you'll barely notice the difference.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but this is of particular interest to me since I was planning on changing my hard drive to a 7200rpm one.

There's no difference in running applications (photoshop in my case) on a faster hard drive? How huge files are we talking about? I can end up with 50-60 mb images often, would there be any benefit to the 7200 rpm then?

Or would i just be better off sticking to the one i have and get a larger external HD instead for backup?
 
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Thanks Zoolook for your insights. And welcome NumberSix. In terms of RAM and transfer speed, I'll be needing to switch between multiple apps (Photoshop, Illustrator, Fireworks and Dreamweaver) at one time. As I am training to be a front-end web designer/developer, these are apps I use continuously. I feel you NumberSix, as my files do end up pretty big too.

I could just get the bare miniumum and then upgrade it myself. Upgrading would be in 3 parts: RAM, storage and Video card. Will the 512MB of graphics good enough for your Photoshop usage, NumberSix?

My biggest concern now is the timing...best timing to buy the MBP. I want to take advantage of the student promo, so I can get the ipod...but these rumors make me skeptical and guides tell me to wait. But I reasoned that, who cares if the new one comes out, esp. if i can't afford it? The only thing that may matter at that point that would make me care is that, the price may drop down *significantly* and I could've just waited another few weeks/months.

What then?
 
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AS Zoolook said crucial.com is your best bet for memory

THe graphics is fine for graphics needs, in fact it is more than enough for design apps so will not need upgrading

Again as Zoolook said, time capsule is an unnecessary luxury. Macs come with software called time machine, which will give you faster back-ups to a standard firewire external drive, saving you money

There is a lot of speculation that a new line of macs may be out in September. But apple do not let info leak out. That said, the line is due for an update but either way you will have a lovely Mac whatever you decide, and with Zoolook's advice, some change in your pocket
 
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Definitely listen to these guys and buy your RAM from a third party. I got my 4GB for $70 from newegg.
 
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In regards to will there be new MacBooks coming soon - we are expecting them either in September or January, really (I think January is more likely, to be honest).
There are rumours floating around that September 9th will be the date for the September event - this is the event they traditionally use to release the new iPods. It seems unlikely to me they will release new MacBooks at this time too, but is still possible.
If I were you - I would hold out a few weeks until we're a little in to September, then if nothing happens - go for it. But that's just me.
 
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What really is going to have a material affect on your machine?

Firstly Video RAM was mentioned, as in 'is 512MB enough'. For 2D applications, no more than a quarter of this will ever be used on a MBP screen, and perhaps half of this used if you're powering 2 external monitors. For 3D applications and games, this may be different, but no one has mentioned this so far.

In terms of real-world performance, the difference between a 7,200rpm and 5,400rpm drive, on a laptop, is about 20% in the most favorable conditions (highly fragmented files, with multiple read-write functions) and perhaps less than 5% is the worst conditions (continuous reads on large block files).

Just to demonstrate this fully:

An average 5,400 drive will have a seek time of 5.5 msecs (that's how long it takes to find a file) and a read speed of 540Mbits/sec.

An average 7,200 drive will have a seek time of 4.2 msecs and a read speed of 695 MBits/sec.

To put this into perspective, the 7,200 rpm drive would have to search for almost 800 files, to gain even a single second on the slower drive, and if you're saving a 2 GB file would be 23 seconds vs 29 seconds, or 7% faster. The smaller the file, the less likely there is to be a difference.

Now for audio performance, this does matter, because if you have 16 tracks kicking off at the same time, with a 20 msec latency allowance, suddenly this becomes important. Are you likely to notice the difference? Possibly, but you'll need a stopwatch to catch it.
 
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Thank you so much guys. These insights really helped me finalize my decision. I guess I could wait until Sept. 9th to see if the new model comes out. If it still doesn't, then I still have time to take advantage of the student promo.

It sounds like the transfer speed doesn't seem too much of a difference, between 5400rpm and 7200rpm. I guess I'm just a bit concerned about the RAM b/c I've been a Windows user for too long, and Windows hog up a lot of storage and RAM just to run its apps.

I won't be doing audio too much yet, but I may in the future, so I could always upgrade later. What is the max upgrade for the 15" MBP?
 
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Well, I HIGHLY suggest you don't get the Time Capsule if you're worried about price. A regular external hard drive will do all the same things (except the wireless backup, which is very slow anyways), for a much cheaper price, because you're not paying an extra like $200 to get the "Apple" brand.

Same things with the RAM, don't get the Apple brand RAM, you can save so much money by getting the crucial RAM, and it's so easy on their website. You just enter the model of the computer, and they show you what types of RAM work with your system. The delivery is fast, well packaged, etc.

Another thing you have to remember is the software: If you are doing any type of design work, the software is VERY expensive, and chances are that you will have to re-purchase all your software for the mac (although some companies have a free (or relatively small fee) upgrade or switching program if you switch to the mac). In addition, not all companies make their programs for both Windows AND Mac, so you may have to find alternatives to applications that you have been using (or else use bootcamp, parallels, vmware fusion, etc., which again, cost money, and then on top of that you have to purchase a copy of Windows)

I also do some design work, and I sympathize with you and understand. I really wish you all the best. I switched back in October 2007 and I haven't looked back.
 
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First, while Zoo is right about individual exchanges between those hard drive speeds, you have to remember that those times add up. Outside of a media center system I'd always suggest a 7200rpm drive over a 5400.

Secondly, you can't upgrade the graphics in a MBP, but I doubt what it comes with will limit you in any way
 
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Thank you Zoolook for that explanation!

I think i'll just get a larger 5400 in that case :)
 
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Wow, i've also been thinking about getting a MBP (projected buy date is January) and all these q'stions asked here were the same I have/had. I also use design softwares that are being mentioned in this topic, and was thinking of doing the same thing, going with a 4gb ram and 7200rpm. Not completely my fault, my last 3 have been windows Desktops and when buying windows you def go with 7200 and 4gb (although u can upgrade the ram via third party). So naturally when customizing the MacBook Pro, my thought process was "more is better" lol. Ooo the bad influence of Windows.

Some additions...
I actually have been checking out both the 15" and the 17" at the store and I love the size and mobility of the 15" but since I always have multiple apps running and eventually will want to get 3D programs running on MBP (once I save up the money to get it..aiming for sometimes in January... yea I do research way ahead of time lol) I decided I would need all the real estate (as I have/am used to a 22" widescreen with my Windows) so I will end up going with a 17".... If only they come out a MBP with a fold-out screen on the 15" that would extend out to say 19" or something lol. The smaller laptops are so much easier to carry around.
To Simplysae I would say go to the store and pick up the laptops, see how it feels, see which one u like... I would say for you, the 15" should b fine, no point in spending extra for a 17" if the 15" could do the same.
 
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Tvith, thanks for that personal advice. I had just visited the local Apple store (spent a good hour there), just feeling, playing and asking questions about the MBP. I've decided to go for the 15" (no use spending the extra $$ on the 30% of space that I could use). I'm still sad though b/c the resolution wouldn't be that cool. But then again, the maxed out resolution on the 17" makes everything tooooo tiny.

...After all of that, you'd think I've made up my mind now, right? Well, now I'm conflicted again. Granted that I'll get $200 off the price tag for being a student, a Mac genius recommended that I start off on the low end of the MBP and customize it to my needs. Since I can upgrade my own RAM, I didn't need to buy it from Apple -- save some $$ there. But I'll need a bigger HDD, so I'll just have to spend the extra $50 for an additional 50GB of storage (from 200GB standard to upgraded 250GB @ 5400rpm). Also the Mac genius told me that if I upgrade the HDD myself, it would void the warranty. Is this true?

I don't mind sticking with the 2.4GH processor. Doesn't seem to make much of a difference from 2.4 to 2.5GH anyways...My biggest concern now is the graphics card. The low-end MBP only has a 256MB graphics card, but I may end up needing 512MB for my heavy graphics usage. Belunos mentioned that graphics cards can't be upgraded, which is a drag. The low-end MBP, even after customizations and the addition of the 8GB Ipod Touch, would come up to about $2300 (with taxes). And then buying the RAM upgrade will make it just perfect in regards to budget.

Should I just stop complaining and get the compromise -- the middle MBP, which allows me to have 2.5GH processor, 250GB HDD (standard), and 512MB graphics card. Well this is just dandy, but the base price (even with the student discount) already sits at $2300. That plus the $299 for Ipod Touch + tax = $2800 upfront. Then afterwards, I'll get $299 back in rebates for the Ipod.

All in all, the low-end MBP will cost me $2000 even, and the middle MBP will cost me $2500, a $500 difference. This doesn't include the money that will be spent for RAM upgrades. The only thing is that the low-end MBP needs to be customized and can only support 256MB graphics card...looking at budget, the low-end is the better choice. However, it's lacking on the graphics card. Meanwhile the middle MBP has all that I'm looking for as standards, but at a $500 steeper price tag.

So which one should I choose? OMG, and I haven't even started talking about software costs and protection plans. Do I even need the AppleCare Protection plan?
 
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so if you buy the RAM your self, apple will install it for you? and if so this wont void the warrenty? I'm in pretty much the same situation you are by the way. But the difference is i did horrible in high school and started late on college and i have no idea what i want to do even though i have a strong interest in computers. i've been thinking about just settling for the MB but i have this gut feeling that i could go in the direction where a higher end notebook is needed and then ill be stuck with the MB. I also want to get the free ipod with the Mac but i'm waiting till the 7th to see what new stuff is coming out. About the protection plan i have heard that it is worth it i forgot where i read it on this forum but someone talked about how they spilt liquid on their keyboard twice and who ever handled their claim set it up so it cost them no $ to get it fixed or replaced can't remember which
 
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MGufman, no, you can buy the RAM yourself and install it yourself. The Mac genius I spoke with said it was easy to change the RAM.

If you have the AppleCare Protection plan, it will only protect the MBP if it's NOT your fault. For example, if the keyboard doesn't work anymore, you can get it fixed for *free* (even though you've paid for the Protection plan, so technically it's NOT free). But if you dropped the MBP (which too many people do), it's your fault and you have to pay to get that fixed, I've heard.

But I read that, if you buy the MBP now, you don't have to buy the Protection plan at the same time. You'll receive 30 days complimentary customer service, and then the warranty is good for up to 1 year from the date of purchase. I was going to wait until I'm closing in on that 1 year limit to buy the plan, if I do.

I'm not even sure I want to buy the plan, which costs $240 from Apple. I currently have Windows XP and I've only had to reformat the HDD a couple of times in the 6 years that I've owned it (due to virus issues). I'm not computer hardware savvy, but I've dealt with ALL of my computer issues myself (or with very good techy friends).

After my experience of owning a Windows desktop and knowing that there aren't much viruses out (or any) for Mac, I don't think I'll be needing the Protection plan much...considering I know that if there is any damage to the MBP, it's most likely my fault -- I'm clumsy xD. Besides, I don't wanna pay $240 for a service that I most likely won't ever need.
 
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thanks simplysae that clears up a lot, would you happen to know how many sticks of RAM a MPB can hold because if you only get the 2GB of ram from apple they give you 2 1GB sticks so that would mean if you wanted to get 2 more gigs of ram you would have to buy 2 more 1 GB RAM sticks so that would be 4 doesn't seem like it can hold that much.
 
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You don't have to pay for Apple Care up front. You have up to 1 year from the purchase date to get it. With that said, I do think that you should get it. My cousin had a macbook and he dropped it or something and he damaged the HDD. He had his macbook for 2.5 years and he sent it to apple and they fixed it for him and sent it back to him at NO COST TO HIM.

MGufman, The MBP has 2 ram slots so the two 1 gigs would have to go if you want 4 gigs.

I was on a budget also when I got my iMac, and I decided to upgrade the video card and the HDD. I didn't need the 4Gb of ram yet, so I ended up buying it from Crucial and saved myself $100. I will probably never utilize the video card to its full potential, but I don't know that yet so I upgraded it thinking sooner or later I'll be running apps that will utilize it(remember when no one thought they could ever fill a 10gb HDD?)
 

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