What to use: Firewire or USB?

Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
36
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Your Mac's Specs
Macbook Pro 15" 3rd gen 2.4 GHz, 256 vid 4gb ram 250 hdd
I have an external that I'll be double partitioning for TM and in FAT. I'm wondering if I should be using USB or Firewire 400? I've heard that even though USB is rated higher in terms of bursts, Firewire 400 has more "throughput." Is this true and what does it even mean?
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
96
Reaction score
2
Points
8
I have FW and USB externals. I dont notice much difference at all with file transfer speeds.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
1,301
Reaction score
62
Points
48
Location
The home of the free and the land that did for Bra
Your Mac's Specs
24"iMac, 15"MB-Pro, MacBook, G4 iMac, PM G5 2x2Ghz, G4 iBook & Some PCs
I have an external that I'll be double partitioning for TM and in FAT. I'm wondering if I should be using USB or Firewire 400? I've heard that even though USB is rated higher in terms of bursts, Firewire 400 has more "throughput." Is this true and what does it even mean?

Generally speaking Firewire is faster because a FW device has to be capable of 400 MBps whereas a USB 2 device only has to be capable of "up to" 480 MBps.

"up to" is usually interpreted by manufacturers as the lowest they can get away with.

Having said that if a device is specified as FW400/USB 2 then it would make sense that both interfaces would work at the same speed, i.e instead of two separate chipsets on the device they would use one chipset capable of both specifications so it would probably work at 400 MBps for both.

I always make sure I purchase dual specification devices as that is the best way of ensuring that it will work just as well on my PCs as on my Macs.

If you really want the maximum speeds go for FW800/USB 2 specified devices, these will typically give you 800 MBps for FW and 480 MBps for USB.

Be especially wary of "burst" speeds as this relies heavily on the capabilities of the motherboard and associated drivers, maximum burst speeds are only attainable where the manufacturer of the motherboard has allowed for it (iow they have allowed enough buffer RAM in their design for it, Apple "Pro" specifications for example do).

Amen-Moses
 
OP
H
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
36
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Your Mac's Specs
Macbook Pro 15" 3rd gen 2.4 GHz, 256 vid 4gb ram 250 hdd
Generally speaking Firewire is faster because a FW device has to be capable of 400 MBps whereas a USB 2 device only has to be capable of "up to" 480 MBps.

"up to" is usually interpreted by manufacturers as the lowest they can get away with.

Having said that if a device is specified as FW400/USB 2 then it would make sense that both interfaces would work at the same speed, i.e instead of two separate chipsets on the device they would use one chipset capable of both specifications so it would probably work at 400 MBps for both.

I always make sure I purchase dual specification devices as that is the best way of ensuring that it will work just as well on my PCs as on my Macs.

If you really want the maximum speeds go for FW800/USB 2 specified devices, these will typically give you 800 MBps for FW and 480 MBps for USB.

Be especially wary of "burst" speeds as this relies heavily on the capabilities of the motherboard and associated drivers, maximum burst speeds are only attainable where the manufacturer of the motherboard has allowed for it (iow they have allowed enough buffer RAM in their design for it, Apple "Pro" specifications for example do).

Amen-Moses

Awesome thanks. I suppose since I have FW400 I'll just use it, and I can always use USB for a windows machine. I was wondering if anyone has noticed distinct performance differences.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
323
Reaction score
10
Points
18
Location
Connecticut
Your Mac's Specs
Macbook Pro 14" M1 Pro, 16GB, 1TB, OS 12.6.9
Awesome thanks. I suppose since I have FW400 I'll just use it, and I can always use USB for a windows machine. I was wondering if anyone has noticed distinct performance differences.
I have a Western Digital Mybook Studio 750GB External which has USB 2.0, FW400, FW800, and ESATA. I've timed a number of transfers to compare the FW400 with USB2.0.

FW400 was faster in every instance, and not by a small margin. I didn't write things down. But I recall a 1GB transfer taking about 20 seconds longer for the USB to complete. I did it a number of times, with different files, always with similar results.

Hope that helps.

-Nick
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
96
Reaction score
2
Points
8
. I was wondering if anyone has noticed distinct performance differences.

Guess you didnt read my post :|

edit - just did a test with a stopwatch. Same 1.37gb folder on a USB external and FW external. Copied to my iMac hdd.

USB took 44.0 seconds, FW 43.2. Slight advantage for the FW, but nothing you'd ever notice in real life use.
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm

http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

I can find test after test that backs those up including my own controlled tests. Not going to argue with anyone but Firewire is faster and sometimes by a large margin when doing file transfers over USB 2.0. Do not go by the numbers 480 Vs 400. They do not tell the true story about USB 2.0. Yes USB 2.0 will do 480 in Burst but not even close in Sustained large file transfers.

I do agree it's nice to have a Dual interface drive though so you can plug in into any system.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
96
Reaction score
2
Points
8
http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm

http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

I can find test after test that backs those up including my own controlled tests. Not going to argue with anyone but Firewire is faster and sometimes by a large margin when doing file transfers over USB 2.0. Do not go by the numbers 480 Vs 400. They do not tell the true story about USB 2.0. Yes USB 2.0 will do 480 in Burst but not even close in Sustained large file transfers.

I do agree it's nice to have a Dual interface drive though so you can plug in into any system.

Find all the tests you want if saving .8 seconds is important to you.
 
OP
H
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
36
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Your Mac's Specs
Macbook Pro 15" 3rd gen 2.4 GHz, 256 vid 4gb ram 250 hdd
Guess you didnt read my post

No I did, was just seeing if anyone else did. Appreciate the test, I'll just default to Firewire for now. At this point, why not...
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
96
Reaction score
2
Points
8
I realize there are plenty of tests out there that compare FW to USB, and most of those probably show that FW is the faster of the 2. Even the test I ran proved that. My point was that the difference is not as significant as some of those test show and that other posters want you to believe.

If you are moving large files alot FW would be the obvious choice. And by large I mean gigs and gigs of files. But the average user seldomly moves files that size on a consistent basis so there is really no clear cut winner, FW or USB. They both perform just about the same for standard, every day use.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
1,301
Reaction score
62
Points
48
Location
The home of the free and the land that did for Bra
Your Mac's Specs
24"iMac, 15"MB-Pro, MacBook, G4 iMac, PM G5 2x2Ghz, G4 iBook & Some PCs
Even the test I ran proved that. My point was that the difference is not as significant as some of those test show and that other posters want you to believe.

Depends entirely in the device and manufacturer. To meet "USB 2" specification a device doesn't have to be able to work at 480 but to meet FW 400 spec it must, a 50MBps device would still be "USB 2" but if sold as "FW400" would be in breach on the specification.

My Lacie drive works well on both interfaces but other devices don't.

Amen-Moses
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
236
Reaction score
2
Points
18
Location
Oxford, UK
I prefer Firewire to USB2 for larger files.

Also, OS X can be run from an external Firewire drive - I have several copies of Panther and Leopard (in different incarnations) which I use.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
68
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Your Mac's Specs
Whitebook 2.2, 4gb RAM, 200gb 7200RPM HD
For a somewhat self-realizing, non-quantitative approach to the question ask yourselves: Why do MiniDV and DVD video cameras allow (mostly) only FW transfer to the computer?

Is it because FW has a sustained speed faster than USB2 or because there is some covert plot by all the camera makers and Apple to use FW? ;D
 
M

MacHeadCase

Guest
http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm

http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

I can find test after test that backs those up including my own controlled tests. Not going to argue with anyone but Firewire is faster and sometimes by a large margin when doing file transfers over USB 2.0. Do not go by the numbers 480 Vs 400. They do not tell the true story about USB 2.0. Yes USB 2.0 will do 480 in Burst but not even close in Sustained large file transfers.

I do agree it's nice to have a Dual interface drive though so you can plug in into any system.

That has been my findings as well : FW is faster every time and the average speed on FW is higher than on USB 2.0. They say USB 3.0 should change all that. We'll see...
 
M

MacHeadCase

Guest
For a somewhat self-realizing, non-quantitative approach to the question ask yourselves: Why do MiniDV and DVD video cameras allow (mostly) only FW transfer to the computer?

Is it because FW has a sustained speed faster than USB2 or because there is some covert plot by all the camera makers and Apple to use FW? ;D

If the movie editing industry standard is FW (FW800 I would think, unless they are still using SCSI in some cases ?) there must be a plus side to using that type of interface. Maybe like you say the sustained speed is better or maybe the data transfer is more reliable ? I really wouldn't know but there is a reason why the pros use FW though. :)
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
945
Reaction score
16
Points
18
Location
Annapolis, MD
Your Mac's Specs
Macbook, 2.2 GHz, 4GB RAM
Hi all,

Maybe a little off-topic, and I know there's nothing can be done right now, but I'd like to see eSATA added to the Mac for backup. I use it on my PCs for backup and it runs 3-4 times faster than USB and maybe 2-3 times faster than firewire. And with SATA drives in the Macbooks, it seems to make good sense.

Hey Apple, maybe a thought for the future Macs...

Noel
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
2,766
Reaction score
232
Points
63
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Your Mac's Specs
15" 2014 MacBook Pro, i7 2.5Ghz, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD; iPad 3, iPhone 6
I realize there are plenty of tests out there that compare FW to USB, and most of those probably show that FW is the faster of the 2. Even the test I ran proved that. My point was that the difference is not as significant as some of those test show and that other posters want you to believe.

You seem to be spending a lot of energy trying to convince the board that there is little or no difference between the two, but you're just plain wrong.

Firewire is faster in almost every conceivable way - your test was probably bottle-necked by something else on your system, hence the close result.

Firewire is faster, because it works like a P2P network and also because the firewire controllers are independent from the rest of the system bus. In other words, you could daisy chain 10 FW drives and transfer 10 1 GB files from one to the next at the same time, and still get a transfer rate in the range of 35MB/Sec. If you did that with USB 2, you'd get a transfer rate closer to 2MB/Sec, because ALL the data would have to go to the host bus, and then back again to the drives.

Even when there is only one drive involved, the FW drive will use less CPU, won't clog the system bus at all and will sustain it's transfer rates. For instance if you're encoding video to an external drive, you really don't want your CPU spending half its time keeping the USB bus happy. Why do you think almost all professional external media peripherals have a FW connection?
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
68
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Your Mac's Specs
Whitebook 2.2, 4gb RAM, 200gb 7200RPM HD
We're all fellow Mac users here.
There is little reason for flames to be starting, eh?

We all see things from our own perspective.
Zoo..you of all I've seen posted here with Lord Buddha as your avatar should know this. ;D
(though I understand where the frustration comes from)
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
That has been my findings as well : FW is faster every time and the average speed on FW is higher than on USB 2.0. They say USB 3.0 should change all that. We'll see...

I hope USB 3.0 is faster. I can use the speed! :D I am not a hater of USB, I just use what works the best for my usage.

Of course there is FW800 also. Only issue with either USB 3 or FW800 is you MHC and I will be left behind with our iMac G5 and USB 2.0/FW400! Oh well, Progress as they say! :D
 
M

MacHeadCase

Guest
Now that the broom has swept away the dust, can we get back to the discussion please ?

Anybody else with a duck problem here ? :|

Oh finally ! Civilized conversation ! :)

Yeah, trav, our iMacs will be left behind... *Sniffles*
 

Shop Amazon


Shop for your Apple, Mac, iPhone and other computer products on Amazon.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Top