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Apple is in trouble following stock hit

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Lisa, surprisingly (or maybe not) the move from my old iPhone 7 to the iPhone 8 and then to the the Xs was relatively painless. The facial recognition and change in gestures was the biggest change, but both work so well that I hardly notice the change any more. I do have to remember the "old" way when I work on my wife's iPhone 7 max. She, like you, hates change, so she's sticking with her old phone until it breaks. I, on the other hand, chase technology like a hunting dog chases rabbits...
 
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Jake, thanks for all the info, and the link. I thought it was only available through the Apple retail stores.

We still have another year on our current contract, so will look into it then.
 

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I am the kind of person who keeps the phone for years so I guess I will stick with paying full price.
 

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Cr00zng, I think you may have missed the point. In the Upgrade Program you are eligible for an upgrade at the 12 month point. So the way to play the game is to get a new iPhone in that plan, pay the $50/month for 12 months, then trade that one in on the next year's new phone, also at $50 (maybe adjusted for inflation), and so on. You are only paying $50 month for a new phone, always the latest version and always covered by AC+. Technically, the cost is covered by a zero interest loan from Citizens bank, but when you send in the old one at the end of the first year, that loan is cancelled and the new one takes over. I've made that transition once already, plan to do it every year. So I'm only paying about $600/year for a brand new iPhone every year. Eventually the string runs out and I'll have to pay two years, but given how many years I may be able to daisy chain new phones, that extra set of payments may not be that significant in the total cost over the time I run it. Frankly, I'm hoping they shift to straight rental before I have to pay that extra year so I can avoid paying it altogether.

So, unlike your plan where the cheapest you can get is a three year commitment to a US Carrier at $500/year, using the same phone for those three years, I have a one year commitment that will cost $600, includes AC+, and will have a new phone every year. I kind of like my arrangement.

That depends on the needs, age of the person, financial circumstances, etc. In another world, different folks, different strokes....

I no longer have loans, mortgage, etc., and nowadays, rather purchase things outright. My i8 plus will last for another two - four years at least and have no intent to replace it until it breaks. If I'd 20-30 years younger and need the leading edge technology, I'd probably do the same as you do, instead of agreeing with dtravis7... :Smirk:
 
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Well, when I get old, maybe I'll do the same thing, but I'm only 73, so I like to have the latest tech. You are right about everyone having their preferences, just don't be to upset if Apple goes all rental in the future.
 
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Well, when I get old, maybe I'll do the same thing, but I'm only 73, so I like to have the latest tech. You are right about everyone having their preferences, just don't be to upset if Apple goes all rental in the future.

Good bless you and wish you a long life... :Cool:

While I am not quite there yet, working in IT security for 20+ years, it pretty much disillusioned me about security and IT in general. Technology still interest me, especially the storage that's still the bottleneck in performance, but not to the level that I'd need the "bleeding edge".

Whatever the latest "iX" I'll have at the point, when Apple goes rental, I'll keep it until it dies and see what's available on different platform(s). I somewhat doubt that Apple will do that, declining cash purchase isn't a good business practice in my view. And it's one thing to rent services and software for longer time period and it's other to rent hardware for the same period.
 
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In support of Jake's observation that Apple is changing its business focus, this article, released today might be worth a glance: https://www.kirkville.com/****-freezes-over-for-apple-again/

Ian

Or, one can look at this like...

Alternatively, Apple admits that there isn't enough market interest for Apple TV and as such, trying to recuperate its initial investment, by extending the offer to different platform(s). Much like they did with iTunes for Windows. This offer is an Apple service, that does not have hardware requirements for Apple devices. Barring software update to add Apple TV to existing Samsung, and other brands of TVs, this offer may take some time to have an impact in this market. TVs aren't purchased frequently, to my recollection the average time for replacing a TV is between seven and eight years.

This is a service and Airplay 2 is software and presumably some hardware and licensing solution bundle. While Apple had changed its focus somewhat, in my view it's cashing in on its technologies, stretching it out to "i" devices seems a bit premature. Not to mention that it isn't really "rental" for iPhones, more of a creative financial solution that mainly benefits Apple. Unless of course, if someone wants the latest and greatest from Apple. For those people the trade off is well worth for.... :Smirk:
 
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Well, it's not too much of a leap to see Apple announcing that all that makes an iPhone an iPhone (iOS environment, the iOS universe, the Apple ecosystem, whatever you want to call it) will be made available on any smartphone with certain hardware minimums, as a service. Much like the Apple TV services being available on certain smart TVs. Not like Microsoft licensing the operating system, but a service to gain access to the ecosystem with whatever hardware you want to bring to the party. They could make it an "all or none" proposition, where if you opt in, you are all in, and your mobile essentially becomes an iPhone by having all other operating systems removed and iOS installed. As long as you pay the rent, you get the service. Stop paying and on the next connection to the mothership the OS is removed. iPhone as a Service. The alien hardware would have to have firmware that could be written to to change the personality, which is essentially what LG/Samsung/etc are doing for the AppleTV as a service. Admittedly, AppleTV is a bit easier to manage because it is a portal to streaming more than anything else, but it's not a huge tech leap from that to viewing a mobile phone as a portal for streaming (including voice) as well.
 
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While iOS for Android smartphones is possible, under the umbrella that anything is possible, but not without caveats...

Both Android and iPhone use ARM CPUs, or rather SoC, with some differences. The Apple devices with iOS use the Apple designed/modified ARM SoC and as such, porting iOS to an Android smartphone, that uses the ARM SoC without modification, is not a simple task. Can it be done, certainly, but the chances are that the hardware based security of the iOS is probably out the window. There are other issues as well...

In order to modify the firmware/OS on the Android based smartphone requires "rooting" the the device, since the owner of the device has no access to the "root". And even then, proceed at your own risk. Can this step be part of the upgrade to iOS? It could, I've seen Android malware that made rooting the device a child play. The question is, will Apple stand behind this type of update, if and when things go haywire? I do have some ideas what Apple will do...

There are also the users of Android platform, who selected this platform and during time accumulated a large number of apps and got accustomed to the Google world. Would they just go ahead and do that, just to have iOS and purchase more apps? Saying that it is doubtful is an understatement...

Don't take me wrong, certainly Apple needs to make its services available on other platforms, that's what everyone does and so should Apple. But in my view, iOS is not going to be offered anytime soon for non-Apple devices.

Even, if there's such offer from Apple, the Android platform OEMs are pretty much locked in to Google's version of Android:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...rolling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/3/

It would not take long for Google to extend the the requirements for OEMs to disable iOS installation....
 

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Don't take me wrong, certainly Apple needs to make its services available on other platforms, that's what everyone does and so should Apple. But in my view, iOS is not going to be offered anytime soon for non-Apple devices.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. One reason why "Hackintoshes" are so popular with folks who love to tinker and experiment with macOS is that Apple has persisted over the years to keep their OS on Apple hardware only. There was a short period of time during Steve Job's absence that the Mac operating system was cross licensed but when Jobs returned as CEO he immediately ended that.
 
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Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. One reason why "Hackintoshes" are so popular with folks who love to tinker and experiment with macOS is that Apple has persisted over the years to keep their OS on Apple hardware only. There was a short period of time during Steve Job's absence that the Mac operating system was cross licensed but when Jobs returned as CEO he immediately ended that.

Other than in my post, I referenced iOS and not macOS...

While there is a "tradition" for Hackintoshes, there's no such thing as "HackiOS". The closest thing one can do is an iOS interface overlay for Android, or iOS launcher:

https://sguru.org/install-ios-in-android/

And that's an app, not an OS...
 

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There was a short period of time during Steve Job's absence that the Mac operating system was cross licensed but when Jobs returned as CEO he immediately ended that.

I still have two of those 1996-1997 "puppies" (non-Apple manufactured computers)...gathering dust somewhere!;)

- Nick
 
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All I'm saying is that Apple blinked. By offering Airplay on smartTVs as a service, they have uncovered a crack in the garden wall that has kept other hardware from using the services from inside the garden. Now, will they widen that crack, or close it up? Nobody knows, but by opening this crack they have opened up a potential to have all of AppleTV as a service, competing with Roku and Amazon, but with zero hardware required. Just sign up, pay a monthly fee and you have everything you could if you owned an AppleTV box. If they are willing to give up making that hardware, then maybe other hardware could also be phased out and services replacing it. Time to stop thinking in terms of "android" and "iOS" phones and think of picking an environment as a service. Want FaceTime, Messages, access to the iTunes store? Select iOS as a service. Want the android environment, store, etc? Pick Android, or Windows, or whatever is offered. Apple can sell hardware designed to make maximum use of the ecosystem while at the same time opening that ecosystem to other hardware, with the limitations that the "alien" hardware may or may not be able to fully participate in the ecosystem depending on how close to an iPhone it is.

Another paradigm breaker is going to be 5G cell service. At those speeds, the "phone" can be almost a dumb terminal, with the entire ecosystem in the cloud. So you get a "dumb" smartphone (champion oxymoron!) and connect to the cloud through that 5G service to gain access to the "smart" part of the phone. No 5G WiFi? No smarts, just a phone with maybe a camera and enough memory to hold a few pictures you take, or an app with a little bit of data. 5G available? Smartphone! Pick your environment--Android, iOS, Windows, whatever, and go. Once 5G is widespread enough to support that conveniently, the first company to go to dumb smartphones will capture a huge portion of the market. At those speeds, maybe all you need will be a wearable (watch? clothing?) that connects. Again, IAAS.

The biggest challenge is going to be where 5G is not available. I currently make a two hour drive to visit my brother in hospital in Charlottesville, VA. On the way, I get into a thirty-minute long black hole with zero cell coverage. Normally I stream music as I go, but when I hit the hole, I shift to music stored on the phone, or a podcast I listen to that is downloaded to the device. When I get to where I know the service is good again, I go back to streaming. With a "dumb" smartphone it will be a challenge to allow me to cover that 30 minutes. Maybe keep all the apps in the cloud, then when I get close to my dead zone, I download from the cloud a music player and music I like. That could even be automated into a "favorite" button, or even an automatic function whenever the signal drops below a certain level. Lots of ways to make it work reasonably well.

And for those who say "never," let me remind you that in the early days of cell phones you had to select between CDMA and GSM in the hardware. Now you just get the phone and let the sim card drive it. And with esim, it's getting even easier to change the personality of the phone. So why not with the OS?
 
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Apple will blink, if there's a pile of cash either in the form of yearly payment, looking at you Google, or monthly rentals and/or membership fees. That improves the cash-flow and I don't blame them for that, business is business. And I do agree with you about the opening up the "walled garden" in limited fashion at the beginning for "public" consumption. Maybe Apple will be able to retain the "walled garden" for the Apple device users, even if the garden has no wall for the public, we shall see...

For most services, the 4G cell connection is already sufficient, the widely available true 5G is still years away, but coming. I have designed and implemented Citrix based local/remote access for applications, that worked just fine over 4G. All it required a browser and for remote access, a VPN connection. Yes, this was a "private cloud". I've also done WMware server on local network for Windows OS and applications. I don't think it's far fetched to add any OS to this solution...

We just disagree with the time frame involved for getting to the point that you've described. And no, I did not say never, I've stated possible, takes long time, etc., along that line....
 

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Update on Apple stock price. When this thread was started about 7 weeks ago (January 4, 2019)...Apple stock price was around $142.50. There was concern that the drop in Apple stock price was due to Apple & Apple's CEO not doing the right things.

Today 7 weeks later (February 22, 2019)...Apple stock price is trading at about $172.50 ($30 dollars higher). Figure out what that is on an annual basis...and it's pretty darn good. As I and others in this thread have mentioned...Apple is a great place to invest your cash for the long-haul!:)

- Nick

p.s. Sure...Apple stock's 12 month high was about $225 back in September, 2018. The stock market has been in a bear market for a few months now...and many stocks have seen declines...and now many stocks are rebounding.

If investors had purchased Apple stock 7 weeks ago @$142.50 when there were concerns...they'd be very happy now! Buy low...and hang onto it for the long-haul!:)
 

pigoo3

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About 10 months ago when this thread was started...Apple stock price was in the $140/$150 range...and the CNN reporter quoted in post #1 was trying to suggest "Apple is in deep trouble". Here we are 10 months later & Apple stock is trading at all time high's ($243 close today)!

Imagine investing any sum of money...and 10 months later getting an over 60% return on investment!:)

But then again this time of year is usually a good time for Apple stock to peak (it did last Fall as well)...and the January time frame tends to be a lower time.

- Nick
 
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That's interesting and might be used for investment purposes.

Pretty much similar scenario had been in place for the last three years; canyons at the beginning and peaks at the end of the years:

appl.jpg

I'll check early next year, if this trend continues. If it does, I may just rearrange my investment portfolio; 60% return on investment in 8 - 10 month for 1K stocks is really good. Plus, there's quarterly dividend of ~$.75 per stock.

Disclaimer: I do not own APPL stock, yet; this is not intended as an investment advice
 

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