Charging and Battery

[Yuimaru]

True or false.

I am under the impression that when a laptop is on charge, that the charger is simultaneously providing amperage for the operation of the laptop and charging of the battery - separately and simultaneously. If this is true, there would be a distinct advantage to keeping the laptop tethered when possible to extend the batteries life which if I understand correctly, it is irreplaceable.

I thought I had heard this explained as described some years ago. ???

 

[pigoo3]

...if I understand correctly, it is irreplaceable.

Can't answer your question fully...we don't know what model it is.

Technically we don't even know if it's an Apple computer (you only mentioned "when a laptop").

- Nick

 

[Yuimaru]

Can't answer your question fully...we don't know what model it is.

Technically we don't even know if it's an Apple computer (you only mentioned "when a laptop").

- Nick

Mac Air, build early 2015.

 

[Randy B. Singer]

True or false.

I am under the impression that when a laptop is on charge, that the charger is simultaneously providing amperage for the operation of the laptop and charging of the battery - separately and simultaneously. If this is true, there would be a distinct advantage to keeping the laptop tethered when possible to extend the batteries life which if I understand correctly, it is irreplaceable.

I thought I had heard this explained as described some years ago. ???

Apple has changed their batteries many times in the last decade or so (from lead-acid to nickel-cadmium to Lithium Ion), and with each of these changes Apple has changed their care guidelines quite a bit. They have also changed their recommendations for care of lithium ion batteries several times.

With the more recent laptops, such as yours with Lithium Ion batteries, Apple's most recent recommendation is to not leave your laptop on the charger all the time, and instead use the laptop off of the charger as much as possible to "keep the electrons moving." They also recommend never fully discharging the battery, and never storing it fully charged or fully discharged.

Now....lithium ion batteries have smart circuits (with their own logic chip) to make sure that they charge at the proper rate and to make sure that they don't get into a runaway mode that might cause them to ignite or explode. Lithium ion batteries don't have a memory effect like the older nickel cadmium batteries did, so they don't require a routine reference charge as they did (a full discharge followed by a full recharge). However, most lithium batteries (for all applications, not just computers), if you do some research, still require a reference charge occasionally, not to condition their batteries, but to make sure that their smart circuit is working perfectly. Apple used to recommend such a reference charge three or four years ago to tune up their smart circuits, but then stopped. It's controversial, but some folks still recommend that you give your laptop with lithium ion batteries a reference charge once a month or so to optimize performance and extend the batteries' life. I can't tell you if this is beneficial or not.

Have a look at:
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-bad-to-keep-my-MacBook-Pro-plugged-in-24-7

 

[Yuimaru]

I guess ever changing technology not only obsoletes equipment but theories as well and the best thing a person can do is to keep abreast of the changes and resist the urge to just flip the cover open and start using it, not getting much further than referencing - quick start guides. I wasn't always that way. You gave me good reason not to be.
thank you very much for your effort and the time you took to provide me (and the forum is to gain by this as well) of such a detailed response. I will also reference the link you provided as well.
Thank you
Al (Yuimaru)

 

[MacInWin]

With the more recent laptops, such as yours with Lithium Ion batteries, Apple's most recent recommendation is to not leave your laptop on the charger all the time, and instead use the laptop off of the charger as much as possible to "keep the electrons moving."

If Apple is saying that, it's pure BS. The physics and chemistry of LiIon batteries does NOT need to keep electrons moving, and using the battery off charger increases total cycles of the battery, which is a major factor in battery life overall. Once a month to recalibrate the circuits is for the reporting software, not the management software of the battery, which is why it's controversial. All LiIon batteries start to decay two years after manufacture, albeit slowly at first, and the more cycles you have on the battery the faster the roll off can be. However, the battery can be cycled so many times before the decay is really apparent that if you get a new system every 5 years or so, the battery should last nicely, unless you take it all the way to depletion every day. But leaving it on the mains power all day is not harmful, either.

Here is a good article from a knowledgable battery and charger manufacturer: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

 

[Raz0rEdge]

On macOS Sierra and my 2016 MBP, you can see that my battery is fully charged and power source is the adapter as opposed to the battery. So the battery isn't going to drain in this situation.

There are varying theories of batteries based on technologies on how to maintain a good life. Some laptops will always run off the battery while charging it if the power plug is plugged in. Others will charge the battery to 100% and run off mains and then routinely switch to running just on battery until about 75% charge and then go back to charging the battery while running on mains and so on..

Generally, as long as you use the battery to some extent, being largely plugged in with a laptop isn't going to cause you issues.

My previous 2013 rMBP was using with the power adapter plugged in the bulk of the time during the day, but then when I go from home work or was going into meetings I'd run on battery and let it roll down. Over the course of 3+ years that I had it, the battery maintained a good charge and ran easily for 8 hours without too much troubler on airplane trips..

 

[Randy B. Singer]

If Apple is saying that, it's pure BS.

I look forward to your letter to Apple telling them that.

There is some really excellent discussion, and personal measurements, on the topic of Macbook battery maintenance here:
http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/17303/what-are-the-best-practices-for-battery-longevity
Unfortunately there is no definite takeaway from the whole of the discussion.

 

[pigoo3]

I look forward to your letter to Apple telling them that.

I look even further to Apple's reply!

But seriously. These battery discussions can get very technical sometimes. And as time goes by...it can be difficult to keep up with the latest & greatest info on what's best for a rechargeable battery.

- Nick

 

[MacInWin]

I look forward to your letter to Apple telling them that.

Heh! Randy, there aren't enough stamps to send Apple a letter every time they sling BS.

I'm going to trust a battery and charger manufacturer over Apple on how to maintain a battery. Apple's guidance on that has been wrong for the last ten years. Originally, it was to fully deplete the battery once a month for battery health and to avoid "memory" issues with the battery (maybe true in NiCad days, or NiMH, but not Lithium), then when challenged on that they changed to say it was also for recalibration of their software (which was the original and only reason for the recommendation). Now it's to "keep electrons moving," which is just laughable.

Bottom line, lithium batteries are most reliable if you keep them in the 99-50% range of charge, avoid deep discharges and high temperatures. And avoid overcharging them with cheap chargers that just keep pumping in voltage and drive them to the theoretical maximum 4.2v/cell. (Good chargers stop short of that and use a trickle process to overcome any internal battery rolloff.)

 

[IWT]

Nobody knows for sure.

Apple is sure that their current advice is as sure as their advice was in the past.

Others are not so sure as Apple that their advice is sure.

Perhaps their is no sure answer, but common sense seems a sure good way to proceed; but I'm not sure.

Ian

 

[chscag]

LOL, Ian! Are you "sure" that all that is "sure"?

(I got the humor in your post Ian, just poking some fun at you.)

 

[ferrarr]

You can start here, https://www.apple.com/batteries/. Take a look at the Maximizing Performance link.

 

[RadDave]

Nobody knows for sure.

Apple is sure that their current advice is as sure as their advice was in the past.

Others are not so sure as Apple that their advice is sure.

Perhaps their is no sure answer, but common sense seems a sure good way to proceed; but I'm not sure.

Ian

LOL, Ian! Are you "sure" that all that is "sure"?

(I got the humor in your post Ian, just poking some fun at you.)

BOY - we've gone over this so often that I sometimes feel like the image below - ;P

Do we keep the cycle count low, exhaust the battery occasionally to reset the calibration, stir up the electronic juices, or look at the voodoo cards? Has been much fun reading this thread, and like Ian, I have no definitive answer - Dave
.

 

[pm-r]

and like Ian, I have no definitive answer - Dave

Are you really sure you're so sure…???

It might be worthwhile checking the advice from the battery makers themselves, so maybe some good info can be had…??? Like maybe start here:

http://techlife.samsung.com/tips-extending-life-smartphone-battery-1303.html

And then this:
Charge Regularly

To get the most out of your smartphone's battery, you'll need to charge it properly. Most smartphones have a lithium-ion battery that lives longer when charged regularly. Unlike the nickel batteries used in older phones, lithium-ion batteries do best when kept above a 50 percent charge. Repeatedly allowing the battery to drain fully may shorten its life and decrease its overall capacity. If this happens, you'll need to charge the battery more frequently and it may last only a few hours before needing a charge, for example.

Your battery will also perform better if you don't let it charge to 100 percent, so take it off the charger at about 80 to 90 percent capacity. Leaving the phone connected to the charger when the phone is completely charged may lower battery life if you do it repeatedly.

http://techlife.samsung.com/tips-keep-smartphone-charged-1059.html







- Patrick
======

 

[RadDave]

Are you really sure you're so sure…???

It might be worthwhile checking the advice from the battery makers themselves, so maybe some good info can be had…??? Like maybe start here:

http://techlife.samsung.com/tips-extending-life-smartphone-battery-1303.html

And then this:
Charge Regularly

To get the most out of your smartphone's battery, you'll need to charge it properly. Most smartphones have a lithium-ion battery that lives longer when charged regularly. Unlike the nickel batteries used in older phones, lithium-ion batteries do best when kept above a 50 percent charge. Repeatedly allowing the battery to drain fully may shorten its life and decrease its overall capacity. If this happens, you'll need to charge the battery more frequently and it may last only a few hours before needing a charge, for example.

Your battery will also perform better if you don't let it charge to 100 percent, so take it off the charger at about 80 to 90 percent capacity. Leaving the phone connected to the charger when the phone is completely charged may lower battery life if you do it repeatedly.

http://techlife.samsung.com/tips-keep-smartphone-charged-1059.html

Patrick - we've all read most of these links many times and have quander over exactly what to do - your quote above simply adds more 'mumble gumbo' to the conversation - appears that there is no definitive advice here, just opinions? - Dave

 

[Randy B. Singer]

Heh! Randy, there aren't enough stamps to send Apple a letter every time they sling BS.

I'm going to trust a battery and charger manufacturer over Apple on how to maintain a battery. Apple's guidance on that has been wrong for the last ten years.

I know, right? Those knuckleheads at Apple sure are incredibly stupid. They don't know anything about the batteries that they spec'd from an outside supplier, or the charging regulation software that they wrote themselves and put on the IC that they make themselves.

If only they had learned something from the tens of millions of those laptop batteries that they have made and sold, maybe they might have gotten a handle on how they work in the hands of customers.

It's lucky that there are third parties with experience with...not exactly the same batteries and software, but somewhat similar...to extrapolate from and correct Apple on how their own products work.

I don't know why a close to trillion dollar company is so dim. They really should get their act together. I don't know how they stay in business.