Thinking of leaving Macs.....

[Grey Area]

Hi All-

I know, I know, I can't believe I'm writing this. I've been a Mac user for close to 20 years, please don't label me a heretic. The truth is that while I absolutely prefer the Apple OS to Windows anything, I just don't think the new Macs are competitive with current high end Windows machines such as HP's Spectre. At similar prices points, Macs have older and slower chips, less memory, less battery life and no touch screen (I personally think the touch bar is a joke, and not a good one). Apple is still charging a premium price for a less than premium product. I feel like they are just taking advantage of us and take for granted their loyal following. This absolutely does not not sit well with me. Problem is, I just can't pull the trigger on a Windows machine.

I know I can't be the only one who feels this way and I'm wondering what you all, the experts think. Thanks a lot for your input.

 

[McBie]

Welcome to the forums.

To some extend, I understand where you are coming from. Apple is no longer the fit fighting, agile company it was before.
My personal belief is that the future of Apple is not in Macbooks nor MacOS, but Smartdevices and IOS.
You are absolutely right when you say that we pay top dollars ( or Euro's ) for a less than top product. That used to be different 5 years ago.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers ... McBie

 

[badshoehabit]

Similar view in today's Guardian (UK). https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/07/mac-windows-pc-macbook-pro-microsoft-surface-book

I'm only nine months into my current MBP but wonder whether I will be able to stump up the cash for another when it comes to the end of its viable life (presuming that it outlives me!;D). But I like the OS very much.

 

[lclev]

At work my job title is Media Coordinator - which means all videography, graphic design and IT (computers and network) work is mine - yeah! I have both Mac and Windows computers to deal with. I still have an older Windows video editor that I use daily and my main editor is a Mac Pro which also get used daily. And yes, to get everything done I need two and sometimes wish for three.

I do understand your frustration. While I personally don't like touch screens I do have one at work, an all-in-one Dell that our secretary uses that has a touch screen and she loves it. I never think to use it when I have to work on her computer as I hate finger prints. As for the new MB Pro - I was disappointed too. I just do not understand the need or idea behind the touch bar. I have even traveled to the Apple store to play with one and that did not convince me of it's usefulness. I have heard the battery life is not good but then I read posts from others who say it is great. Either way at this point in the technology age it should be at least 10 + hours - IMO.

As for comparing what you get in a computer - Windows versus Mac - and using purchase price as a guide is not a valid comparison. First, with Apple you are paying for quality of the product and service. Just try getting some of the computers from Windows vendors serviced without involving mailing it in. IMO - quality of build is much better with Apple. If you want to get that quality in another vendor I have found you have to go to their business line - especially with HP and Dell - and it is still mail in repair service.

All that said I have one more point - Windows 10. And if you have used it for any length of time that would be all I need to say. But since you do not indicate if you have used W10, here is my thoughts on it. I do not like it. I have more update issues that render either the computer or an app useless until I track down the issue. Add to that the fact you can not opt out of update and the problem compounds. Microsoft forces them even if you use the deferred option. I have also found the interface is not a responsive (drag and drop of windows especially) when compared to W7 and for me, it is a huge annoyance. And I must not forget to remember the constant battle with malware - viruses, trojans, toolbars, etc.

So I guess my question for you is - what are your needs that you feel an Apple computer can not meet? I checked out the HP Spectre. That is one thin beautiful looking laptop. But no touch screen and supposedly a trackpad that is not on par with Apple's trackpad. But when comparing any computer to another beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Do I think the new MB Pro is a disappointment - it would not be my choice but I am not in the market for one so I can wait to see what the future might bring. After 35 years in computers I have had the fun of seeing lots of innovation and a lot of flops.

But if you wish to give Windows 10 and HP a try - go for it.

Lisa

 

[Grey Area]

Welcome to the forums.

To some extend, I understand where you are coming from. Apple is no longer the fit fighting, agile company it was before.
My personal belief is that the future of Apple is not in Macbooks nor MacOS, but Smartdevices and IOS.
You are absolutely right when you say that we pay top dollars ( or Euro's ) for a less than top product. That used to be different 5 years ago.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers ... McBie

Hi McBie, thank you for your insights. I have no issue paying top dollar, if I think I'm getting a superior product. My motto is buy once, cry once. I just no longer think MacBooks are a superior product. Apparently, through their own arrogance, Apple thinks their new machines are worth considerable sums. It's this arrogance and complacency that may hurt them in the near future.

 

[Grey Area]

Similar view in today's Guardian (UK). https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/07/mac-windows-pc-macbook-pro-microsoft-surface-book

I'm only nine months into my current MBP but wonder whether I will be able to stump up the cash for another when it comes to the end of its viable life (presuming that it outlives me!;D). But I like the OS very much.

Hi Sue,

Thanks for the link, that was an interesting story for sure. The writer confirmed a lot of my concerns and I think nailed it when he wrote "the least bang for your buck in recent memory."

 

[Grey Area]

At work my job title is Media Coordinator - which means all videography, graphic design and IT (computers and network) work is mine - yeah! I have both Mac and Windows computers to deal with. I still have an older Windows video editor that I use daily and my main editor is a Mac Pro which also get used daily. And yes, to get everything done I need two and sometimes wish for three.

I do understand your frustration. While I personally don't like touch screens I do have one at work, an all-in-one Dell that our secretary uses that has a touch screen and she loves it. I never think to use it when I have to work on her computer as I hate finger prints. As for the new MB Pro - I was disappointed too. I just do not understand the need or idea behind the touch bar. I have even traveled to the Apple store to play with one and that did not convince me of it's usefulness. I have heard the battery life is not good but then I read posts from others who say it is great. Either way at this point in the technology age it should be at least 10 + hours - IMO.

As for comparing what you get in a computer - Windows versus Mac - and using purchase price as a guide is not a valid comparison. First, with Apple you are paying for quality of the product and service. Just try getting some of the computers from Windows vendors serviced without involving mailing it in. IMO - quality of build is much better with Apple. If you want to get that quality in another vendor I have found you have to go to their business line - especially with HP and Dell - and it is still mail in repair service.

All that said I have one more point - Windows 10. And if you have used it for any length of time that would be all I need to say. But since you do not indicate if you have used W10, here is my thoughts on it. I do not like it. I have more update issues that render either the computer or an app useless until I track down the issue. Add to that the fact you can not opt out of update and the problem compounds. Microsoft forces them even if you use the deferred option. I have also found the interface is not a responsive (drag and drop of windows especially) when compared to W7 and for me, it is a huge annoyance. And I must not forget to remember the constant battle with malware - viruses, trojans, toolbars, etc.

So I guess my question for you is - what are your needs that you feel an Apple computer can not meet? I checked out the HP Spectre. That is one thin beautiful looking laptop. But no touch screen and supposedly a trackpad that is not on par with Apple's trackpad. But when comparing any computer to another beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Do I think the new MB Pro is a disappointment - it would not be my choice but I am not in the market for one so I can wait to see what the future might bring. After 35 years in computers I have had the fun of seeing lots of innovation and a lot of flops.

But if you wish to give Windows 10 and HP a try - go for it.

Lisa

Hi Lisa,

Thank you very much for a very well thought out reply, I appreciate your advice. I'm in finance, so my needs are pretty simple. In fact just about any computer would meet my needs. Lots (unfortunately) of Power Point presentations, lots of web based applications and spreadsheets. Then of course the typical "home" tasks, like managing family pictures etc. A Mac would certainly handle this with ease, but to get what I want (as opposed to need) I'm looking at the $1500 MacBook Pro. Compared to the HP Spectre X360 which would be about $300 less, but has more memory (16 gig v 8 gig) and a faster i7 7th generation processor.

I agree with you on the touchscreen and I don't even know how much I would use it. But I like drawing and taking handwritten notes on my iPad, so I think this feature would come in handy.

With respects to the updates, I completely agree. My office computer runs Windows and I hate it. In fact I am known in the office for saying "one day I will run into Bill Gates and I'm going to punch him in the face". There have been more days where I wanted to toss my computer out the window than I can count. But my understanding is that 10 is a more stable system. In this area, Apple has a clear advantage and is the only reason I'm even hesitating to buy a Windows machine. Although I can recall having to bring my iPhone to the Apple Store twice after iOS updates.

I guess in the end I hate being taken for granted and taken advantage of and I feel this is what Apple is doing. Value is in the eye of the beholder, and I just don't think Macs are a value any longer. Thanks again!

 

[Grey Area]

Lisa,

This is the HP to which I was referring.

http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-spectre-x360---13-w053nr-x7v21ua-aba

 

[chscag]

Nice machine but adding more memory (16 GB) and a larger SSD (at least 512 GB) is going to jack that price up fairly close to a MacBook Pro 13" with TouchBar. Having used HP computers at work and in ministry, I'm not impressed with their quality or support. Perhaps they've improved in the last several years? However, it still runs Windows and that is a big turn off for me.

 

[Grey Area]

Nice machine but adding more memory (16 GB) and a larger SSD (at least 512 GB) is going to jack that price up fairly close to a MacBook Pro 13" with TouchBar. Having used HP computers at work and in ministry, I'm not impressed with their quality or support. Perhaps they've improved in the last several years? However, it still runs Windows and that is a big turn off for me.

Hi Chscag-

The HP configured as you describe is $1300, a MacBook Pro 13" w/o touchbar is $1500 and has 8 gig and 256GB storage. The feedback on HP support is helpful, thanks.

 

[Slydude]

I used my first Apple II in either 1981 or '82 and have used some variation of Apple gear (Apple II or Mac) almost daily since about 1988. One thing has been constant for me. The processor speed ratings have never been a good indication of how much I can get done with the machine. Numerous times I've found my A[[le gear performing comparably to Win boxes which on specs alone should be able to run circles around me.

My computing needs are modest and involve mainly day-to-day tasks such as work processing, internet, and email. I've been known to do some photoshop and video work but nothing exceptional. My one complaint about the current hardware direction from Apple has been the fact that most of the current lineup can no longer be updated easily, if at all, when additional storage/memory is needed. I'm pretty sure this trend is driven by customer research/data though. If my PC using friends are any indication most people upgrade by buying new gear not adding memory/internal storage. There was a time when Windows using buddies asked about hard drive/memory upgrades often. Now, not so much.

 

[chscag]

Hi Chscag-

The HP configured as you describe is $1300, a MacBook Pro 13" w/o touchbar is $1500 and has 8 gig and 256GB storage. The feedback on HP support is helpful, thanks.

I actually meant the non touch bar model. But am glad to hear that HP support has improved. By the way, the non touch bar model 13" MacBook Pro only has two USB-C ports which is really a drawback. The HP is better equipped with ports. But still runs Windows. ;D

 

[Grey Area]

Hey Slydude, nice to see another "seasoned" guy around. My first Apple was the llc back in the mid-80's. My needs are a lot like yours. But at $1800 is a bit much to replace every few years. Good point about them being faster than comparable PCs. Thanks.

 

[chscag]

If my PC using friends are any indication most people upgrade by buying new gear not adding memory/internal storage. There was a time when Windows using buddies asked about hard drive/memory upgrades often. Now, not so much.

There are really some nice PCs out there but at a premium price. The Dell Alienware models and Sager models are an example of top of the line PCs and compare in cost to the MacBook Pro models. Like I mentioned above, I'm not fond of HP anything after experiencing them at work and at a ministry I worked with. Their support at the time was terrible but it's good to hear they've improved.

The new TouchBar model MacBook Pros are either loved or hated - depending on who gives the review. Nothing new about that though.

 

[Grey Area]

I actually meant the non touch bar model. But am glad to hear that HP support has improved. By the way, the non touch bar model 13" MacBook Pro only has two USB-C ports which is really a drawback. The HP is better equipped with ports. But still runs Windows. ;D

And therein lies my dilemma.......Windows.......I don't know if I can deal with it.......

 

[Grey Area]

Plus, the regular MacBooks have Intel's much slower M series chips.

 

[Slydude]

Hey Slydude, nice to see another "seasoned" guy around. My first Apple was the llc back in the mid-80's. My needs are a lot like yours. But at $1800 is a bit much to replace every few years. Good point about them being faster than comparable PCs. Thanks.

How often do you replace your systems? I don't generally go less than 5 years. I've still got a functional '08 MacBook Pro that is running and could do most of the things I do well though its sowing down for some things and cannot run the current OS. Its had a few updates/upgrades over the years though.

We'll see if I can get 5 or more years out of my 2015. If I can, I figure that even with upgrades I'll have spent about $2 per day not counting electricity and replacement hard drives needed for backups.

 

[Grey Area]

How often do you replace your systems? I don't generally go less than 5 years. I've still got a functional '08 MacBook Pro that is running and could do most of the things I do well though its sowing down for some things and cannot run the current OS. Its had a few updates/upgrades over the years though.

We'll see if I can get 5 or more years out of my 2015. If I can, I figure that even with upgrades I'll have spent about $2 per day not counting electricity and replacement hard drives needed for backups.

My current MacBook Pro is an '09 or '10. Like yours, it's just getting slow and we spend a lot of time looking at the pinwheel of death. I planned to replace it early last year, but opted to wait until the new Macs were announced. Since then I've just been avoiding the decision since it's not an easy one. But now my wife wants action. Ahhh, first world problems....

 

[pigoo3]

At similar prices points, Macs have older and slower chips, less memory, less battery life and no touch screen (I personally think the touch bar is a joke, and not a good one). Apple is still charging a premium price for a less than premium product. I feel like they are just taking advantage of us and take for granted their loyal following. This absolutely does not not sit well with me. Problem is, I just can't pull the trigger on a Windows machine.

I know I can't be the only one who feels this way and I'm wondering what you all, the experts think. Thanks a lot for your input.

You've gotten lost in the forest my freind. When it comes to CPU's, GPU's, amount of RAM, etc...Apple has almost always trailed behind the "Windows World". Or at best only kept pace. Where has Apple's strength's almost always been over the years??:

- Stability of the hardware.
- Stability of the OS.
- Many times introducing newer technologies before the Windows world (then the Windows world copies this if the new technology works out to be successful).
- Don't have the virus & malware issues the Windows World is plagued with.
- And MOST importantly...the Mac OS experience itself.

Doesn't really do you any good to have latest & greatest fancy CPU's, GPU's, most RAM, etc...if the computer is not stable, has virus's & malware, and the OS stinks to use. And just ask most any Windows user about all of the irritating updates from Microsoft.

If Windows computers & Apple computers had the exact same Pro's & Con's...and the only difference was the quality/performance of the hardware...then I would be first in line to get a brand new 2017 Windows computer! But the experience is not the same on each platform. I'm not saying Windows computer's are "bad". It just the user experience is not the same.

- Nick

 

[pigoo3]

My current MacBook Pro is an '09 or '10. Like yours, it's just getting slow and we spend a lot of time looking at the pinwheel of death. I planned to replace it early last year, but opted to wait until the new Macs were announced. Since then I've just been avoiding the decision since it's not an easy one. But now my wife wants action. Ahhh, first world problems....

If you purchased an '09 or '10 Windows laptop computer. Do you think that you would still be using it in 2017 (7-8 years later)??...doubtful. Another positive for Apple. You tend to get more years out of an Apple computer than the average Windows computer. A comparative "cost factor" many users don't consider.

Theoretical example. If you have to purchase two Windows computers in the same span of time as an Apple computer is useful for...that's a big cost. Or any other ratio of Windows computer purchase's to Apple computer purchase's in the same time span.

- Nick