Server: will a Mini suit my needs, and if so, which?

[Kaham]

Hey guys,

About 4 months ago, I've made the switch from an old XP desktop to a Macbook Pro. I'm really satisfied with this machine, but still I find myself turning on my PC nearly every morning. The reason: storage!

Ever since the Macbook, I have been using the PC more or less as a LAN-server, which is very inefficient in terms of power usage. Moreover, a lot of things are not working as I had hoped.

For these reasons I am considering either the Mac Mini (one of the normal models, unsure which yet) or the Mac Mini w/ OSX Server. I am wondering which you would recommend, and why? Or should I just c:/format my XP machine and run Ubuntu? (I'd rather not, since this probably costs a lot of power, and the thing is just too big).

Heres the key features I need to have: Sorry for the huge wall of text, I am just trying to eliminate as many questions as I can on forehand

- iTunes server: I've already looked into several NAS solutions, all claiming to have an iTunes server. However, after trying the Firefly streaming server, I found that this does not give the full iTunes features (genius playlists etcetera), so I'll be needing a server that at least runs a client of iTunes, so I can stream that to my Mac.
- iTunes webserver(?): If possible it would be really neat if this streaming functionality would also work over the web. I often find myself away from home (at the university or in the train) without anything to listen to. It would be cool if I could stream my music library to my Macbook (I've got wifi at the campus), and if possible even to my iPhone (Macbook has no connection in the train, and no tethering is just meh!).
- Time machine destination: I like being completely wireless, so it would be nice to be able to use one of the servers disks as a backup destination. (This is why I am alternatively considering Ubuntu… that should be able to handle AFP).
- Fileserver: Apart from the remote music library, I might want to put pictures on the server (does iPhoto allow that?) and it would be nice if I could, for instance, share some files over the internet too, for use as a dedicated fileserver for project groups which involve working with classmates.
-Printserver: for the reason of being wireless, a printer will be attached to the server.
- Remote access(?): I'll need to update iTunes playlists every now and then, so it would definitely be a plus if I could do this from my Macbook, instead of only on-location. I saw some movies about the Server version being remote admin'ed, does this also work for the ordinary Mini?
- And maybe other services, like torrents will be added later on. That is still to be decided.

So what I am mainly concerned about:
-Is the standard Mini able to provide everything I need, or am I better off buying a Server edition?
-Storage: The mini's (especially the non-server ones) do not have a very impressive amount of storage (500Gigs at max, if I'm correct), so which way of external storage is most energy efficient and fast (usb/firewire)? (Moreover, does the addition of external disks greatly increase power consumption? I still want to be more energy efficient than my PC, if it is to give me benefits).

Hopefully you guys can steer me in a right direction. I am not sure I'll be able to pick the proper solution on my own.

 

[stwb]

Hi Kaham,

Everything that you have listed is available using OS X Server, although not sure about iTunes webserver? [but there are options available from 3rd party developers: pulpTunes(pulptunes.net) & HookUp(dotpod.net)]

I personally run an old MacMini G4 using OS X Server 10.5 at home. So one of the new MacMini Servers would be ideal for you.

You can partition the drive so that one part is used by time machine for backing up client machines, and within the other partition(s) you could set up 'Share Points' for other uses. Or you could get yourself an external RAID setup (personally I wouldn't go for anything less than 3 drives for data redundancy), which can then be setup the same way.

For more info on RAID levels take a look >HERE<

Remote Access is not a problem, it's part of the Admin Tools included with OS X Server. These can be installed on any Client Mac.

Just a note: if you get the MacMini Server you will need an external DL Superdrive to use for the initial install, as it doesn't have an internal one, but after that it's not need.

Hope this helps

 

[Kaham]

First off, a major thank you for the reply. You definately cleared up some things here, making the choice somewhat easier.

there are options available from 3rd party developers: pulpTunes(pulptunes.net) & HookUp(dotpod.net)

I personally run an old MacMini G4 using OS X Server 10.5 at home. So one of the new MacMini Servers would be ideal for you.

That sounds like a fair solution. If all else fails I can always use a FireFly client for internet streaming, I guess. The internet streaming does not have to be very advanced.
Have you by any chance ever measured how much power your Mini consumes on average?

You can partition the drive so that one part is used by time machine for backing up client machines, and within the other partition(s) you could set up 'Share Points' for other uses. Or you could get yourself an external RAID setup (personally I wouldn't go for anything less than 3 drives for data redundancy), which can then be setup the same way.

For more info on RAID levels take a look >HERE<

I am well aware of RAID levels, and this is also one of the main reasons why I would not use a normal Mini, I think. Just one HDD isn't that secure, although I could always back it up.

I am however still in dubio if the server offers major advantages. The two setups I am considering:
1) Use the Mac-mini in a RAID0 (Yeh, unsafe, I know), while attaching a 3 or 4 TB FW drive for all time machine backups (both the server and Mac clients)
2) Attach only a 500 GB fw drive, and have the mini use RAID5. [Can the Mac Mini do this? (So one would get a RAID5 array consisting of the 2 internal drives and the external firewire for redundancy)].

Both options would offer me 1 TB of space on the server (although 1 would technically give some more, since backups are on the external), and both options would give a redundancy of 1 HDD. Any suggestions here? I suppose option 1 is the safest and most stable way to go? If either of the internal drives fails, I'll still have Time Machine to recover. Some downtime incase of a failure is too bad, but not the end of the world.

Just a note: if you get the MacMini Server you will need an external DL Superdrive to use for the initial install, as it doesn't have an internal one, but after that it's not need.

Question: Does this mean that OSX server is not pre-configured on the drive, like Mac OSX 10.5 was when I got my Macbook, for instance? If so, would it be possible to somehow have the server "borrow" the superdrive in my Macbook Pro (specs in my profile), for the installation? (Think drive sharing over the network or something of the likes?)

Oh and one last question... can Snow Leopard server also be used as a normal Snow Leopard installation simultaneously?
(One of our PCs needs drastic replacement. I could either get an iMac, or save costs by having the Mini do both. Load wouldn't be too high... mainly browsing the web, MS Office and perhaps some minor actions with iPhoto)

Thanks again!

 

[stwb]

Have you by any chance ever measured how much power your Mini consumes on average?

Although the Server tools included do give you the ability to observe such things as power consumption, network traffic, temperature,etc (depending on the correct hardware). Not really able to help on this, never really took much notice on that side of things, sorry (just the bills at the end of the day, which weren't too bad).

I am however still in dubio if the server offers major advantages. The two setups I am considering:
1) Use the Mac-mini in a RAID0 (Yeh, unsafe, I know), while attaching a 3 or 4 TB FW drive for all time machine backups (both the server and Mac clients)
2) Attach only a 500 GB fw drive, and have the mini use RAID5. [Can the Mac Mini do this? (So one would get a RAID5 array consisting of the 2 internal drives and the external firewire for redundancy)].

As you a talking about using the Mini Servers internal drives, yes I would go with option-1 with the TimeMachine backup of everything. Personally I would invest in an external RAID 3-drive enclosure, an expense I know - but it gives you that peace-of-mind (I'm presently looking for one!) and takes all the hardwork away from the Mini.

Question: Does this mean that OSX server is not pre-configured on the drive, like Mac OSX 10.5 was when I got my Macbook, for instance? If so, would it be possible to somehow have the server "borrow" the superdrive in my Macbook Pro (specs in my profile), for the installation? (Think drive sharing over the network or something of the likes?)

Doh! Yes my bad. As per all Mac systems it will be preinstalled for you to configure and you could also install it using the Server as a Firewire drive.

Oh and one last question... can Snow Leopard server also be used as a normal Snow Leopard installation simultaneously?
(One of our PCs needs drastic replacement. I could either get an iMac, or save costs by having the Mini do both. Load wouldn't be too high... mainly browsing the web, MS Office and perhaps some minor actions with iPhoto)

Yes whilst running as a Server you can just go about your day using it as a standard Mac, it is after all Snow Leopard at core. Mine is setup as a FileServer using OS X Server sharing 2 external drives, whilst also running as an XBMC MediaCentre (also running as my LAN iTunes server).

 

[Kaham]

Brilliant! Sounds like one of those Mini's can do what I am looking for.

Regarding the external RAID solution: Yes, eventually that would be my goal. However, seeing the fact that the Mini already costs €892 (including student discount already), I may need to save up first *sigh*. So far the only proper candidate I've found is some Drobo (ring any bell???) firewire device, which can hold up to four drives and supports fw800. This would set me back another 300, without even including drives.

Anyway, suppose my final solution will be something like this:
Mac Mini Server, with both drives formatted in RAID0, used for storage: media library, shared folders, pictures, etcetera. Then attach that Drobo (or any other good candidate) to the FW800 port. Hook up 3-4 Western Digital Green Power drives into the Drobo in a RAID5 and use it as my Time Machine destination for both the Mini and clients.

Cheers again for clearing things out, much appreciated!

 

[stwb]

Regarding the external RAID solution: Yes, eventually that would be my goal. However, seeing the fact that the Mini already costs €892 (including student discount already), I may need to save up first *sigh*.

Yeah I know that feeling!

So far the only proper candidate I've found is some Drobo (ring any bell???) firewire device, which can hold up to four drives and supports fw800. This would set me back another 300, without even including drives.

Yep, as far as I'm aware Scott, Dave & Matt over at NAPP use these. So they come highly recommended.

Anyway, suppose my final solution will be something like this:
Mac Mini Server, with both drives formatted in RAID0, used for storage: media library, shared folders, pictures, etcetera. Then attach that Drobo (or any other good candidate) to the FW800 port. Hook up 3-4 Western Digital Green Power drives into the Drobo in a RAID5 and use it as my Time Machine destination for both the Mini and clients.

Sounds like you're gonna have a nice little setup there, good luck.

 

[benparko]

Hey mate,

Just to throw a spanner in the works.....

Why don't you look for an external HDD. You can get a wireless HDD with plenty of space which would be cheaper to buy and cheapoer to run.

Have a look here:

LaCie - Network Attached Storage and RAID - Gigabit Ethernet

Obviously, there are MANY other companies who make the same product, so have a look around to find one which is best for you. I can't remember the brand of the one I used at work when I worked for a games development company, but it was awesome! You could remote access it, have a few drives in it expanding the hard disk space over 10TB. And it came with a web GUI to view and manage it. I think it MAY have been Buffalo. Take a look anyway.

I was also looking at having a Storage Server at hoime to use for my MBP. I first looked at a PC server, then Ubuntu, then finally a Mac Mini Server. All of which are expensive to build and expensive to run (power). So I believe the best option (well, atleast for me anyway) is to go for the external storage box.

Have a look at them and maybe it will be better for you.

All the best mate, hope it helped,

-Ben

 

[benparko]

I kinda skipped alot of the thread because there was so much to read....

But if you had an External HDD with all of the features you posted in the opening thread, you wouldn't really need a Mac Mini at all...

 

[stwb]

I kinda skipped alot of the thread because there was so much to read....

But if you had an External HDD with all of the features you posted in the opening thread, you wouldn't really need a Mac Mini at all...

That would be the Drobo he's saving for.

 

[Bobby Carbn]

I would stay away from the Drobo if speed is a concern. Most of the reviews and benchmark tests fault the Drobo for delivering about 15-30MB/s throughput. For the cost, it is very poor performance. I would take a look over at smallnetbuilder and read the NAS Reviews and performance charts.

You could pick up a 2-bay NAS for much cheaper with a pair of 1.5TB hard drives and get all of the functionality you are looking for. Keep in mind, that the cheaper solutions are not ready to go right out of the box and may require some tweaking. Nothing is way beyond most folks to accomplish from a technical perspective, if you are willing to read a bit and take good notes as you go along.

If you want to spend a few more bucks you can look at devices like the QNAP TS-459 pro or similar offerings by Synology. Stay away from cheap 139 dollar 2TB monster drives if you go this route if you plan to run RAID 5. You will not be happy with the performance.

I have a mac mini server and like it very much, but I also have a D-Link DNS-323 running two Seagate 1.5 TB drives and a QNAP TS-559 Pro with 5 WD 1TB RE3 Drives in Raid 5 + Hot spare.

If you decide to go with a device like the D-Link check out the forums that talk about Fonz's Fun Plug. howto:fun_plug - DNS323Wiki

Hope this helps
BC

 

[benparko]

I think another good way to store your media and be able to access it wirelessly, and remotely is using a Seagate External HDD and connecting it to a Seagate FreeAgent DockStar Network Adapter. This is the way I backup my TimeMachine and store all of my media.

I have a Seagate FreeAgent Go for Mac 500Gb, and when I'm at home I have it plugged into the Seagate FreeAgent DockStar Network Adapter which gives me wireless access to it from my MacBook Pro and iPhone, and you can also access it through a web browser remotely. They even have an iPhone app so you can access it with your phone when you're away from home.

Take a look at this video - YouTube - Network-Attached Storage Review (Seagate FreeAgent DockStar)

Hope it helps

-Ben

 

[stwb]

I have a mac mini server and like it very much, but I also have a D-Link DNS-323 running two Seagate 1.5 TB drives and a QNAP TS-559 Pro with 5 WD 1TB RE3 Drives in Raid 5 + Hot spare.

Bobby, do you have any noise issues with the QNAP drive? I was considering it, but all the reviews I've seen grade it down for being very noisy.