Forums
New posts
Articles
Product Reviews
Policies
FAQ
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Apple Computing Products:
macOS - Apps and Programs
Looking for recommendations for backup software for Mac
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="sieler" data-source="post: 1340251" data-attributes="member: 94817"><p>Clearly ... despite my preemptive attempts <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Argh...what developer puts "Restore" in the out-of-the-way bottom right corner like that?</p><p></p><p>I had done the obvious Mac thing... I highlighted the file and right clicked. </p><p>A number of options were shown, including "Restore ..." (which *won't* let you restore back to /usr if that's</p><p>where it came from), but the one blazingly obvious option that **** well should be there isn't: "Restore".</p><p>Sigh. I'll add it to my laundry list of things that need to be fixed when I get to be CTO of Apple <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>So, thanks for pointing that out for me ... now, to the majority of your post ...</p><p></p><p>There's a communication problem ... I'm writing from the viewpoint of a *very* experienced</p><p>developer of backup products ... and you're answering from an end-user's viewpoint.</p><p></p><p>You say: </p><p></p><p>(which I pointed out) and:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Note for those who follow the above link and try DesktopUtility: it isn't obvious, but once you've started DesktopUtility, it won't show up as a program like, say, TextEdit or Disk Utility ... it shows up (if at all) as a small gear icon on the menu bar. Clicking the gear gets you a small menu, of which one choice is "Show Invisible Files". It seems to show up when only when certain apps have the focus ... I didn't experiment long enough to determine which/why. (E.g., active for TextEdit, not active for Safari).</p><p></p><p>Aside from the above ... there are a number of ways to make files</p><p>"invisible" on the Mac. I'm not sure which mechanisms DesktopUtility</p><p>(or "inVisibles" utility) can handle ... but it certainly isn't all of them, and doesn't handle things like /usr, as a quick test would have shown.</p><p></p><p>Note that /usr (and many similar files) are not *invisible* in the normal OS sense. They simply have some attribute that triggers a misplaced sense of over-protectiveness in Finder, and it decides to not display them.</p><p></p><p>I'm curious: what "easy" Terminal command would make /usr visible in TM?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Heck yes! Good backup software does! For decades, tar, cpio, backup, backup, and a number of other Unix / Linux backup programs have had that ability, as well as every backup program I've seen on mainframes.</p><p></p><p>Simply put: it's such an obvious requirement for a backup system, I was shocked to not find it in TimeMachine or QRecall.</p><p></p><p>Note: pointing to something widespread, like, say, Windows Backup or TM, and saying "it doesn't have this capability" doesn't constitute a valid counter-argument. Note that I said "good backup software", not "popular backup software" or "widespread backup software" <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd forgotten that TM's "Restore" did that ... some other Mac backup products don't.</p><p>Thanks for the reminder!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sigh ... not even close to what I was referring to. The exclusion list in TM's preferences is used to exclude files to backup ... not to decide which files to restore.</p><p></p><p>Here's a scenario:</p><p></p><p> (Terminal)</p><p> rm *txt*</p><p></p><p>then you say "oops..." <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Now, try to use TM to restore those files ... and as a bonus, let's say you have a file containing a list of the files you just deleted. With TM, The TM "search" facility searches *FAR* too much ... it has no means of saying "files with 'txt' in the current directory. No...entering txt into the search field (and clicking on "titles", not "content"), might get you thousands of files from your entire account ... not just a few dozen from your cwd.</p><p></p><p>BTW, the easiest, although non-obvious to most users, method would probably be: click on "kind" to sort by file "kind", highlight all the files except for the directories (which will be at the start or end, depending upon the number of clicks on "kind"), click on "Restore" (bottom right corner of screen). Then, when asked about restoring over existing files, check "apply to all" and select "Keep Original". Note: this approach will, unfortunately, also bring in other files you might have deleted in the current directory.</p><p></p><p>Wow...a lot harder than: tar xvf mybackup -T list_of_files</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sigh. I know whereof I speak. Try this search with google:</p><p></p><p> delete timemachine backups</p><p></p><p>Although a small percent of the hits are for the 'easy' problem you refer to, the majority deal with the fact that TimeMachine is pernicious. It goes out of its way to use obscure and/or undocumented Mac OS APIs to make many of its backup files undeleteable. Indeed, most users who try to delete a TM backup directory usually end up having to "reformat" the entire backup drive. QRecall keeps its backup data in files that mere mortals can delete. (Yeah, that means I can delete my backups ... so what, they're *mine*, and I *should* be able to delete them! If I want to screw up my backups, then let me ... that's why the (original) Darwin is important <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, we see that (a) most of my complaints are completely valid, (b) I never implied that I thought TM or some other products wouldn't meet the needs of most users (indeed, I recommend QRecall), and ( c) I'm asking for suggestions about *other* backup software I could use. I probably should have used the phrase "backup products" to indicate my willingness to pay for good software.</p><p></p><p>BTW, here's the Finder information for /usr, as returned by getxattr () for the sole xattr it has (com.apple.FinderInfo):</p><p></p><p> com.apple.FinderInfo : usr</p><p>0000 : 0000 0000 0000 0000 4000 0000 0000 0000 ........@.......</p><p>0010 : 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 ................</p><p></p><p>Stan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="sieler, post: 1340251, member: 94817"] Clearly ... despite my preemptive attempts :( Argh...what developer puts "Restore" in the out-of-the-way bottom right corner like that? I had done the obvious Mac thing... I highlighted the file and right clicked. A number of options were shown, including "Restore ..." (which *won't* let you restore back to /usr if that's where it came from), but the one blazingly obvious option that **** well should be there isn't: "Restore". Sigh. I'll add it to my laundry list of things that need to be fixed when I get to be CTO of Apple :) So, thanks for pointing that out for me ... now, to the majority of your post ... There's a communication problem ... I'm writing from the viewpoint of a *very* experienced developer of backup products ... and you're answering from an end-user's viewpoint. You say: (which I pointed out) and: Note for those who follow the above link and try DesktopUtility: it isn't obvious, but once you've started DesktopUtility, it won't show up as a program like, say, TextEdit or Disk Utility ... it shows up (if at all) as a small gear icon on the menu bar. Clicking the gear gets you a small menu, of which one choice is "Show Invisible Files". It seems to show up when only when certain apps have the focus ... I didn't experiment long enough to determine which/why. (E.g., active for TextEdit, not active for Safari). Aside from the above ... there are a number of ways to make files "invisible" on the Mac. I'm not sure which mechanisms DesktopUtility (or "inVisibles" utility) can handle ... but it certainly isn't all of them, and doesn't handle things like /usr, as a quick test would have shown. Note that /usr (and many similar files) are not *invisible* in the normal OS sense. They simply have some attribute that triggers a misplaced sense of over-protectiveness in Finder, and it decides to not display them. I'm curious: what "easy" Terminal command would make /usr visible in TM? Heck yes! Good backup software does! For decades, tar, cpio, backup, backup, and a number of other Unix / Linux backup programs have had that ability, as well as every backup program I've seen on mainframes. Simply put: it's such an obvious requirement for a backup system, I was shocked to not find it in TimeMachine or QRecall. Note: pointing to something widespread, like, say, Windows Backup or TM, and saying "it doesn't have this capability" doesn't constitute a valid counter-argument. Note that I said "good backup software", not "popular backup software" or "widespread backup software" :) I'd forgotten that TM's "Restore" did that ... some other Mac backup products don't. Thanks for the reminder! Sigh ... not even close to what I was referring to. The exclusion list in TM's preferences is used to exclude files to backup ... not to decide which files to restore. Here's a scenario: (Terminal) rm *txt* then you say "oops..." :) Now, try to use TM to restore those files ... and as a bonus, let's say you have a file containing a list of the files you just deleted. With TM, The TM "search" facility searches *FAR* too much ... it has no means of saying "files with 'txt' in the current directory. No...entering txt into the search field (and clicking on "titles", not "content"), might get you thousands of files from your entire account ... not just a few dozen from your cwd. BTW, the easiest, although non-obvious to most users, method would probably be: click on "kind" to sort by file "kind", highlight all the files except for the directories (which will be at the start or end, depending upon the number of clicks on "kind"), click on "Restore" (bottom right corner of screen). Then, when asked about restoring over existing files, check "apply to all" and select "Keep Original". Note: this approach will, unfortunately, also bring in other files you might have deleted in the current directory. Wow...a lot harder than: tar xvf mybackup -T list_of_files Sigh. I know whereof I speak. Try this search with google: delete timemachine backups Although a small percent of the hits are for the 'easy' problem you refer to, the majority deal with the fact that TimeMachine is pernicious. It goes out of its way to use obscure and/or undocumented Mac OS APIs to make many of its backup files undeleteable. Indeed, most users who try to delete a TM backup directory usually end up having to "reformat" the entire backup drive. QRecall keeps its backup data in files that mere mortals can delete. (Yeah, that means I can delete my backups ... so what, they're *mine*, and I *should* be able to delete them! If I want to screw up my backups, then let me ... that's why the (original) Darwin is important :) So, we see that (a) most of my complaints are completely valid, (b) I never implied that I thought TM or some other products wouldn't meet the needs of most users (indeed, I recommend QRecall), and ( c) I'm asking for suggestions about *other* backup software I could use. I probably should have used the phrase "backup products" to indicate my willingness to pay for good software. BTW, here's the Finder information for /usr, as returned by getxattr () for the sole xattr it has (com.apple.FinderInfo): com.apple.FinderInfo : usr 0000 : 0000 0000 0000 0000 4000 0000 0000 0000 ........@....... 0010 : 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 ................ Stan [/QUOTE]
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Apple Computing Products:
macOS - Apps and Programs
Looking for recommendations for backup software for Mac
Top