Homekit and Neatgear Orbi not playing nicely

[MacInWin]

SETUP: I have a Netgear Orbi RBR50 router, firmware at the latest (V2.7.3.22) and three satellite RBS50s, also at the latest firmware level. Trying to migrate from an older home automation to Homekit. Did a lot of reading, Meross seemed a good solution, good reviews. Also have two Homekit iHome plugs from an earlier experiment with Homekit. So, I set up some devices, the setup went fine, they appeared in the Home app, all looked good. Most of them were Meross Smart Wi-Fi Plug Mini (MSS110). They are supposed to work with Homekit, and multiple reviews said they worked well in Homekit environments.

As I said, setup was fine. Each device was recognized, Home set the devices up for the Rooms I wanted, and I tested that both manual control on the iPhone and voice control via Siri worked for each device. Created a couple of automations and they worked well, too.

Then I took the devices to the various locations, got them plugged in and waited until they were reconnected to the network, tested that they worked manually and by voice. All was good. The older iHome plugs also set up nicely and tested in the locations I want them to be.

But now that the devices are spread through the house, they are randomly appearing and disappearing from Home. Right now I have 7 devices being reported as "No Response." It has ranged between 7 and 11 all evening. They change from "Updating" to "No Response" every couple of minutes.

I can see the devices in the list of attached devices in the Orbi router. The ones that are attached are all attached to the 2.4Ghz part of the router, as they are designed. But the "No Response" ones are not showing in the attached devices list. They do come and go there.

The Orbi cannot separate the 2.4 and 5Ghz bands from the one network. Nor can I set which band to connect on the iPhone. Both are automatic. But nothing changed in that from the time they were setup and now. The iPhone is on the 5Ghz band. But as I said, I can see some of the devices and not others, and it seems to be random. And the problem isn't restricted to just the Meross plugs, the two iHome plugs are also winking in and out. Otherwise, my WiFi coverage is excellent everywhere in the house. I get a full "fan" at each location, but of course that's on the 5Ghz band. But the 2.4 Ghz band is supposed to be better at distance, if slower at speed, so while I can't "know" the signal strength, I can pretty well expect the 2.4 to be as good as, if not better, than the 5.

The Netgear site was of some help. But no solution. They have a "community" page where folks with issues can seek help. There was one thread there from a user about 6 months ago with the same version of the firmware but as far as I can see, he didn't get it sorted, either. He apparently rolled the router firmware back, but never reported the results. The last post was in July, 2021.

The internet doesn't show a ton of issues with Orbi and Homekit, so I think that is good news, I think. But it also means that there aren't any good solutions, either.

At the Apple site, they recommend Eero routers, but don't say why. I think it may be because Eero supports the PPSK authentication that Homekit can use to prevent Homekit devices from accessing the internet autonomously, i.e., no "phone home" allowed. But that should not contribute to devices randomly appearing and disappearing from my Home setup.

Just while I entered this, the "No Response" list has been fluctuating from 6 to 11, totally randomly.

Any clues for me? Anybody else running Orbi and Homekit?

 

[MacInWin]

I kept looking and eventually put together two threads to get what I "think" is a solution. For anyone searching that sees this thread, here is what I did:

Open Orbilogin and log into the router. Select Advanced, then Advanced Setup and Wireless Settings. There are three things involved. I turned OFF the WMM for the 2.4 band. I turned ON BEAMFORMIING and MIMO. I had done the latter two before, with no change, but then I found someone who said that he had also disabled WMM and Homekit worked perfectly. So, I added that. Once set, click APPLY and wait. It takes a while to propagate to the rest of the satellites and for the devices to connect. Once it was done, I had three consistently not responding devices left, but the rest stabilized. I went to where each was located and used this procedure:

1. Open Home on an iPhone or iPad, delete the device (On the Home page of Home, hold down the icon for the device, then when the window opens click on the gear at the bottom of the page. Scroll down to the button to Remove Accessory and remove it.
2. Exit Home and kill the running process.
3. Put the iDevice in Airplane Mode (yes, strangely, this is a required step, it didn't work if I didn't).
4. Factory reset the accessory, whatever that takes. Varies by manufacturer/device.
5. Turn off Airplane Mode on the iDevice
6. Attach the device again as a new accessory. Again, whatever that takes, it does vary by device a bit.

Done! After following this process for the three devices, all attached successfully and it worked well. This morning no more strangeness.

Here is a screenshot of the Orbi panel with the three areas circled for you. Hope that helps.

 

[MacInWin]

OK, another question/problem/opportunity to excel has popped up. I got my Home network going and it actually works pretty well now. I have a total of 30 controllers for lights, garage doors, cameras, etc. However, I have a problem in that a set of 6 Wyze cameras no longer want to stay attached to the network. Or, if they do stay attached, instead of live video feed, I get still images every few seconds, with the time between them totally random. Motion doesn't trigger the image to change, either. That tells me the cameras are dropping out, reconnecting, dropping, reconnecting, etc. I talked to Wyze, they have no explanation or suggestion. Wyze cameras are NOT Homekit-ready, so I decided to get one camera from eufy (an Anker company). It did connect and seems to work better, although not flawlessly.

I looked at my network through the login support on the router and there are a total of 60 devices attached, and I recognize all of them as legitimate. Most are on the 2.4Ghz band as that is where the Homekit stuff is. Some are on 5Ghz. My Orbi mesh network cannot separate 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz networks, nor can I turn off the 5Ghz band completely. I have iPhones, iPads, Apple TVs, Printers, cameras, Homekit and one security monitor from ADT attached.

I've used a couple of WiFi sniffers and I can see 15+ other networks from my system. Most are on both 2.4 and 5 Ghz. On the 2.4Ghz, most are on channels 1, 6, or 11. I'm on 1, but I have tried 11 with no change. My own network is, obviously, the strongest signal, but a couple of my neighbor systems are pretty strong as well. Bottom line is that I can't get away from having at least 3 other networks on any channel I pick.

OK, so much for the setup.

What I was considering was to use an old Apple Airport Extreme router I have and set up a different network, only on 2.4Ghz, to make my own Internet-of-Things (IoT) for my Homekit. I do have an old Apple TV that could be in the IoT for the automation, and I think I could connect it to my ISP modem for Internet access, then set up the AE to use a different range of IPs for DHCP. For example, my network now is 192.168.1.xxx, but I could set up the AE to use 10.0.0.xxx. Give it a different network name but tie it to my same AppleID and iCloud. What I see as a potential benefit is that there would be only about 30 devices on that IoT, which might reduce congestion, but then I'd have to switch my iPhone from my "normal" network to the IoT network to be able to see and control my Homekit devices. That's a hassle I would not like to have. I like being able to just look at and control my home. For example, I have remote garage door sensors and controls, so when my wife comes home, I get a notification that the garage door opened and can go help her with whatever load she may have to bring in. I can also monitor that the door is closed once we are in the house. I haven't set up geofencing yet to have the door open as we come down the street, but am thinking about that, too.

But if all of that signalling is on the IoT network and not my "normal" network, I wouldn't get those notifications and alerts and I would have to shift networks to control anything, I think.

I've done reading at various home automation sites and haven't seen anyone similar to me, but there must be somebody else who has this issue. I can't believe I'm the only one with the challenge.

So, anybody here got any suggestions? Experiences?

 

[rbpeirce]

SETUP: I have a Netgear Orbi RBR50 router, firmware at the latest (V2.7.3.22)

Me too. How do you determine your firmware version? Mine is a couple of years old, and while it is working fine, I have no idea what firmware I'm running.

I've just started to experiment with home automation. I bought a HomeDepot smart plug to play with. It uses Hubspace instead of HomeKit but it shows up on the Orbi network.

 

[MacInWin]

Log in to your Orbi. For me, that means opening a browser and entering "Orbilogin.net." You could probably also go to the Orbi IP, which for me is 192.168.1.1 and log in. The current firmware will be in the upper right corner. Click on Advanced, then Administration and there will be a menu item for "Firmware Update." NOTE: Updating will temporarily take the network down, then restart. Your devices may need to log in again, although I don't recall having to do much. The Satellites should also update and reconnect. There is good online documentation at Netgear's website.

 

[rbpeirce]

Thanks. I have the same firmware as you. I've been using the Orbi app and forgot about logging in with Safari.

 

[mesoblaste]

I kept looking and eventually put together two threads to get what I "think" is a solution. For anyone searching that sees this thread, here is what I did:

Open Orbilogin and log into the router. Select Advanced, then Advanced Setup and Wireless Settings. There are three things involved. I turned OFF the WMM for the 2.4 band. I turned ON BEAMFORMIING and MIMO. I had done the latter two before, with no change, but then I found someone who said that he had also disabled WMM and Homekit worked perfectly. So, I added that. Once set, click APPLY and wait. It takes a while to propagate to the rest of the satellites and for the devices to connect. Once it was done, I had three consistently not responding devices left, but the rest stabilized. I went to where each was located and used this procedure:

1. Open Home on an iPhone or iPad, delete the device (On the Home page of Home, hold down the icon for the device, then when the window opens click on the gear at the bottom of the page. Scroll down to the button to Remove Accessory and remove it.
2. Exit Home and kill the running process.
3. Put the iDevice in Airplane Mode (yes, strangely, this is a required step, it didn't work if I didn't).
4. Factory reset the accessory, whatever that takes. Varies by manufacturer/device.
5. Turn off Airplane Mode on the iDevice
6. Attach the device again as a new accessory. Again, whatever that takes, it does vary by device a bit.

Done! After following this process for the three devices, all attached successfully and it worked well. This morning no more strangeness.

Here is a screenshot of the Orbi panel with the three areas circled for you. Hope that helps.


View attachment 35397

I have a similar network configuration and have similar issue with my Orbi 960. Did turning off WMM for 2.4GHz resolve your issue? I can't try at the moment because im not home and have to wait til next week, but im curious about what happened since your post your solution. Thanks

 

[MacInWin]

I have a similar network configuration and have similar issue with my Orbi 960. Did turning off WMM for 2.4GHz resolve your issue? I can't try at the moment because im not home and have to wait til next week, but im curious about what happened since your post your solution. Thanks

I was never able to get the Orbi to work well. I've ditched it and now have an Eero network instead. It's not fantastic, and sometimes Homekit loses track of my controllers, but it is much more consistent that all I do to "recover" them is to unplug them, wait a few seconds, and then power them on again. The devices are NOT dropping from Eero, it's definitely a Homekit bug somewhere.

The Wyze cameras are very steady in the Eero network, as is the Eufy.

I think Apple has some real issues with the Home app it hasn't fixed. I use AppleTVs, three of them, as the home hub, and st seems that every time there is an update to tvOS it takes a while for Home to settle again and stop losing devices.

 

[mesoblaste]

I was never able to get the Orbi to work well. I've ditched it and now have an Eero network instead. It's not fantastic, and sometimes Homekit loses track of my controllers, but it is much more consistent that all do to "recover" them is to unplug them, wait a few seconds, and then power them on again. The devices are NOT dropping from Eero, it's definitely a Homekit bug somewhere.

The Wyze cameras are very steady in the Eero network, as is the Eufy.

I think Apple has some real issues with the Home app it hasn't fixed. I use AppleTVs, three of them, as the home hub, and st seems that every time there is an update to tvOS it takes a while for Home to settle again and stop losing devices.

Thanks for the quick answer, I found a post when you talk about Eero, and somehow I find quite reconforting that the problem doesn't seem to be from Orbi as I invest in an expensive 960 system thinking that the dedicated 2.4 GHz IoT channel would resolve my HomeKit connectivity issues... I will try your solution anyway, hoping for some improvement, im also discussing with Legrand services as the most frequent problems I have is with their hub-related accessories (both Module control and mobile control plug). The other brand im facing most problems is Meross, that's why im progressively replacing light with Philips Hue, and plugs with Aqara. I got the feeling that WiFi standalone accessories bring more problems that Hub-zigbee accessories.
For now it gives me hope that I can stand with NetGear Orbi, though if I had to set a new network now I will probably look more into Linksys mesh as they seem supported by Apple HomeKit.

 

[MacInWin]

Thanks for the quick answer, I found a post when you talk about Eero, and somehow I find quite reconforting that the problem doesn't seem to be from Orbi as I invest in an expensive 960 system thinking that the dedicated 2.4 GHz IoT channel would resolve my HomeKit connectivity issues... I will try your solution anyway, hoping for some improvement, im also discussing with Legrand services as the most frequent problems I have is with their hub-related accessories (both Module control and mobile control plug). The other brand im facing most problems is Meross, that's why im progressively replacing light with Philips Hue, and plugs with Aqara. I got the feeling that WiFi standalone accessories bring more problems that Hub-zigbee accessories.
For now it gives me hope that I can stand with NetGear Orbi, though if I had to set a new network now I will probably look more into Linksys mesh as they seem supported by Apple HomeKit.

I have a lot of Meross sockets, and they work well, most of the time. They do stay connected to the Eero network, but, again, HomeKit "loses" them somehow and reports they are not responding. Unplugging/plugging gets them back again pretty reliably.