Building a Mac from scratch help me

i posted this in another forum topic as well ..wrong place i think.. sorry.. im new here..

i bought the body of a ferrari and its missing its engine.

ive used macs most of my life and i recently came across one at a goodwill computer store here in austin tx, yes goodwill has a tech store here.. anyway thought it would be a cheap way to get a powerful mac.

i bought it since i knew i could upgrade the processor. its a g4 powerpc 400 mhz 1.5 gig ram 80 gig hd. it came with a monitor keyboard/mouse and the bill was 200 bucks.. well.. $189.95 to be exact.. it was running os x 9 but i already had 10.3 in hand

ive seen many processors.. dual 1.8 for 400-500 something like that. and dual 1.6/1.7 for around 3-400.i think the cheapest was a single core 1.6 for 200.. also saw a single 2.0 for 400... here:

http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/Search.cfm?Ntt=maxpower&Ntk=Primary&N=0&Ns=P_Price|0

im looking to go dual and upgrade to leopard since most of these processors claim to be leopard compatible.. has anyone else tried this? read its a simple plug and play process.. !?!!?!

looking to upgrade my video/audio cards as well.. it currently has a rage 128 video card im not sure on the sound card any advice on new cards???

thanks.. any thoughts on how i should build my feiro ferrari

Since it's such an old Mac, I would not sink too much into it. Get the lowest priced upgrade CPU that will run Leopard. What I would recommend for a video card is a 9800 Pro Mac version but they are not cheep brand new. You can find them on Ebay sometimes for a decent price. I have a 500Mhz Sawtooth G4. I was going to upgrade it all the way but picked up a cheap Digital Audio and upgraded that as it has a 133Mhz Bus instead of a 100Mhz like the older Sawtooth and it's much faster at the higher CPU speeds.

I love older G4's but just don't sink too much cash into it. With the 100Mhz Bus it will hold it back a bit. I am running Leopard on my 1.8Ghz G4 Sawtooth and it runs quite well. You already do have 1.5GB RAM so that will be fine. That stock ATI video card will really hold it back.

dtravis7 said:

Since it's such an old Mac, I would not sink too much into it. Get the lowest priced upgrade CPU that will run Leopard. What I would recommend for a video card is a 9800 Pro Mac version but they are not cheep brand new. You can find them on Ebay sometimes for a decent price. I have a 500Mhz Sawtooth G4. I was going to upgrade it all the way but picked up a cheap Digital Audio and upgraded that as it has a 133Mhz Bus instead of a 100Mhz like the older Sawtooth and it's much faster at the higher CPU speeds.

I love older G4's but just don't sink too much cash into it. With the 100Mhz Bus it will hold it back a bit. I am running Leopard on my 1.8Ghz G4 Sawtooth and it runs quite well. You already do have 1.5GB RAM so that will be fine. That stock ATI video card will really hold it back.

Click to expand...

yea i like the older g4s too.. even the look.. the 9800 would be nice but im looking at something a lil cheaper since im upgrading the processor and the sound card as well.. any thoughts about their 9000 series?? any other cards?

i basically use it for graphic design, primarily digital art.. nothing too extreme, im not doing any 3d animations or anything.. it does ok now.. some files take a minute to render though... n also i use it for some basic audio editing.. i would like to play a game (fps) here and there.. i didnt want to buy a mini and i hate having to share our other mac when i want to do some work or just play around..

i wonder if the 1.6 single would be suffice..

thanks again..

The 1.6 would be fine. One thing to remember if it makes any difference to you is, in Leopard you need a video card that will work with OSX's Core Graphics to get all the Leopard effects. It will work fine without those effects, but wanted to point that out in case. The 9000 would work fine as long as it supports AGP 2X but I doubt it will work with Core Graphics. Just be sure what ever card you purchase will work in an AGP2x Mac.

Good Luck.

dtravis7 said:

The 1.6 would be fine. One thing to remember if it makes any difference to you is, in Leopard you need a video card that will work with OSX's Core Graphics to get all the Leopard effects. It will work fine without those effects, but wanted to point that out in case. The 9000 would work fine as long as it supports AGP 2X but I doubt it will work with Core Graphics. Just be sure what ever card you purchase will work in an AGP2x Mac.

Good Luck.

Click to expand...

good advice.. thanks..

also does anyone know a way to upgrade the ethernet.. is this possible.. seems this connection is slow compared to friends being over and connecting with their laptops.. direct connects.. no wifi hurr

dtravis7 said:

The 1.6 would be fine. One thing to remember if it makes any difference to you is, in Leopard you need a video card that will work with OSX's Core Graphics to get all the Leopard effects. It will work fine without those effects, but wanted to point that out in case. The 9000 would work fine as long as it supports AGP 2X but I doubt it will work with Core Graphics. Just be sure what ever card you purchase will work in an AGP2x Mac.

Good Luck.

Click to expand...

hmm i found the 9800 u speak of.. good price too. 149

http://www.yourmacstore.com/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=227&cat=AGP+Video+for+G4

im also wondering now about power supply issues.. theyre 237w.. is this going to be sufficient when upgrading the video to the 9800.. cant seem to find g4 power supply upgrades can i use any 400w power supply.. the goodwill store is a junkyard of good stuff at cheap prices??

20 pin power supply g4 sawtooth

i have another thread going but i got some advice i needed and only have one last question regarding the power supply

my sawtooth is a 20 pin 237 ps. can i use any 20 pin ps??

im looking for atleast a 400w ps. im upgrading the processor, video,audio cards.

through research ive found this is possible or so they say but i havent seen a specific ps model shown.. anyone?

Radeon™ 9800 PRO Mac Edition requires connection to your computer’s internal power supply for operation so this ps would be nice with a direct connect rather then having to buy an adapter..

i will also need atleast 3 power connectors to power 2 hds and a cd/dvd rom..

thanks in advance

nm

i'll just give this mac to my bro for his bd was a good deal..

nm im gonna give this mac to my bro for his bd..
going to start from scratch..

Building a mac from scratch help me

so i have a sawtooth but im thinking of leaving it be and giving it to my bro after i build one..

first off ive never built a computer.. upgraded sure but built one..no. it'll be fun.. add your two cents in trying to help me build a powerful semi cheap g4 .. like i said ive never done this nor am i a tech savant but im going to try...note i may ask dumb questions along the way

1.. i found some g4 mobos.. digital audio or quicksilver? which should be the base?.. they both can be had for cheap. 15/20 bucks no heat sink or processor a tad bit more for cpu/heat sink 40-50..

2.. is there truely a difference in these mobos? what r the pros and cons to each?

3..since i will be adding sonnet/power logic 1.6-1.8 do i really even need the the heat sink/processor to come with my board?

4.also i thought u could upgrade a g4 audio like m-audios g5 pci card.. apparently you cant.. is there a way around that for surround sound?? if not.. o'well

i have 1g pc133 laying around already.
im already set on buying a 9800 pro video card.
i can take the usb 2.0 card out of this mac. he wont need it.
im sure the goodwill computer store has broken g4s for parts
they have hds from $10 power supplys the same.


what else should i be looking at?

thanks

I would go with quicksilver - faster bus and better CPU upgrade options

www.macsales.com/ is a good place for processors

Check pout the base macs specs at everymac.com

I think both Digital Audio and quicksilver have AGP slots

He will need the USB 2 card if he has an ipod, or plans to have an external disk

Any Ultra PATA drive should work with those macs and a Pioneer DVD burner will be a great cheap upgrade and give it full DVD burning capability

*Merged threads for continuity's sake*

As you can tell from my specs (<---) I have a heavily upgraded G4. Ultimately, it was more expensive to upgrade then the cost of a (faster) Mac Mini but I'm a PC builder and the satisfaction of upgrading sometimes outweighs the instant gratification and cost savings of just buying what you need. I really learned a lot about PowerPC Macs from all the upgrades (Including some exposure to OS 9 since I had to install it for the processor upgrade's 'OS 9 only' firmware mods). If you really want to see what it can do upgraded, its pretty fun. If you are looking at having a serious workstation and performance is truly a necessity, don't waste your money. Just get a new (Or nearly new) system and be done with it.

PS.
Mine is currently being used by my son for playing around on children's websites (sesamestreet.com, playhousedisney.com, etc...) where it performs decently but I do notice issues with some flash based videos, and you can definitely notice the difference at these sites on newer systems. Not quite sure if it's my video card, the 2x AGP slot or the 100MHz system bus that is the bottleneck.
Food for thought.

-MikeM

MikeM said:

As you can tell from my specs (<---) I have a heavily upgraded G4. Ultimately, it was more expensive to upgrade then the cost of a (faster) Mac Mini but I'm a PC builder and the satisfaction of upgrading sometimes outweighs the instant gratification and cost savings of just buying what you need. I really learned a lot about PowerPC Macs from all the upgrades (Including some exposure to OS 9 since I had to install it for the processor upgrade's 'OS 9 only' firmware mods). If you really want to see what it can do upgraded, its pretty fun. If you are looking at having a serious workstation and performance is truly a necessity, don't waste your money. Just get a new (Or nearly new) system and be done with it.

PS.
Mine is currently being used by my son for playing around on children's websites (sesamestreet.com, playhousedisney.com, etc...) where it performs decently but I do notice issues with some flash based videos, and you can definitely notice the difference at these sites on newer systems. Not quite sure if it's my video card, the 2x AGP slot or the 100MHz system bus that is the bottleneck.
Food for thought.

-MikeM

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Hi MikeM.
I too have been looking at the 1.8 Sonnet processor (great reviews and price not bad), and read about the Firmware for OS 9. I don't use OS 9, even though it is on my G4 QS (2001). I ran a check on Firmware available for my system and it states none required/available. (Don't know if it checked OS X and OS 9). On 'MacUpgrades' site they specify that Firmware CD, DVD only required if OS X 3 or earlier. As I have Tiger would I need to mess around with OS9 firmware? If so how?

QS's are excellent and so upgradeable. So far I have upgraded with a new Dual layer superdrive, 5 port USB2 card, wireless card, memory up to 1.5Gb, about to put an 120Gb Hard drive into it as a slave. Also looking at Graphics cards and of course that processor.

I've had the system from new for nearly 7 years and spent a few pounds
gradually upgrading it. Like you say it has been an experience and fun. I'm not greatly technically minded but anyone looking to build a system wouldn't go far wrong with a G4 QS.

Reaperman

Reaperman said:

Hi MikeM.
I too have been looking at the 1.8 Sonnet processor (great reviews and price not bad), and read about the Firmware for OS 9. I don't use OS 9, even though it is on my G4 QS (2001). I ran a check on Firmware available for my system and it states none required/available. (Don't know if it checked OS X and OS 9). On 'MacUpgrades' site they specify that Firmware CD, DVD only required if OS X 3 or earlier. As I have Tiger would I need to mess around with OS9 firmware? If so how?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the QS models. The proc came with a very detailed instruction manual that had different procedures for nearly every flavor of G4 PowerMacs (I'm still at work right now and don't have the manual at the moment to check). I believe that this isn't Apple firmware but instead something either written by Sonnet or some other company to allow the system to accept the new proc. The firmware updater only works in OS9 (I suppose this has something to do with my assumption that the hardware was designed to work with OS9 specifically and OSX must not have complete functionality on older G4s). The way I understand it, the firmware update allows the system to see the L2 Cache on the upgraded procs and maybe some other tweaks to allow a faster proc on this system bus.

I added a SATA controller card to mine to get past the 120GB limit and got a 300GB drive. Since I now had two drives, I installed OS9 clean on my original drive using the original CDs that I got with the system (I bought mine off of a cousin who had saved all the CDs and had Panther as well). Updating it to 9.2 was a bit of a pain in the butt since the system updater wouldn't work properly and I therefore had to manually download all the updates and install them individually. Then the firmware updater didn't seem to want to work either. It needed a couple attempts before it finally took properly. I have to say, This was the only experience I have ever had with OS9 and I wasn't too impressed. (No offense to the OS9 purists out there I'm sure many switchers aren’t very fond of the older MacOS flavors)

Finally back in OSX, there is a driver I had to install to get the L2 cache read properly by Tiger. It will run without the driver, but much slower.

edit
"On 'MacUpgrades' site they specify that Firmware CD, DVD only required if OS X 3 or earlier"
-I think what they meant was if the system originally came with OSX 10.3 or anything older then you'll need the firmware update.

MikeM. Thanks for that..... sounds like a lot of trouble. Not sure I really want to put my basic Mac knowledge to the test just yet. I can see it all going pear shaped on me and I'm left with a Mac that just sits in the corner and looks nice.

I will have another look at it all before I try this upgrade. I like a challenge but **** a pantomime.

Thanks again for all your help.
Reaperman

My extreme unfamiliarity with OS9 probably added to my fun with the firmware update part of the install but I have to say, every other part of the upgrade was very straight forward and simple. If you already have 9.2 installed on your system, then the most difficult part is already done. The firmware upgrade itself is simply just running a program off of the CD and letting the system reboot a certain way. If it dosen't take properly like mine didn't the 1st time, you just try it again. The instructions they provide are VERY detailed and cover everything so the upgrade is mostly a no-brainer and I wouldn't let my experience deter you from wanting to pursue an upgrade.

-MikeM