Mac Pro 8 core, to buy or not to buy help

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I am in the stage of deciding between a Mac Pro or a PC, the PC would have essentially the same graphics’ card, my primary goal is games, secondary goal is office, digital photograph and fun for kids. So I have listed my questions that I cant seem to get any answers for so I hope you can help me. Yes I know some say Mac is not for games, why not ? you cant get a PC with that power so why can’t she run games ?

NVIDIA 8800 GT Is the DX10 capable in windows ?
Booting into windows do you lose any of the capabilities of the card? will it still be 512?
can I buy two NVIDIA 8800gt and use both as one video car in windows?
Is the Mac able to support two ATI Radeon HD in crossfire in windows ?
The four PCI-E buses are they x16t or is x16 shared between the four?

I tried contacting Nvidia and no response, called apple and they don’t know said to call NVIDIA. regards the Pcie I was told shared and not shared so I am confused.
 
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Do you have any desire to run OS X? If not, why not buy or build you own PC?
 
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NVIDIA 8800 GT Is the DX10 capable in windows ?
Booting into windows do you lose any of the capabilities of the card? will it still be 512?
can I buy two NVIDIA 8800gt and use both as one video car in windows?
Is the Mac able to support two ATI Radeon HD in crossfire in windows ?
The four PCI-E buses are they x16t or is x16 shared between the four?

1. No clue. Is the Windows version DX10 compatible? I would assume they're exactly the same.
2. Not that I know of.
3. You mean SLI? I read somewhere someone got SLI to work. It didn't say how so I don't know if it's really possible.
4. No clue what crossfire is.
5. It has 2- PCI-E 2.0 x16 slots and two x4 slots. They are not configurable on the newest Mac Pro's, only the first generation Mac Pro.
 
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Hi thank you for the reply. Crossfire is a technology ATI uses for connecting two video cards together to make one. SLI is a technology used by NVIDIA top do the same. Chipset must be compatible to make SLI work. Also I like OSX because it is more reliable. I will be using max OS for other apps you cant get on PC. Plus the new Mac pro is a power house compared to anything PC has going. I just like that Mac look and feel. plus the programs they offer. Has no one tried this Yet ? Like if I do buy it I will post these answers as I think they are very important to know. Mac gets on board with the game world they will take off, its like some greater power like Microsoft has a conjunction against them that bars them from using current equipment. Like so many programs mac uses that need high frames per second but they use four year old video technology. I like Mac and I will support them as long as I see them supporting there customers. Gamers out rank any other type of user in the Market, so why not go with the flow and blow them out of the water.
 
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You might be waiting awile for an answer. There is a 3 week wait for any Mac Pro configured with an 8800 GT.
I thought the 8800 GT just came out? No, they aren't the best at keeping up to date with the latest video cards but I don't know of any Mac Pro users who are on top of video card technology like that.
Please, show me a statistic that shows that gamers are the #1 user of a computer.
 
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You might be waiting awile for an answer. There is a 3 week wait for any Mac Pro configured with an 8800 GT.
I thought the 8800 GT just came out? No, they aren't the best at keeping up to date with the latest video cards but I don't know of any Mac Pro users who are on top of video card technology like that.
Please, show me a statistic that shows that gamers are the #1 user of a computer.

It's about a month now. Are you saying Macs are only good for applications ? that would make no sense, why build such a great machine for applications only. If I were ceo of Mac I would be addressing the game industry first, I know so many that would buy a Mac tomorrow if were game ready, and I dont mean Tommy the jumping clown Math I am talking about Fear, Quake, Crysis ect. I swear there must be a reason other than they have no interest, no way everyone wants to make money and Apple is no exception. ALso for the Game industry is hudge, Grapics cards are designed to run games, everyone knows this. Go into any computer store and youll find isles and isles of games, and two isles of Applications. I have read on this forum people asking what the Mac pro can do for games. The new 45 n is geared towards games, typ in gaming industry in google and see for your self here is a quote"The video-game market for personal computers continues to grow into a key market in the computer industry.
Users in the United States spent $1.4 billion on video games for PCs in 2005, according to research released by analysts NPD Group this week.

Of that, $344 million came from subscriptions to online games and gaming Web sites, according to NPD's estimate.

Meanwhile, Verizon Games, purveyor of several online gaming options, has partnered with Super Computer International Inc. to create a new model for gaming servers.

I am not here to debate that is easy, I like the reliability of Macs, I can list thousands, the Mac pro 8 core is beyond and PC power wise, I will invest as I am sure thousands will if it can run windows with dx10 and Pcie 16bt and later crossfire or SLI, if you are a hard core gamer you know what the Mac pro means in power for games and game servers. Why should a machine be held back buy a simple Video card? is it because MS has the 90% share of games on the PC with DX10? and Apple has been bared from the scene and only allowed to have so much technology? Rights with video card makers, seems odd. If someone has a Mac pro 8 core could you test this for me ? I would really appreciate it
 
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It's about a month now. Are you saying Macs are only good for applications ? that would make no sense, why build such a great machine for applications only. If I were ceo of Mac I would be addressing the game industry first, I know so many that would buy a Mac tomorrow if were game ready, and I dont mean Tommy the jumping clown Math I am talking about Fear, Quake, Crysis ect. I swear there must be a reason other than they have no interest, no way everyone wants to make money and Apple is no exception. ALso for the Game industry is hudge, Grapics cards are designed to run games, everyone knows this. Go into any computer store and youll find isles and isles of games, and two isles of Applications. I have read on this forum people asking what the Mac pro can do for games. The new 45 n is geared towards games, typ in gaming industry in google and see for your self here is a quote"The video-game market for personal computers continues to grow into a key market in the computer industry.
Users in the United States spent $1.4 billion on video games for PCs in 2005, according to research released by analysts NPD Group this week.

Of that, $344 million came from subscriptions to online games and gaming Web sites, according to NPD's estimate.

Meanwhile, Verizon Games, purveyor of several online gaming options, has partnered with Super Computer International Inc. to create a new model for gaming servers.

I am not here to debate that is easy, I like the reliability of Macs, I can list thousands, the Mac pro 8 core is beyond and PC power wise, I will invest as I am sure thousands will if it can run windows with dx10 and Pcie 16bt and later crossfire or SLI, if you are a hard core gamer you know what the Mac pro means in power for games and game servers. Why should a machine be held back buy a simple Video card? is it because MS has the 90% share of games on the PC with DX10? and Apple has been bared from the scene and only allowed to have so much technology? Rights with video card makers, seems odd. If someone has a Mac pro 8 core could you test this for me ? I would really appreciate it

First, the Mac Pro was release on the 8th, just over 2 weeks ago.

I know nothing about computer gaming. I wanted to see if you could find some facts to back your argument that "Gamers out rank any other type of user in the Market." That's all. :)
Personally, I couldn't justify purchasing a $2000 computer to play a video game. My PS3 works just fine at a fraction of the cost. Nor do I care at the moment to go back to the Windows environment.
The Penryn chip was not designed for gaming. It is simply the next step to make a faster processor that runs cooler and draws less power.
If Apple was to built a gaming rig, how much of the 1.4 billion spent on video games would they see? None seeing Apple doesn't design games nor would they if they were to design a gaming rig.
If building gaming rigs was such a great market, one would think Apple would be all over that side of the market. I think Apple has made it quite clear they're not interested in the gaming market, so until you're the "CEO of Mac", I would suggest buying a PC to play computer games.
As for the rest of what you said, I couldn't finish reading. Please work on your grammar and sentence structure. You're not going to get much help around here. It's difficult to read what you wrote because of the run-ons, fragments, etc....
 
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The guy wasn't saying that Apple should build a dedicated gaming rig. I think he has a bit of a legitimate point. Follow my argument --

- Gaming IS a big market (certainly not THE biggest market, not by a long stretch, but it's not insignificant)
- Most of Apple's focus is the consumer market
- There are likely SOME (perhaps many) consumers that take their gaming seriously, and might let something like video capability sway their decision, as far as Mac vs PC.

But here's the thing, it's not like Mac have *no* gaming capability. They have enough to satisfy most gamers, I would think, maybe not those at the super high-end.

I think it's partly a question of tradeoffs. Part of Apple's thing is to have a very simplified product line (not a lot of models, SKUs), & also elegant design. Taking the iMacs for example, if Apple were to stick in a better graphics chip, the computer would have to cost more, and it might need a bigger case to allow for the ventilation of the extra heat. So they probably do the math and figure that it's worth giving up some of the hardcore gamers in exchange for a lower-priced, sleeker computer. If they were some other computer company, they might also offer a fatter more expensive model with a heavy duty GPU. But they're Apple, so they don't.

Turning to the Mac Pro, they've got the 8800 GT now and that should be plenty for most people -- even 85% of gamers. Is it worth the added cost/effort of having SLI support or whatever for the extra 15% of the market? Maybe not. The thing is that a lot of the super high-end gamers also like to heavily customize their PCs and tweak things (overclocking, getting funky looking cases with LED-lit fans, all that crap) -- people like that might never buy a Mac in their first place since it doesn't lend itself to that type of tweaking.

I think historically they figured there were bigger fish to fry than the gaming market, and now that they're running on Intel, the simple fact that you can use boot camp or Parallels is good enough for a lot of gamers anyway.
 
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That's the thing, if Apple was going to make a gaming rig, they'd inevitably be supporting Windows. There are only a handful of games for Mac so most gamers would just boot to Windows and skip using OS X.
 
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I traded my office desktop for a Imac 20' and I have Vista 64 on it, it runs vista smooth and nice but its no osx. I brought it home for the weekend and my Kids were like, whats that, Oh we have apples at schhol and they suck, Sunday Night, Dad do you have tp bring this back to the office, its cool. I hear what your saying but most recent Macs can run windows so I dont think that would be the reasons and If it was who cares, Imagine running windows better and faster on a mac, you could choose between what you want, thats what most Mac owners do othe than the hard core I hate Microsoft. Anyway, it a debate thats old and worn. I really like the Mac Pro what a beauty, I just want to know if the Nvidia 8800 will run in windows with directx, why would Nvidia leave this out, driver or not they are the same as the PC version just a differnt rom or something. I would order one but there is no returns once used. I just hope someone can find out soon for me.
 
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The guy wasn't saying that Apple should build a dedicated gaming rig. I think he has a bit of a legitimate point. Follow my argument --

- Gaming IS a big market (certainly not THE biggest market, not by a long stretch, but it's not insignificant)
- Most of Apple's focus is the consumer market
- There are likely SOME (perhaps many) consumers that take their gaming seriously, and might let something like video capability sway their decision, as far as Mac vs PC.

But here's the thing, it's not like Mac have *no* gaming capability. They have enough to satisfy most gamers, I would think, maybe not those at the super high-end.

I think it's partly a question of tradeoffs. Part of Apple's thing is to have a very simplified product line (not a lot of models, SKUs), & also elegant design. Taking the iMacs for example, if Apple were to stick in a better graphics chip, the computer would have to cost more, and it might need a bigger case to allow for the ventilation of the extra heat. So they probably do the math and figure that it's worth giving up some of the hardcore gamers in exchange for a lower-priced, sleeker computer. If they were some other computer company, they might also offer a fatter more expensive model with a heavy duty GPU. But they're Apple, so they don't.

Turning to the Mac Pro, they've got the 8800 GT now and that should be plenty for most people -- even 85% of gamers. Is it worth the added cost/effort of having SLI support or whatever for the extra 15% of the market? Maybe not. The thing is that a lot of the super high-end gamers also like to heavily customize their PCs and tweak things (overclocking, getting funky looking cases with LED-lit fans, all that crap) -- people like that might never buy a Mac in their first place since it doesn't lend itself to that type of tweaking.

I think historically they figured there were bigger fish to fry than the gaming market, and now that they're running on Intel, the simple fact that you can use boot camp or Parallels is good enough for a lot of gamers anyway.

Very true, I just think if your going to design a Mac pro such as the eight core lets take it to that level, I mean they wil leventualluy. I just got a email from a friend who said Apple Mac pro is capable of cross fire and SLI and Ati is currently making such a card for Apple and the Mac pro has the features and was designed to support it in DX 10 in windows, thats encouraging but its Ati and they are a little bit behind in the FPS of gamming cards. So if this is true I guess we will soon see but I would like to have someone tell me MY Mac pro runs DX10, I will be a very happpy guy.
 
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1. You need windows Vista to work with DX10 and the 8800 line is all DX10 based, same with ATI 2900 and up line.

2. I dont think the mac based motherboards support SLI (it is bios based)

3. crossfire the same, it has to be supported in the chipset and in the bios
and it would be either SLI or Xfire, it would not support both, for it to work with SLI it would have to have an NVIDIA based chipset (680i/780i) which i dont beleive Apple has, for Xfire an intel or ati based chipset.

3.The PCIe is likely 32 total, so it would probably be 16/8/4/4 or it could be 8/8/8/8

but it would not work in quad xfire or quad SLI (which is more or less garbage anyways due to limitations of directx not being able to call more then 3 frames ahead so the 4th cards is basically a waste, why triple SLI is /has been released.


The 8800GT is plenty for most games out now (except poorly coded ones like Crysis) but most all other games will run more then fine in it that Apple has out now for OSX.


Your Mac Pro wont run DX10 unless you install Vista in bootcamp. (directX isnt in OSX it is a windows API only more or less)
 
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3.The PCIe is likely 32 total, so it would probably be 16/8/4/4 or it could be 8/8/8/8

As I previously mentioned, it's 16/16/4/4 according to Apple.

Copied from the Apple Tech Specs:

PCI Express expansion7

Three open full-length PCI Express expansion slots
One PCI Express 2.0 x16 slot
Two PCI Express x4 slots
All slots provide mechanical support for 16-lane cards
300W combined maximum for all PCI Express slots

This doesn't consider the slot with the video card in it see its not open because the slot had the card in it.
 
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I traded my office desktop for a Imac 20' and I have Vista 64 on it....

Your "Mac Specs" say "Mac nothing yet."
Which is it? Do you own a Mac or not?

Apple was able to make their computers Windows compatible with the move to the Intel processor and with BootCamp. Although they allow to you install Windows over the OS X partition of the HD, BootCamp wasn't designed to do that. Windows is OS X's biggest competitor. I don't think it's Apple's plan to give Windows more market share by building a machine (a gaming Mac) that 90% of its users will use to boot to Windows so they can get their game on.
Yes, Mac Pro's are super powerful and they could do well in the gaming market but the market is so oversaturated with Windows and their technologies (DX10), it's just not a smart move to go in that direction.
 

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I am in the stage of deciding between a Mac Pro or a PC, the PC would have essentially the same graphics’ card, my primary goal is games,

That last statement pretty much answers your question. If games are top on the priority list, the Mac is not your best choice. Yes, it can run Windows, but in terms of how these machines are designed, Apple considers this capability to be low on the priority list.

secondary goal is office, digital photograph and fun for kids. So I have listed my questions that I cant seem to get any answers for so I hope you can help me. Yes I know some say Mac is not for games, why not ? you cant get a PC with that power so why can’t she run games ?

The Mac Pro is designed as a high end graphics workstation more than a consumer friendly gaming rig. You certainly can get a high-end rig built for gaming from companies like Dell (their XPS line), HP (Blackbird line) as well as countless others like Alienware, Voodoo, etc. While the Mac Pro may look very much like a gaming rig in terms of specs, it was designed for other power hungry tasks like Final Cut Pro (video editing) and Photoshop, among other prosumer tasks.

Why can't it play games? It certainly can, but that wasn't what it was designed for. Boot Camp driver updates are few and far between - certainly not as quick as what you would see from NVIDIA/ATI (although these can be installed), but more than anything else, this is a very expensive solution for playing games - and for most people that feel strongly about games, a PC is a more cost-effective solution.

Not to mention the fact that much of the hardware does not conform to standards, so it's not as easily upgradeable. Most serious games swap their motherboards, CPUs, graphics cards, etc on a regular basis. You just can't do that with a Mac Pro.

What about games for OS X? It's been reported in the press time and time again that Apple is not serious about games. They don't have the robust set of gaming APIs that Windows does (like DirectX) and many of the Mac 'ports' are ported using Cider, which is inefficient at best. Again, it's just not high on Apple's priority list. I'm not going to argue what Apple's priorities should be, because I don't set them. Just know that there are different tools for different jobs and if gaming is your thing - the Mac is not the ideal platform.

NVIDIA 8800 GT Is the DX10 capable in windows ?

Yes, the 8800GT is a DX10 card.

Booting into windows do you lose any of the capabilities of the card? will it still be 512?

No, because it's the same hardware as what you would find in a PC, just different drivers under OS X. In Windows, they're the same drivers.

I'd be willing to bet that since SLI is supported in the hardware, it's probably going to work under Windows with an appropriate driver. But I don't believe that the OS X drivers support SLI (yet).

Either way, I think we'd be doing you a severe disservice to suggest going with a Mac, because it seems like your priorities would point you toward a PC. The bottom line for me is that if you can tolerate Windows, I don't think it makes a bit of sense to reinvent the wheel and switch over to Mac.
 
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Hi, thank you for the great info, No I do not own a Mac personally I use one at work and like it very much. It is error free, I have windows on it only so I can access Mionet Server and my Canon 8180c as there are no drivers for Mac. I heard you can SLI video cards in Windows but nothing firm yet. Yes I could go out and buy a $6000.00 dollars Dell xps (with a inefficient power supply and cooling problems and the list goes on) but I don’t want to invest in poor quality. Gaming is a high priority for me as I have been gaming since 94' and I am still currently gaming and compete on several servers. I am willing to sacrifice some areas as I already have a gaming system with and 8800 ultra, no big deal, I just want a super system and with a pro I wont need to swap out mother boards as the current chip set will be around for awhile, I hope. I guess I truly wont know until I buy one and see for my self, but hey I guess when I do I will report back my finding here so that we will know for sure from a real gamers point of view how Mac stands in the game realm. I know at some point apple will be a contender in the market. I will post my finding so check back in a month, I will order my system tonight.

Thanks for all your replies I found them very helpful.
 
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Wow, talk about some rude and unhelpful answers. Sure, the OP isn't asking about something you specifically care about, and his grammer and spelling isn't perfect but neither was yours.

So here is a more useful answer (hopefully):

NVIDIA 8800 GT Is the DX10 capable in windows ?
Booting into windows do you lose any of the capabilities of the card? will it still be 512?
Booting into Windows results in full access to the card. This includes full access to the video RAM, feature-set, etc. Being an nVidia 8000 series card, you will be able to run DX10 applications, but to do that you will need run Vista (not XP) which isn't ideal but will work fine.
can I buy two NVIDIA 8800gt and use both as one video car in windows?
In theory, you can run two 8800GTs but Apple don't offer this as a standard configuration. This is probably due to both heat and power considerations. The Quadro card takes two auxillary power inputs, but the 8800 only takes one so that suggests that it is technically possible however I would do more research on this first. Remember that only one of the PCI-Express slots on this board is 16x, the rest are 8x slots. On the older Mac Pro you could configure the bandwidth per slot using software, but on this one you are locked in. This means that only the first card will run at full speed. I tried to find a tech reference to confirm this, but couldn't so there's a chance I'm mistaken about the secondary slots (they may be a mix of 4x and 8x).

This in turns suggests that SLI and Crossfire configurations, while potentially do-able, aren't going to yield particularly impressive performance gains.

Also, you only have 300W of power to play with (absolute max) on the PCI-Express bus for this machine, so dual 8800s means no raid controller or any other PCI cards.

Finally on this, under OSX you won't be able to use an SLI or Crossfire configuration - there is no support for the master/slave ATI cards under OSX and no nVidia SLI support either so you would probably find yourself running nothing but Windows if you went down this path.
Is the Mac able to support two ATI Radeon HD in crossfire in windows ?
Quite probably, as Crossfire does not seem to be particularly heavily dependent on BIOS or chipset. Still, going back to PCI slot bandwidth and OSX support for the cards, this isn't an ideal config.
The four PCI-E buses are they x16t or is x16 shared between the four?
Answered above (I think).


You want a gaming rig that also runs OSX, has some basic expansion options, and is much more powerful than anything else you've used. So a Mac Pro is a reasonably good answer. The Harpertown processors aren't specifically designed for gamers, but then again few CPUs are - games just happen to demand a LOT of processing power, and the Mac Pro meets that requirement. Multi-threaded games are going to have far more processing grunt than they can reasonably expect to use.

The video card options aren't too bad either - the 8800GT isn't quite at the level of the 8800 Ultra, but it is close. It will, however, age and Apple have a history of never upgrading their video cards (old Mac Pro owners will agree with this, and are still sobbing over their inability to use the new 8800GT card on their 6 month old workstations). So if you want to run OSX on your machine, bear in mind that video card upgrades are not likely to be easy and may not even be possible.

Mac Pro RAM isn't cheap, they went for server-grade memory which means it costs an arm an a leg. Still, OWC will sell you 4GB for $200 USD these days so building a machine with 6GB isn't totally out of the question. And yes, games use a LOT of memory but under Windows won't use more than 4GB (actually, a bit less than this but who cares for the sake of this conversation). If you plan on using VMWare Fusion or Parallels Desktop under OSX, I'd strongly advise 6GB of RAM. If you plan on doing extremely heavy video or graphic manipulation, 3D rendering, or serious CAD, the rule of thumb seems to be 1GB RAM per CPU core (so 8GB). Fortunately there are 8 slots, so you can upgrade in stages if you like.

Hard drives in the Mac Pro are easily replaced, and are one area where they really did great work. And the box is quiet, looks cool, is reliable, and comes with a sexy operating system on it.

This model of Mac Pro is very new, so don't expect to find a whole lot of definitive information out there - with a 3 week+ shipping delay on 8800GT equiped units, very few people have their hands on one yet.

Personally, I've been playing Windows-based games since PCs came into existence. My Mac Pro is on order, and will replace my Core 2 E6600 based workstation (4GB RAM, 8800GTS, 2TB disk, dual LCD, etc). I've ordered an extra 4GB of RAM and a couple of 1TB hard disks (from a third-party, Apple wanted my firstborn for them) and opted for the 8800GT. In my view, for day-to-day use it won't be noticably faster but for gaming it will scream. I'm going to run mine in OSX most of the time and use VMWare Fusion to retain access to my Windows applications. Gaming will require me to bootcamp into XP (so no DX10), but that is bearable. Sure, it'll be an expensive machine. But I see it outlasting any machine on the market right now.

Hopefully all this help.

Oh, and guys? Once in a while try helping the guy out instead of mocking him for wanting to do something you don't agree with? bryphotoguy, you come across as a real bully in your posts - perhaps it isn't intentional, or perhaps you just are one. Either way, wind it back eh?
 
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As I previously mentioned, it's 16/16/4/4 according to Apple.

Copied from the Apple Tech Specs:

PCI Express expansion7

Three open full-length PCI Express expansion slots
One PCI Express 2.0 x16 slot
Two PCI Express x4 slots
All slots provide mechanical support for 16-lane cards
300W combined maximum for all PCI Express slots

This doesn't consider the slot with the video card in it see its not open because the slot had the card in it.

Am I a bully because I mentioned that needs to work on his grammar and sentence structure? It was only a warning. There are many people here who refuse to help someone who doesn't care to write a proper sentence. I am trying to make sure he gets the help he was looking for. Just like how I am mentioning to you that you need to fix your post and remove the cursing and/ or symbols because both are illegal.

Anyways, good first first post. I recopied the above info I wrote earlier because it appears you missed that info.
 
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Thank you for pointing out my grammar, I do apologise, I use a HTC handheld, I should be aware of my grammar. I am sorry if some Mac user will not respond to my question due to poor grammar, reminds me of my old professor :D "oh my god heaven forbid" I think all replies were helpful. When you go and spend $7,500 on a computer you want to learn as much as you can before purchase. The PciE and GPU are very important to me as I play hardcore games, I am truly sorry about that. I'm 35 own my own company have 45 employees, clients who are well known to you all, a great family and 3 cars that would make you drool, who am I?? who cares, but even if I have
enough spare change in my Ashtray to buy a Mac pro I would still answer anyone's questions bad grammar or not. Everyone deserves respect even if they cant spell. Blah blllaaaa blaa. So anyway thank you so much for your
replies they truly have been helpful, I will continue to post here (from a gamers point of view) and will hopefully be able to add some value to this forum regarding game performance on the MAc pro, some won't care but others like me will. Hmm I think my tag will be Mac Gamer lol. Lurgen thank you for the info and help its people like you that I choose to be on my
team because you stand out from the rest and really help others and are not biased because they spell bad, I am sure away from this post you would be an awesome buddy. Thank you and I will continue reading this thread and posting in others and hopefully I can provide help like you did for someone like me with impossible questions and bad grammar. ;D
 
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Your Mac's Specs
Quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro, Edge iPhone
Cool and welcome.
What's an HTC handheld?

There are plenty of questions people have about using their iMac for gaming so there are a few Windows gamers on the boards. We're all here to learn so any first hand gaming experience you get will be most helpful.

We're just kinda warning you that there are much better systems out there for gaming than the Mac Pro. I've seen plenty of tests ran where people made their own PC equivalents to the Mac Pro and they've come out faster for gaming. None of them can legally run OS X but that's a trade off any gamer must sacrifice if they want a gaming machine that also has the ability to run OS X.

As for grammar, I sort of agree with those who won't help people with bad grammar. I seriously went over one of your posts, no offense to you because you can write, no less than 5 times and I was still confused about what you were asking. I gave up helping you in frustration.

Anyways, glad you're staying and hope you like your Mac Pro! It's the greatest computer I've ever purchased.

Curious though, you really didn't spend $7500 on it, did you? Apple's RAM and HD upgrades are very overpriced. No one here recommends purchasing those upgrades from Apple. What'd you buy?
 

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