United States of America ZERO!

anarkhy said:

Bush could have moved in with other nations peacefully and put a stop to some of the problems there...

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You mean like had been tried to no avail for the 10 years prior? Exactly what should they have done to "move in" and put a stop to things peacefully that they hadn't already tried?

Wow i think we know who Schweb is voting for...

The Bush Family is an embarassment to America

Scweb said "You mean like had been tried to no avail for the 10 years prior? Exactly what should they have done to "move in" and put a stop to things peacefully that they hadn't already tried?"
Are you kidding? In the early 90s Bush didn't go in peacefully or with the support of the other Nations, Now it's 03 and Bush does the same thing, trying to suck up to daddy, "look daddy i can start a war". George W. Bush took advantage of power and abused it to death. The only real reason he WANTED to go in there is so that he could drive his gas guzzeling SUV and say "america is the best, dude"

Schweb said "I'm not going to comment on whether I agree with the war or Bush, but I do want to put some perspective on this comment.

Just because the "rest of the world" (debatable in this instance) disagrees doesn't mean we are doing the wrong thing. Last time I checked, we weren't run by the ineffectual UN. The same UN that is mainly populated by dictators and had Saddam Hussein's Iraq as head of the Human Rights Commission. Does this make any sense to anyone?

I guess to put it in an even greater historical perspective....most of the world thought we should leave Hitler and Nazi Germany alone before WWII. Anyone still think we should have done that?"

The point is that Bush shouldn't of just said "forget about the rest of the world if i want to go blow up a place i am going to blow it up!" He should have consulted with the UN and abided by what they said. And yes i still think that we should not have taken Nazi Germany like we did, we ruined peoples lives out in Germany, we destroyed there houses, farms, food sources, Everything, and we killed innocent people. And what did we do after it was over... nothing, we didn't rebuild their houses, we didn't give them money, nothing. It wasn't right!

Wow the rhetoric amazes me....

As for us not doing anything for Germany after WWII, did you actually pass history in high school?

Check out a little thing called The Marshall Plan.

And again how is the UN a model for freedom when it's run by mainly dictators and have countries that commit atrocities running the Human Rights Commission?

And as far as who I'm voting for, I never made that a secret. If you actually ever went to my homepage, it's pretty obvious

Wapa18 said:

i think you should all read this. it's an email i got from a friend:

As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to
say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very
poor job of covering everything that has happened. *I am sorry that I have not
been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home.
*
And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that
is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you.
*
This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: *(Please share
it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is
producing):
*
· * * * *Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time
ever in Iraq.
· * * * *Over 400,000 kids have up to date immunizations.
· * * * *Over 1500 schools have been renovated and ridded of the weapons that
were stored there so education can occur.
· * * * *The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off loaded from
ships faster.
· * * * *School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
· * * * *The country had it's first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
· * * * *The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
*
*
· * * * *100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed compared to 35%
before the war.
· * * * *Elections are taking place in every major city and city councils are
in place.
· * * * *Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
· * * * *Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
· * * * *Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
· * * * *Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side
with US soldiers.
· * * * *Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.
· * * * *Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to
prevent the spread of germs.
· * * * *An interim constitution has been signed.
· * * * *Girls are allowed to attend school for the first time ever in Iraq.
· * * * *Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first
time in 30 years.
*
Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. *I have
met many, many people from Iraq that want us there and in a bad way.
*
They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their
children will. *We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone,
anywhere to dispute me on these facts. *So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be
sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. * This soldier
will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this
period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them
know there are good things happening.
*
Ray Reynolds, SFC
Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion



that's definitely something to think about

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You said you got this from a "friend" right? that's interesting because this was spamed at my hotmail account twice, and no it wasn't forwarded a bunch of times, it was SPAMED, sent to [email protected], [email protected] and so on nd so on... which means this is just some stunt by some Bush lover, or parhaps the Bush admin themselves. Obvious this is not true, because these facts would be all over the place. I know people personally who went over there, and NO it's not as pretty as it sounds in that letter, little kis are seperated from there families all the time, and there hiding in the streets while men with explosives are ten feet away... For God's sake, THERE TEN YEARS OLD! you can't expose them to that. It isn't right!

schweb said:

Thank you for truly not answering either question I posted

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i did answer your questions( not that there was much to answer, you wrote a couple of sentences) and you were no at all clear about you statements, not presenting any support data... you would be bad in debates.

anarkhy said:

The only real reason he WANTED to go in there is so that he could drive his gas guzzeling SUV and say "america is the best, *****"

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BTW, remove the profanity from your post. I've already warned you once. Stars, masking, or other things don't cut it. Last chance...

anarkhy said:

] Obvious this is not true, because these facts would be all over the place. I know people personally who went over there, and NO it's not as pretty as it sounds in that letter,

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Yeah, I didn't think It was true due to the fact that people all over the nation/world are getting it. It makes no sense for someone who isn't actually over there to send it. Im not saying the friend that sent it to you isn't over there, its based on my personal account with this letter.

communists aren't allow to debate american politics.

Nobody here is debating.... Never mind, yes we ae debating, but the point is that it would be a disaster if Bush is re-elected. He is just a stereotypicle politition trying to lie his way through.

vuschejan said:

Yeah, I didn't think It was true due to the fact that people all over the nation/world are getting it. It makes no sense for someone who isn't actually over there to send it. Im not saying the friend that sent it to you isn't over there, its based on my personal account with this letter.

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this email isn't the only thing i've gotten. i actually have close friends who have gone over there, and they tell me the exact same things. they tell me they want to go back and help even more, because great things are being done there. and no, these friends of mine don't support bush.

Wapa18 said:

this email isn't the only thing i've gotten. i actually have close friends who have gone over there, and they tell me the exact same things. they tell me they want to go back and help even more, because great things are being done there. and no, these friends of mine don't support bush.

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i have tons of friends who went over there, and they say it's by far the worst things they have ever seen, whole towns being torn apart, just so that the people who survived have nothing to eat or any shelter. We got so pissed about 9/11, well a lot more people are going to die is this war then 9/11. I HATE America, and i hate that i live in this place. As soon as i get the chance, i am moving to Italy, England, or China. Because i am not going to have my tax money go towards killing people.

This is not the america it was 100 years ago, this isn't what america stands for.

Schweb the hard part that I see is that.. let's say you go to a college, or you work for a company, by going to that school or working at that company you agree to follow it's rules. Now that's what we should do when we joined the UN, by joining anything you agree to follow the rules by said entity. I don't agree with Bush, I don't agree with Kerry, but I did need to point that out.

Also every single person that I know of that has gone over to Iraq has come back and talked about the horrors, one even stopped going to our church because she just stopped believing in God.. that's harsh.. that's very harsh. No the horrors are real, very real.

I like how this argument was started by someone who isn't even American and lives in a communistic society. Personally, I can't stand either one of them, but I can't see John Kerry as our next president.

Murlyn said:

Schweb the hard part that I see is that.. let's say you go to a college, or you work for a company, by going to that school or working at that company you agree to follow it's rules. Now that's what we should do when we joined the UN, by joining anything you agree to follow the rules by said entity. I don't agree with Bush, I don't agree with Kerry, but I did need to point that out.

Also every single person that I know of that has gone over to Iraq has come back and talked about the horrors, one even stopped going to our church because she just stopped believing in God.. that's harsh.. that's very harsh. No the horrors are real, very real.

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Chicoweb said:

I like how this argument was started by someone who isn't even American and lives in a communistic society. Personally, I can't stand either one of them, but I can't see John Kerry as our next president.

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Im going to have to agree with Murlyn on that I dont like John Kerry or Bush. I dont agree with either of them but siding on a few of my points is Bush. However, He may agree to some of my opinions but his relationship with foreigners on the fact that he dosnt really pay much attention to the UN would come before my opinions on his agreement with my personal opinions. In the same way agreeing with chicoweb I cant see either of them being the next president

ChicoWeb said:

I like how this argument was started by someone who isn't even American and lives in a communistic society. Personally, I can't stand either one of them, but I can't see John Kerry as our next president.

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@ ChicoWeb:
Sorry i need to correct you. I'm not living amongst the communistic society as you see it, I'm in-fact living on a island that has two systems, to which the PRC is very close to, although they have a say in what's going on here, they don't govern this land.

@ Schweb:
Yes, i do have complete freedom, freedom to information and freedom to speak and express one's opinion. No China isn't the most humane country out there, but they are learning from it's pass mistakes, which i think is important.


From the events that shock the world back in June 1984, China have come a long way for a country that has many internal problems. It's a very young country with many things to learn and i think they are doing really well despite it's huge population problem. Yes many regions are living in shear poverty, you can take a bus ride for 10 mins and see a completely different way of life but for these people it's life and it's a simple life.

To me, what western outsiders might think or see in the media, doesn't really concern me. Unlike some of you people, if this land isn't right or suitable for me, i can leave and move on. I am in-fact a EU citizen with multi-nations citizenship able to move almost anywhere without the need of a green-card.

What your president or government does doesn't really concern me either and I don't really care. But when other innocent victims get hurt, killed, or family lives are ruined due to your president or government actions i think the people of the world have the right to express his or her opinions, even though we're not US nationals. Now, with your elections coming up, I think personally it's time for a change.

You know what Bush is like, he's been a ruler for your land for a few years now. Tell us, what has he done to improve your state of well being? Is your economy better off? Are corporations making more money than before? How are the stocks in general, have they increased significantly? Do you think there are more nations now that see USA as being friendly? Do tell... Because i think there are many nations that have turned there backs on USA, as being a non co-operative nation, who doesn't keep it's promises. Take North Korea for example, before bush there were progress in peace talks regarding the disposal of nuclear weapons. And now... well... they have completely ignored bush with his non-negotiating tactics. You think this method works? Well, does it? I don't.

Personally, i hope the rebuild of the Middle-east will cost the USA more then one hundred thousand billion dollars. It seems that the US is a country of money and without colour, one can't talk. Maybe this gross waste of money will teach future president and governments how not to handle things. Maybe you voters might like to think about what the role of the president is besides national security; no wait, don't you have the NAS?

Good luck to the elections, hope you get what you people really want. Personally world peace would be nice, without barbarick, no brainier barbarians going to wars on the commands of a once all talking drunken lout. Hate to see how he's like as a family man.

This is just my opinion.

Al Gore is a boar...or bore. However you want to view it. Clinton...eh..an alright president. Did some good things..did some bad things...Gore did nothing for me...and God..if he would've been president...well, I would probably be doing the same thing I'm doing now...but I'd be pissed at Gore..I know I would.

TylerMoney said:

Al Gore is a boar...or bore. However you want to view it. Clinton...eh..an alright president. Did some good things..did some bad things...Gore did nothing for me...and God..if he would've been president...well, I would probably be doing the same thing I'm doing now...but I'd be pissed at Gore..I know I would.

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What exactly did Bush "do for you"?