New MBP::Disappointed & Returning to Apple

So I bought a new 15" MBP. What a disappointment to say the least - the screen resolution and sharpness in OSX is awful compared to Windows XP using ClearType. No amount of tweaking/adjusting fixes the problem. The native resolution on a 15.4" screen should be 1680x1050, but for some reason Apple makes the max resolution 1400x900 and the text looks blurred/out of focus.

I was hoping that after spending a few hours getting BootCamp setup and Win XP installed that I could at least get the resolution to the correct setting of 1680x1050 in Windows, but no go. The Nvidia setup program only allows for the Apple 1400x900 and some other out of proportion settings that either stretch the screen or shrink it down.

Live and learn I guess - this machine is going back to Apple tomorrow! I'll have to take a $250.00 "opened package" hit, but I guess that's better than keeping a $2500.00 system that is clearly flawed.

Maybe Apple will get it right with the next version of the MBP's...

dont do it man
why do u want the extra resolution anyway
and did u get the LED display?

amrk47 said:

dont do it man
why do u want the extra resolution anyway
and did u get the LED display?

Click to expand...

It's not that I want the extra resolution, but 1680x1050 is the proper resolution for a 15.4" widescreen to make all the the text on the screen look correct. When you decrease the resolution from there, the screen sharpness degrades.

And, yes it's the LED screen (I think all the MBP's are LED now?)

It's really disappointing, because I love the lightweight and style of the machine, but it's just not real usable for me with it being crippled like that.

Actual physical size of the screen has little to nothing to do with its native resolution. One one hand you have a 20" Apple Cinema Display which has the 1680x1050 resolution, and on the other hand you have 60+ inch HDTVs with a 1330x768 native display. I'm not sure what the native resolution is on the MacBook Pro, nor am I familiar with the newer LED screens.

Did you bloody bother to read the specs before you bought the machine.
From the specs sheet: 1440 x 900 resolution

As for the blurry text. That is a feature. Do some reading and you'll find it is the difference between how Microsoft thinks and how Apple thinks.

Uh 1650 X 1080 is the native resolution of my 22" displays. To expect that on a 15.4" notebook is unrealistic. Some PC notebooks may allow you to run at higher resolutions but running the screen at a higher resolution than its native resolution can damage it.

joec1101 said:

It's not that I want the extra resolution, but 1680x1050 is the proper resolution for a 15.4" widescreen to make all the the text on the screen look correct. When you decrease the resolution from there, the screen sharpness degrades.

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I was on Dell's site as well as other Laptop computer sites and fail to see how 1680x1050 is the Default panel resolution on ALL 15.4" displays. Most I found were less than your MBP in fact. Here is a $1900 Sony for one.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000B63LZY/?tag=macforums0e4-20

Way less resolution.

What you are seeing on OSX is the different way OSX and Windows address Fonts & Text. If it really bothers you that much, take it back and get a PC.

I stare at My 20" iMac for hours on end and my eyes never hurt like they did on Windows Systems I have and still have to use.

joec1101 said:

So I bought a new 15" MBP. What a disappointment to say the least - the screen resolution and sharpness in OSX is awful compared to Windows XP using ClearType. No amount of tweaking/adjusting fixes the problem. The native resolution on a 15.4" screen should be 1680x1050, but for some reason Apple makes the max resolution 1400x900 and the text looks blurred/out of focus.

I was hoping that after spending a few hours getting BootCamp setup and Win XP installed that I could at least get the resolution to the correct setting of 1680x1050 in Windows, but no go. The Nvidia setup program only allows for the Apple 1400x900 and some other out of proportion settings that either stretch the screen or shrink it down.

Live and learn I guess - this machine is going back to Apple tomorrow! I'll have to take a $250.00 "opened package" hit, but I guess that's better than keeping a $2500.00 system that is clearly flawed.

Maybe Apple will get it right with the next version of the MBP's...

Click to expand...

The text looks "blurry" because of the fonts. Apple renders fonts different to Microsoft: Microsoft disregards certain font characteristics to fit the letters fully into the corresponding pixels. This can make text look sharper on a computer display, but you're not viewing a) the font you want b) how it will print. Apple, having their roots in the print industry, and dare I say it, having more taste, just show you the font as it should look. Windows users often complain of "blurry" text in OS X, and Mac users will complain of "odd", "slim" or "pixelated" text in Windows... it's just something you get used to and don't notice until you change.

As for the resolution; the display's native resolution is 1440x900... even if you could increase it through software, everything would look blurry as the software tries to display more than 1 physical pixel's worth of information into a single pixel. I think you'll find 1440x900 is standard for a 15.4" display; 1680x1050 is the relm of 17" - 22" displays. If you hook it up to a higher resolution screen, the MacBook Pro will output a lot higher (2560 x 1600 or more [I forget exactly, but it will do at-least that]).

Please do take the MacBook Pro back, pay the fee, and let us know what you get to replace it?

Have you checked out System Preferences, Appearances, and checked the font smoothing drop box at the bottom of the screen?
I understand that you desire a higher resolution, although the fonts should be smooth, clear and crisp. I got a iMac G3 once I had to return for a faulty screen, Apple replaced it promptly, and I was all set after that.

joec1101 said:

It's not that I want the extra resolution, but 1680x1050 is the proper resolution for a 15.4" widescreen to make all the the text on the screen look correct. When you decrease the resolution from there, the screen sharpness degrades.

And, yes it's the LED screen (I think all the MBP's are LED now?)

It's really disappointing, because I love the lightweight and style of the machine, but it's just not real usable for me with it being crippled like that.

Click to expand...

I think you need to read up on native resolution and what it means, as there is no proper resolution for any given size screen. just what the manufacturer deems the most optimal. so that it is not so small, that everything looks huge, and not so big, that everything is tiny.

by your definition, Sony got it major wrong with the VAIO VGN-FS315M, it's 15.4" screen has a native resolution of 1280x800, and that should be absolutely terrible, yet it is as crisp as crisp can be.

by the same token, all TV manufacturers have got it wrong too, as all the resolutions used by them are far too small, I mean 40" with 1366x768, that must be terrible right?

I think I've made my point, but yes I would agree, the fonts look softer, but I also find that easier on the eyes.

Your eyes will thank you in 5 years, Apple displays fonts the way they should be displayed.
I use both macs and pcs in the office - and I noticeably feel the difference between a day on a PC and a day on my Mac. My eyes are often tired and worn out after a PC day.

Alex

Once again, someone switches to a Mac, expecting a Windows machine.

Please folks, if you really grok Windows and are not willing to accept even the most minute change, then by all means, stick with Windows.

i love my mbp. i think the res is great.

no matter what you choose to do i hope your happy with your final decision

cwa107 said:

Once again, someone switches to a Mac, expecting a Windows machine.

Please folks, if you really grok Windows and are not willing to accept even the most minute change, then by all means, stick with Windows.

Click to expand...

Very wise words, cwa.

joec1101, see the section on Font Rendering in my Linux to Mac Switchers Guide. Per the above, the rendering of fonts between Mac, Linux and Windows is different, based on differing artistic interpretations of how a font should be viewed on screen. You can see the differences directly in my document, where I have embedded screen shots:

http://www.campbell-tx.net/MacOSX/Linux2Mac/linux2mac.html

As a one time switcher myself, I know that it can be a bit hard to get used to the softer font presentation used by Macs. But per the above (and per my guide) believe me you get used to it. Not only do you get used to it, you get to prefer it.

I would not return a glorious MBP over this issue.

With any luck anyway, you test drove one of these machines before buying them? You must have noticed the font rendering at that time. I know I did when I was investigating the purchase of my Mac. I quizzed the salesman deeply on the topic. Ultimately, I decided that it was a price worth paying for the rest of the "Mac goodness". Now I consider it to be *part* of that self same "Mac goodness". I suspect you would too if you give it a chance.

MacHeadCase said:

Very wise words, cwa.

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Thanks - I just don't understand why someone would spend that kind of money when they are perfectly content with Windows - or worse, adamant that an OS must look and function like Windows.

If you like Windows, no one is forcing you to change. There is no particular activity you can do on a Mac that you can't do on a Windows machine (and I'm not talking about specific applications, I'm talking about functionality). It only makes sense to switch if you are at the point where you are fed up and ready for a change. And if that's the case, you should go into the switch embracing the differences - because, after all, you switched because you wanted something different.

cwa107 said:

And if that's the case, you should go into the switch embracing the differences - because, after all, you switched because you wanted something different.

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Exactly!!!!

Windows has been so dominant for so long that a great many people (perhaps most) don't realize that there is more than one way to look at the computing question. Apple definitely presents a "different way" ("think different" anyone? ) and not everyone is at least initially ready to accept that.

I suspect that a lot of people who are looking at Macs these days are just doing so because of the "buzz" around iPods and iPhones, and are somehow expecting a Mac to be simply a PC with a slightly enhanced GUI. Amazing...

cwa107 said:

It only makes sense to switch if you are at the point where you are fed up and ready for a change.

Click to expand...

That totally describes where I was when I switched!!

A Macbook Pro 15.4" native resolution is only 1440x900? Hmmm, don't feel so bad about my Macbook's 1280x800. Of course, I never felt all that bad about its resolution or size in the first place so there you go.

Besides, I have this great big ole' external 22" widescreen I run at 1680x1250, while somehow I just don't feel constrained when using the notebook out in the world.

Well, some people just can't be pleased, and want to squeeze every last dollar for every last feature that Dell/HP/Acer/Toshiba/Microsoft can market people into buying their stuff instead of Apple. That's fine, we'll be okay over here with our inadequately equipped, but very nice to look at Macs. Here, let me look to the right at my Dell- ugh! Ugly! Turn....head...left....ah, there we go.

cwa107 said:

It only makes sense to switch if you are at the point where you are fed up and ready for a change. And if that's the case, you should go into the switch embracing the differences - because, after all, you switched because you wanted something different.

Click to expand...

In some cases I would agree but some of us came to Mac out of curiosity rather then frustration or nessesity. that's OK, if you do it right. Problem is when someone spends the big bucks on curiosity, they will be disapointed every time.

I have a feeling that with the Buzz of Leopard right now, we'll see a few of these come through the forums.

-MikeM