Pbook v ibook?

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i almost got an ibook but when apple upgraded both the ibook and powerbook lines, i decided to opt for the Powerbook, mainly because i wanted something portable, and yet powerful, thats why i got the superdrive 12" and maxed out my ram. That'll do me for a good while, as i'll be going for a Powermac later this year, and i can use my powerbook to show people whatever i'm working on at the time. I love my powerbook, and so do all my windoze friends.
 
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MoltenLava said:
That's because you didn't read my earlier post explaining the speed differences.

And you still haven't really rebutted what I said. I never said there is no difference. I said the difference is a few percentage and it's marginal. Are you disagreeing that, or are you just angry to admit what I said as a PowerBook owner?

BTW, the example you are quoting is all wrong. Photoshop filters don't take hours to complete, especially with vector processing engines in the CPU like Velocity Engine or SSE. 3D rendering and raytracing is pretty much the only application that can take hours or days to complete a task. And guess what? People don't use PowerBook or iBook when they do raytracing! It could have been a close example, but really irrelevant.

If you don't agree with something, say what it is, and back it up.


First of all, I never said "Photoshop filters take hours to complete." (Though back in the Pre-PowerPC days, they sometimes took almost that long.) I said
It's not uncommon to have Photoshop filters take several minutes to complete, and digital video filtering, rendering, and encoding can take several hours to process, even on a "fast" computer.
Which is true. PS can take minutes, and DV can take hours.

As far as PowerBook vs. iBook speed, first check out Apple's website and note that the PowerBook tops out at 1.5GHz. Note that the iBook tops out at 1.2GHz. Look further, and you'll find the PB's have 166MHz system busses, and the iB's have 133MHz system busses. Which means that both processor and memory run at 25% higher clock rates in the top-end models of each.

But, that's just clock speed. Megahertz myth, and all that. What does that mean in real life? I'm so glad you asked.

For those operations (such as DV editing) that depend heavily on processor speed, you will see a noticeable increase. Take a look at the testing on Barefeats and you'll see that a 1.25 GHz PowerBook is about 10% slower than a 1.5GHz PowerBook in Photoshop operations, and about 19% slower in AfterEffects. (Note that AE is a digital video effects application. Note also that the test they ran took over three minutes longer on the slower PB--I' don't consider that "marginal.") Bottom Line: processor clock speed does have a noticeable effect on performance.

(EDIT: Note, also, that in my post, I also said
We're assuming, of course, that a PowerBook is faster because it has a faster CPU clock rate. Since we're comparing Apples to Apples, this is almost certainly the case: an task that requires x amount of time on a 1.2GHz G4 iBook will probably require less-than-x amount of time on a 1.5GHz G4 PowerBook...
I never said anything about a PowerBook being faster just because it says "PowerBook" on the front or because it comes in aluminum instad of polycarbonate. I've got a year-and-a-half old PB with an 867MHz G4 in it. I'd gladly trade it for a 1.2GHz iBook.)
 
M

MickMAC

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Great clarification technologist... you took the words right out of my mouth!

Remember the 3 P's

Professional + Photoshop = Powerbook
 
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MoltenLava

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The conclusion that I can draw from what you are saying is that a computer with faster processor will run application faster, you quoted photoshop, but it applies to any application, than a computer with slower processor. And the speed difference is always less than the difference in CPU speed. That's what I said earlier in the last page.

So what exactly are you disagreeing with me again?
 
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MoltenLava said:
The conclusion that I can draw from what you are saying is that a computer with faster processor will run application faster, you quoted photoshop, but it applies to any application, than a computer with slower processor. And the speed difference is always less than the difference in CPU speed. That's what I said earlier in the last page.

So what exactly are you disagreeing with me again?

My primary contention is, for certain CPU-intensive applications, including Photoshop and digital video applications such as FinalCut, the higher processor speed of a PowerBook yields a significant performance increase. (By "significant," I mean "significant enough to justify the higher cost of the computer through enhanced productivity.")

For less demanding applications, such as web browsing, Email, and word processing, the performance increase would not be noticeable, since these applications do not entail much CPU activity in the first place.

Specifically, I disagree with your post (#5 in this thread) in which you stated:
MoltenLava said:
I personally don't understand the price premium on the PowerBook. The performance difference if any is marginal at best.

...and your successive post (#11 in this thread) in which you concluded :
MoltenLava said:
The performance is not really the factor between the Powerbook and iBook.

Certainly, there are many users who would never notice the performance differences between the two. However, there are also people for whom a laptop with a faster CPU, over the course of weeks and months of work, will "pay for itself" in time saved.
 
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MoltenLava

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So basically from everything I said you chose to nit pick my OPINION about whether Powerbook is worth its price premium, and then called it oversimplification?

Well, the world is full of people with different opinions. I can live with people with different opinion than mine, I hope you can do the same.

The fact still remains, a few percentage in difference in performance does not decide photoshop worthiness of a computer. Whether you are willing to pay premium for slightly faster computer, regardless of type of application you run, is another matter, but I'd say it's more of a function of personal preference and your budget.
 
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ratz

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I think I have been civil, but it is agrevating. How many times do two people have to say it. If using these processor intensive tasks is going to be "your line of work" so to say, it is worth it to get the PowerBook. If you are in a creative field such as Graphic Design or Multimedia/Video production you can actually make the cost difference up in the increase in work that you can do, plus not having the aggrevation of a slower computer, even slightly, goes a long way to keeping your sanity.
 
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Okay, whatever. This is a public board; anyone can post whatever opinon he or she desires. A little debate isn't a bad thing. I've stated my opinion, explained why I hold it, and I stand by it. I'm going to have a nice weekend now, and hope everyone else does the same.
 
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Solafaa

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I used to have a PowerBook but i sold it to my friend in order to get an G4 iBook. I think they look better and feel better, now that they have a superdrive i dont see any reason why to get a powerbook over an iBook. Any laptop you pick will work great for you, just get which one you like better.
 
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thomasr

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The big one for us is video display. My PB drives a second display, doubling the screen area at my desk. Our iBook can only mirror. In any graphics or video -- which is our work -- the extra video display is vital. I can use Final Cut on my 15" PB screen, but it's not a pleasant experience. Even PhotoShop really demands more screen space.
Get a PowerBook. Get a lot of memory. Get a big hard drive. If you travel, the 15" is about as large as will fit in a briefcase.
 
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sursuciofla

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thomasr said:
The big one for us is video display. My PB drives a second display, doubling the screen area at my desk. Our iBook can only mirror. In any graphics or video -- which is our work -- the extra video display is vital. I can use Final Cut on my 15" PB screen, but it's not a pleasant experience. Even PhotoShop really demands more screen space.
Get a PowerBook. Get a lot of memory. Get a big hard drive. If you travel, the 15" is about as large as will fit in a briefcase.

You can patch the ibook to enable screen spanning so that is not a big of an issue that people make it out to be. I use FCP too on my ibook and have the hack.
 
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lil

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sursuciofla said:
You can patch the ibook to enable screen spanning so that is not a big of an issue that people make it out to be. I use FCP too on my ibook and have the hack.

I personally prefer the aluminium look on the PowerBook. The other things I appreciate are the built in line in jack (without needing a dongle such as the excellent iMic from Griffin), and the keyboard which has a much better feel than the iBook's IMO (but I am constantly typing so I tend to notice these things). That said the iBook beats most laptop keyboards.

The other aspect I appreciate on the PowerBook is double the video memory, 64mb vs. 32mb. That said, the ATI Radeon 9550 in the new iBooks (August 2005 refresh) is an excellent GPU (basically a cut down 9600), which is more comparable to the GeForce Go FX5200 in the PowerBook. Other than that the speed difference (167MHz in the 12" iBook to 12" PowerBook) is minimal and definitely not one of the reasons I chose the PowerBook over the iBook.

The one other reason I liked the PowerBook was the 5400RPM hard drive as standard, as opposed to 4200RPM drives, there is actually a significant boost using a 5400rpm drive. Plus 60gb on the combo model instead of 40gb (without having to go the CTO route).

One thing that does bug me though is the iBook's 1.5GB memory ceiling as it stands now and the PB's 1.25GB memory ceiling in the 12" model; though it will be interesting to see how a 2GB SO-DIMM in such a slot fares, if one in PC3200/DDR-333 is ever made.

Apart from the PowerBook 180 I used to have a few years ago; this is my first Macintosh laptop (had plenty of desktops mind) and I couldn't be happier with it now. :flower:

Vicky
 
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mangoSharingan

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Again, if you have the money, go for the Powerbook and do NOT look back. If not, then an iBook is fine, plus you can hook it to an external monitor to do your work whenever you want.
 
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