How does Apple do cooling, SO well?! :)

As one of those overclocking, water-cooling and customizing guys, well, not really. At least never did set up a water-cooled rig, nor do any cosmetic customizations. But, was definitely into overclocking big time.

Why, you ask? Ask any long time gamer why. Speed, man, speed. My current desktop rig is 3 1/2 yrs old this month. (And my first rig ever to last longer than a year since '95, and first to last longer than 2 yrs since '82.) Have some high end very low latency RAM and a P4 3.4 GHz that I run overclocked right about 3.9 GHz. This speed increase gave me 30% reduction in video encoding times. Better frame rates (of course primarily dependant on the video card) in games. Faster boot times (not that I do that very often), faster load times, etc. Basically the same reason most people have upgraded from their old 1 GHz CPU's of several years ago.

CPU's for several years were doubling in speed about every 12 months. When the Intel and AMD both hit the wall about 4 years ago, everything slowed way down until the C2D's. And the only reason I haven't already upgraded my current desktop. My own speed tests for encoding, ripping, etc. with my O/C'd rig is still within 15-30% of the times being posted by the 2.4 C2D's speed tests. Try keeping up with today's CPU's with a Dell 2.8 GHz rig. Of course, I guess some people like to sit around wating for their computer to complete a task.

As much as I still love my MBP (8 months into it), I am definitely one of those that would have built a new rig several months ago if I could install OS X on it. As it is, I am 5 months into deciding whether I want to build another XP box or get a Mac Pro. The question is which is more important to me now. Hardware or software. Do I want the hardware I want and continue on with XP, or get the OS I want and live with the hardware that's capable of running it. This is tuff question for a long time hardware enthusiast.

And, as nice as my MBP is, what makes it what it is, is OS X. Am sure I would not be nearly as enthralled with it if I was running only XP on it. Not when the MBP is a good 30-50% slower at the real, time consuming tasks than my old desktop.

413X3 said:

I have seen a few non-intel G5s get extremely loud and some power supplies die eventually after only a year or so. But in general, macs seem to be better than PCs in terms of cooling and quietness

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I wonder if there are stats on this? Interesting area of study. Are Macs (and PCs) not lasting as long because of heat?

glosswhite said:

Half the joy of using a Mac, is using *A MAC*!!

Shame on you

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What is a Mac? A pretty PC or a PC that runs OS X? I think a "Mac" is a user-experience. For me OS X is that experience. If I can run it on a machine that suits my needs better because it's more functional, then I have a better Mac.

Zoolook said:

Do you ever post anything of any value here?

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I'm pretty sure I do.

glosswhite said:

smurfy, that was indeed, a pointless and stupid comment. No, it has nothing to do with freezers, and I am pretty sure noone has anything like this idea.

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joke
noun
a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, esp. a story with a funny punchline : she was in a mood to tell jokes.

Zoolook said:

Do you ever post anything of any value here?

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smurfy said:

I'm pretty sure I do.
*Snip*

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Just by looking at your reputation dot, I don't think you see your contribution here all that objectively, ya know?

smurfy said:

I'm pretty sure I do.

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I must have missed it... link please?

MacHeadCase said:

Just by looking at your reputation dot, I don't think you see your contribution here all that objectively, ya know?

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Oh yeah, I never noticed the colors...Coolll.

cwa107 said:

I must have missed it... link please?

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LOL, good one, +1

cwa107 said:

What is a Mac? A pretty PC or a PC that runs OS X? I think a "Mac" is a user-experience. For me OS X is that experience. If I can run it on a machine that suits my needs better because it's more functional, then I have a better Mac.

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As long as the whole "OS X but not on a Mac" thing, isn't discussed in as much depth as on other suspicious (and ILLEGAL) sites online. Mac OS for other hardware ain't coming anytime soon, if ever; ask ANYONE, so MEH...

Get a Mac - it's harmony dude. You'd not eat battered fish, without chips; you'd not get Laurel, without Hardy, nor Morecombe without Wise. Would you ski using only ONE leg??. Do it right.

smurfy said:

I'm pretty sure I do.



joke
noun
a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, esp. a story with a funny punchline : she was in a mood to tell jokes.

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You're like one of those annoying flies that fly RIGHT in your face, as much as you bat it away. Nice to see you're making useful contributions...



Your dictionary quotes are pointless. Was that a joke of some kind, or the overwhelming wave of self-righteousness?.

smurfy said:

I'm pretty sure I do.



joke
noun
a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, esp. a story with a funny punchline : she was in a mood to tell jokes.

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I see, you're the board jester.

Your 'jokes' are getting a little tiresome, as is your sarcasm.

Zoolook said:

I see, you're the board jester.

Your 'jokes' are getting a little tiresome, as is your sarcasm.

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Were jesters not meant to make people laugh?. All he does is make HIMSELF laugh. Oh well. Back on topic, anyone? ...

glosswhite said:

As long as the whole "OS X but not on a Mac" thing, isn't discussed in as much depth as on other suspicious (and ILLEGAL) sites online. Mac OS for other hardware ain't coming anytime soon, if ever; ask ANYONE, so MEH...

Get a Mac - it's harmony dude. You'd not eat battered fish, without chips; you'd not get Laurel, without Hardy, nor Morecombe without Wise. Would you ski using only ONE leg??. Do it right.

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I have a Mac and it wasn't my intention to suggest that someone try installing OS X on a non-Apple product. With that said, I would very much like to be able to legally run OS X on another manufacturer's hardware - as I'm sure many others would too.

Apple hardware is great, but it's not for everyone. In my opinion, it's the operating system that really shines. My point is that, I'd rather run it on a machine with lots of ports, legacy and USB, without having to have a dozen different dongles hanging from it - and I'm not alone.

I understand that Apple has gone down this road before and likely will not do it again, but that doesn't mean the demand is not there - and is perhaps one of the biggest driving forces for those that are illegally hacking its current incarnations.

Arguably, computer hardware is now ubiquitous and standardized on the PC platform. Years ago, nearly every manufacturer's chipsets were unique (aside from PC clones) and this bred innovation in hardware. Today that's not the case, and Apple has to be different in some way to attract new switchers. I just wish that those difference weren't purely cosmetic.

Tell me you'd rather not have a two-button trackpad - or how about 4 or more USB ports. You can't be so blinded by fanboyism that you're deluded into thinking that there is no room for improvement with Apple's design ethos.

cwa107 said:

I have a Mac and it wasn't my intention to suggest that someone try installing OS X on a non-Apple product. With that said, I would very much like to be able to legally run OS X on another manufacturer's hardware - as I'm sure many others would too.

Apple hardware is great, but it's not for everyone. In my opinion, it's the operating system that really shines. My point is that, I'd rather run it on a machine with lots of ports, legacy and USB, without having to have a dozen different dongles hanging from it - and I'm not alone.

I understand that Apple has gone down this road before and likely will not do it again, but that doesn't mean the demand is not there - and is perhaps one of the biggest driving forces for those that are illegally hacking its current incarnations.

Arguably, computer hardware is now ubiquitous and standardized on the PC platform. Years ago, nearly every manufacturer's chipsets were unique (aside from PC clones) and this bred innovation in hardware. Today that's not the case, and Apple has to be different in some way to attract new switchers. I just wish that those difference weren't purely cosmetic.

Tell me you'd rather not have a two-button trackpad - or how about 4 or more USB ports. You can't be so blinded by fanboyism that you're deluded into thinking that there is no room for improvement with Apple's design ethos.

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That is simply YOUR OPINION!. You cannot call myself, or others, "fanboys" just because we have a differing opinion to yours; that is just RUDE (and kinda ignorant of you). Sorry but you're very wrong on this issue; I'd never want OS X unless it was on a Mac; it just ain't right, and beside - I LOVE the hardware and the whole user/owner and retail experience.

Call me what you like though; that doesn't make it factual.

glosswhite said:

That is simply YOUR OPINION!.

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Which is why I said:

Apple hardware is great, but it's not for everyone. In my opinion...

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You cannot call myself, or others, "fanboys" just because we have a differing opinion to yours; that is just RUDE (and kinda ignorant of you).

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I didn't call you a "fanboy", the suffix 'ism', implies that your thoughts lean toward that mindset. It is a descriptive term, not name-calling. If you didn't come here or start this thread to have a discussion with people whose opinon might differ from yours, then I'm not sure why you're here.

Sorry but you're very wrong on this issue; I'd never want OS X unless it was on a Mac; it just ain't right, and beside - I LOVE the hardware and the whole user/owner and retail experience.

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...and that would be your opinion. It doesn't make either of us "wrong", it's just the way we feel about computers. There's no reason to get defensive. We're not talking about religion or politics here.

Call me what you like though; that doesn't make it factual.

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I didn't call you anything - and we're not talking about facts, we're discussing opinions as you pointed out.

I'm not sure I'd favour OS X being available for any hardware. It'd end up like Windows. One of the main reasons OS X is a little more stable and secure than Windows is partly down to Apple having complete control over hardware AND software. Lets face it, when you buy a new Dell or whatever, you never know what rubbish is going to be installed on it. Half the time, the problems are caused by Malware installed at the factory.

When I was a PC user, I built my own PCs and installed Windows myself, cleanly and properly. I can say hand on heart, in 4 years of using XP on my home built rigs, I never once had a BSOD experience. My point? XP is not a bad OS, it's just too open to abuse by PC manufacturers and of course hackers.

Macs are Macs, because they are Macs... not because OS X is perfect. If OS X was installed on Dells, along with trial versions of AOL and Roadrunner software, they'd be as bad a PCs... IMO...

Zoolook said:

I'm not sure I'd favour OS X being available for any hardware. It'd end up like Windows. One of the main reasons OS X is a little more stable and secure than Windows is partly down to Apple having complete control over hardware AND software. Lets face it, when you buy a new Dell or whatever, you never know what rubbish is going to be installed on it. Half the time, the problems are caused by Malware installed at the factory.

When I was a PC user, I built my own PCs and installed Windows myself, cleanly and properly. I can say hand on heart, in 4 years of using XP on my home built rigs, I never once had a BSOD experience. My point? XP is not a bad OS, it's just too open to abuse by PC manufacturers and of course hackers.

Macs are Macs, because they are Macs... not because OS X is perfect. If OS X was installed on Dells, along with trial versions of AOL and Roadrunner software, they'd be as bad a PCs... IMO...

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Point taken, and I agree that Apple having complete control from end to end is an asset. I'd just wish their products fell more inline with what I like in terms of hardware.

Zoolook, you make some good points. Hate seeing any system show up at the door with a bunch of cr** on it. BSOD, havn't seen one of those myself since Win '98. Even through 98ME which most people hated, but I had a home built system with ME that ran great and never had any issues. But, for me, have to agree with cwa on this one. There is a multitude of great hardware available for building your own systems out there. I enjoy doing the research and picking the best equipment vs dollars for my own uses.

I understand Apple's business model also. When you compare the prices of software in the windows world with OS X at $129, iLife at $79, iWork at $79, and family packs with 5 licenses for next to nothing in addition, Apple really is producing some great software for the money comparatively. I really don't think Apple is making it's fortune on software. Rather they have developed some excellent software that brings the buyers to their hardware.

If it were not for the fact of OS X, Apple would be hard pressed, even as nice looking as their computers are, to sell the number of units they do without going the route of a Dell (by offering a full range of hardware options - bet you could build a Dell in $20 increments and maybe $10 from $600 all the way to $5000) or HP (and offering primarily the low end of the heap for those that only look at bottom line price and don't have a clue, or only a small clue as to what's inside).

For 12 years I have enjoyed picking every individual piece of hardware that has gone into my rigs. Of course for Apple to open the OS to the DIY's would open it up to the big system builders also. This probably would not be good for Apple. It would very much affect their business model and take them into the realm of a software company vs a hardware company.

But we can dream. And now with Mac's I am in a new realm of computers. Instead of going out and getting the "best" hardware I can find, I have to go out and find the "best that works with OS X". This is a small part of why I never stayed with Linux for long. I always had a piece of hardware that would be another year or two before there was any driver support.

And sure there are many people (most in fact) that just want to walk into a store, have a reasonable buying experience and get home with a machine that just works. My wife is one of those. She's been using computers now for 12-15 years. She doesn't have a clue of the difference between a processor of today and the 100MHz that was AMD's King of the Hill many years ago. Ask her what does each of these stand for on a new system, 2.4 - 2 - 128 - 250. Without multiple choice, she couldn't name one of them. And there are a lot of these users out there.

Some of us however, would like a little more.

cut:.... Ok schweb

Guys, this thread is very close to being locked. Respect and good conversation is the rule here. Keep the personal insults and flaming outside of Mac-Forums.

Sorry if anything I have said, has been misinterpreted, as arguing. I am here to learn and to hopefully teach, not to get into a rant or flame war. If anyone is here mainly to argue for the sake of arguing, then this is pretty silly.

I shall politely step back, until this thread has settled a little; I have made my comment.

[[ PS ]]

Linux is all well and good, but the inconsistency annoys me. Just my final thought.