Played with new 15" MBP today - First Impressions

I stopped by the Apple store today and got to play with the new MacBook Pros. They had one side-by-side with a new high-def 17" model. The colors definitely popped out more on the 15", but that's always been the case when compared to the 17" model (the 17" always looks darker). My first two positive impressions were:

1) The black levels are amazing. Best I've ever seen on any LCD screen anywhere, period. The 15" I was playing with had an iPhone ad window on the screen...the background was a lighter shade of black while the graphics on the iPhone were pitch black, the difference was astounding! Very impressive, wish they sold TVs with that kind of contrast!

2) It was much cooler than previous MacBook Pros. I played with a 2.4ghz model with 2gb ram. The only place I felt heat on the top was on the left speaker next to the keyboard. Underneath it was much hotter, but more than bearable. Before I couldn't even keep my hand underneath one for more than a few seconds; I didn't have any issues holding this one. It was even cooler than my old 13" MacBook!


The first two negative impressions I had were:

1) The screen still won't fold back all the way. This is my biggest complaint. The display tables at the Apple Store only came up to about my hip; I couldn't see the screen very well because it wasn't facing me directly. I'm about 6' 1" and I had to tilt the entire laptop back or else squat down to look directly at the screen. I find that super-annoying. This video pretty much sums it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pQQWB3uZIs

2) The lack of USB ports. 2 USB ports on a $2500 laptop is borderline criminal. Even my budget Gateway laptop has 4 USB ports. However, this issue is easier to overcome than the screen hinge problem; a $20 USB hub can solve the problem in a non-elegant way.

So there you have it. My first impressions on the new LED MacBook Pro. Given the new, cooler Santa Rosa processors and the 4gb ram cap - and despite the downsides - I am planning on getting one this summer. Bye bye PCs

Thanks for that!

i dont agree with either of your #2's

my C2D mbp is fine on heat, something im sure that the new ones follow.
as for the usb thing. i dont want 1-2more ports on the pro, it would look to crowded. i b ought a 15$ hub a while back, and havent needed much since.

I'm waiting for my MBP to ship, and I have heard of the hinge complaint in the past. What percent of the time does a normal person use the laptop in a weird way like the guy in the video? It looks like his tip toes are on the floor, and his sofa is very low profile.

Do MBP have hinge breakage issues? Maybe this design prevents common hinge issues that other laptops have?

techmonkey said:

I'm waiting for my MBP to ship, and I have heard of the hinge complaint in the past. What percent of the time does a normal person use the laptop in a weird way like the guy in the video? It looks like his tip toes are on the floor, and his sofa is very low profile.

Do MBP have hinge breakage issues? Maybe this design prevents common hinge issues that other laptops have?

Click to expand...

I use it that way all the time. Half the reason for getting a laptop is so I can veg on my couch, chill in a big chair at the library, or hang out at a friend's place instead of being tied to my desktop at home.

I personally don't find the USB's an issue, just get a cheap hub and it's sorted. And the fact that they have a firewire 800 and 400 port makes them future proof as them ports are becoming alot more popular than they used too.

kgeier82 said:

i dont agree with either of your #2's

my C2D mbp is fine on heat, something im sure that the new ones follow.
as for the usb thing. i dont want 1-2more ports on the pro, it would look to crowded. i b ought a 15$ hub a while back, and havent needed much since.

Click to expand...

The C2D models do seem somewhat cooler than the CD models, but the new SR models are way way cooler than either one. I have extensive experience with both the CD and C2D models as well as the 13" models. The new ones are by far the coolest I've ever used. The first time I played with the CD 15" models, every one on the showroom floor could have had an egg cooked on it.

I guess extra USB ports is a personal thing. I prefer to use an external mouse rather than the trackpad on laptops and I typically have an assortment of USB devices in my bag (tablet, memory stick, external hard drive, iPod, etc.). It kind of feels like I'm getting short-changed for the price I'm paying for a MBP.

Justin_P said:

I personally don't find the USB's an issue, just get a cheap hub and it's sorted. And the fact that they have a firewire 800 and 400 port makes them future proof as them ports are becoming alot more popular than they used too.

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Yeah it really depends on what you do with your machine. The Firewire 800 feature is nice, as is the ExpressCard. The ExpressCard is another minor quibble of mine - they use the 34 cardslot isntead of the 54 cardslot...I haven't been able to find a dual SD/CF reader for the 34 size yet. So I have to carry around a USB memory card reader, yet another USB port taken. Then if I want to plug in more stuff, I have to take out a USB hub. It ends up looking like a mess! It's not anything that's not overcomeable, but it is an annoyance and kind of defeats the Mac "simplicity" idea, you know?

kaidomac said:

The C2D models do seem somewhat cooler than the CD models, but the new SR models are way way cooler than either one. I have extensive experience with both the CD and C2D models as well as the 13" models. The new ones are by far the coolest I've ever used. The first time I played with the CD 15" models, every one on the showroom floor could have had an egg cooked on it.

I guess extra USB ports is a personal thing. I prefer to use an external mouse rather than the trackpad on laptops and I typically have an assortment of USB devices in my bag (tablet, memory stick, external hard drive, iPod, etc.). It kind of feels like I'm getting short-changed for the price I'm paying for a MBP.

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SR way way cooler? maybe slightly, no way "way way cooler"

my mbp has always been cooler than my MB, so i dont consider it hot in the first place.

kgeier82 said:

SR way way cooler? maybe slightly, no way "way way cooler"

my mbp has always been cooler than my MB, so i dont consider it hot in the first place.

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Like I said, it was only a first impression. I'll have to wait until I get my hands on one to do further investigation. But yes, "way way" cooler. I was amazed, actually. Can't wait to get some extensive hands-on testing done Also aren't the Santa Rosa chips 45nm now?

That reminds me, I need to pick up a USB hub, I have a printer and a mouse that take up both ports right now, and when I need to plug in my flashdrive, I always need to unplug the printer.

If you only need an additional USB port, you can get one of these.

http://www.tracyandmatt.co.uk/blogs/index.php/2006/09/15/htc_mini_usb_splitter

Personally, I hardly ever have anything plugged into my USB ports. Most of the time I only use them for my flash drive or mouse. Printer is setup wireless.

kaidomac said:

Like I said, it was only a first impression. I'll have to wait until I get my hands on one to do further investigation. But yes, "way way" cooler. I was amazed, actually. Can't wait to get some extensive hands-on testing done Also aren't the Santa Rosa chips 45nm now?

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it might be my mistake, but isnt SantaRosa JUST a chipset?

i dont think they are 45nm yet, look for that early JAN i think

just what i thought....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino#Santa_Rosa_platform_.282007.29
last line of the Satna Section says late 07 for 45nm

the macs cant be "Santa Rosa" because they dont carry the intel Wifi correct? they do however have the cpu implementation, chipset, and memory speeds

kgeier82 said:

it might be my mistake, but isnt SantaRosa JUST a chipset?

i dont think they are 45nm yet, look for that early JAN i think

just what i thought....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino#Santa_Rosa_platform_.282007.29
last line of the Satna Section says late 07 for 45nm

the macs cant be "Santa Rosa" because they dont carry the intel Wifi correct? they do however have the cpu implementation, chipset, and memory speeds

Click to expand...

Santa Rosa is also a processor. Yonah, Merom, Santa Rosa. I'm not sure if they are 45nm or not. I know the next model, the Penryn, is definitely going to be 45nm. Can you imagine Quad Core laptop processors?

thanks for the review, ill have get along and have a loom at the new ones. im considering an upgrade from my CD MBP

the range of angle on the hinge has never been a problem for me and i spend quite a bit of time on the couch with my MBP.

same goes for the USB ports, if im using anything with USB im at my desk in which case using a hub isnt an issue.

kaidomac said:

Santa Rosa is also a processor. Yonah, Merom, Santa Rosa. I'm not sure if they are 45nm or not. I know the next model, the Penryn, is definitely going to be 45nm. Can you imagine Quad Core laptop processors?

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i dont think it is.

and from what i posted, they ARE NOT 45nm, yet

45nm debuts with Intel's Penryn chips which will appear in server and desktop configurations in Q4 according to current schedules. There is a possibility that they will pull it in if AMD ever comes out with Barcelona.

I think that mobile chips based on Penryn will come out in 2008. I imagine Penryn will be a killer chip at 45 nm and better headroom compared to Core 2 Duo.

Penryn also adds the Super Shuffle SIMD instruction in addition to other new SIMD instructions. Altivec (PowerPC SIMD instruction set) had an instruction that allowed you to shuffle around the bytes in a vector register that was really convenient and this instruction was probably missed by many porters that used Altivec when Apple went the the x86 architecture. To replicate the Altivec instruction on x86 could take half a page of code. So there will most likely be IPC, frequency and power consumption improvements with Penryn.

I'm mainly a Windows user (x64 and Win32) at home, Windows and Linux at work, with a PowerMac G5 at home that I used to do a little development on but stopped when Apple went to x86. My current laptop is 3 years old and runs Windows x64 - and it's mostly used by my son for homework. I'm not particularly interested in Vista and was looking for a machine that can run Windows with decent performance that's a little lighter than my current machine which is near 8 pounds with about 105 minutes of battery life. That can be used for development and also a gaming machine (for the kids when we travel). I would like to wait for Penryn but our son is going to college full-time in the fall and either he needs something new or I do. I might get something for him now and then get another one next year.

The thing that's incredibly annoying is that you pay $500 for the 15 inch upgrade which gives you 128 MB video ram, a bigger hard disk and 200 Mhz of clock speed. In general, C2D chips have a ton of overclocking potential so bumping 2.2 to 2.4 should be easy. If Apple allows this.

I think that games typically require at least 256 MB of video ram so that might force me to the middle model. I think that the kids would love the laptop but would expect 256 MB VRAM.

Any suggestions on the model to choose above?

I think that my wife would like one of these too.

kgeier82 said:

i dont think it is.

and from what i posted, they ARE NOT 45nm, yet

Click to expand...

Santa Rosa is more of a nickname for the platform (including the processor) than anything. The official title is "Centrino Pro" but on forums people usually refer to the chips by their codenames (Yonah, Merom, Santa Rosa, Penryn, etc.) rather than their actual names. The current chip is referred to as a "Santa Rosa processor":

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=578

http://www.trustedreviews.com/notebooks/review/2007/04/17/Intel-Santa-Rosa-Revealed/p2

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/20/intels-santa-rosa-platform-officially-dubbed-centrino-pro/

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/notag/wh...tels-new-santa-rosa-platform-258885.php<br />

Also you said "my mbp has always been cooler than my MB, so i dont consider it hot in the first place." Which model 13" do you have? The previous CD and C2D 15" MBPs that I used were much hotter than the 13", it sounds like you really lucked out with a cooler-running 15" model. I could cook breakfast on the majority of 15" MBPs I've worked on

Great info Kaidomac!!! Thank you!

mmoy said:

45nm debuts with Intel's Penryn chips which will appear in server and desktop configurations in Q4 according to current schedules. There is a possibility that they will pull it in if AMD ever comes out with Barcelona.

I think that mobile chips based on Penryn will come out in 2008. I imagine Penryn will be a killer chip at 45 nm and better headroom compared to Core 2 Duo.

Penryn also adds the Super Shuffle SIMD instruction in addition to other new SIMD instructions. Altivec (PowerPC SIMD instruction set) had an instruction that allowed you to shuffle around the bytes in a vector register that was really convenient and this instruction was probably missed by many porters that used Altivec when Apple went the the x86 architecture. To replicate the Altivec instruction on x86 could take half a page of code. So there will most likely be IPC, frequency and power consumption improvements with Penryn.

I'm mainly a Windows user (x64 and Win32) at home, Windows and Linux at work, with a PowerMac G5 at home that I used to do a little development on but stopped when Apple went to x86. My current laptop is 3 years old and runs Windows x64 - and it's mostly used by my son for homework. I'm not particularly interested in Vista and was looking for a machine that can run Windows with decent performance that's a little lighter than my current machine which is near 8 pounds with about 105 minutes of battery life. That can be used for development and also a gaming machine (for the kids when we travel). I would like to wait for Penryn but our son is going to college full-time in the fall and either he needs something new or I do. I might get something for him now and then get another one next year.

The thing that's incredibly annoying is that you pay $500 for the 15 inch upgrade which gives you 128 MB video ram, a bigger hard disk and 200 Mhz of clock speed. In general, C2D chips have a ton of overclocking potential so bumping 2.2 to 2.4 should be easy. If Apple allows this.

I think that games typically require at least 256 MB of video ram so that might force me to the middle model. I think that the kids would love the laptop but would expect 256 MB VRAM.

Any suggestions on the model to choose above?

I think that my wife would like one of these too.

Click to expand...

I've actually been debating this myself. For losing 128mb video ram and 2 x 200mhz of speed, you can practically buy yourself a Mac Mini with the money you save. That's ridiculous, but it's the price you pay to be on the cutting edge. As far as the 128mb vs 256mb ram issue, there's practically no difference gaming-wise. Check out this article for a comparison:

http://www.barefeats.com/rosa03.html

So your $500 gets you an extra 2 frames per second while playing video games. That's nothing to write home about! An extra 200mhz of speed won't really be noticed because even though it's 2x200mhz, it's not really adding to your overall top-end speed, just to multiprocessing. I was all set to pick up the 2.4ghz model until I realized that the price difference was $500. So let's take a look at what your leftover $500 can get you if you grab the 2.2ghz model. First of all, MCE Tech sells a 4gb upgrade for $200 here: (2 x 2gb sticks @ $99 each)

http://store.mcetech.com/Merchant2/...PC5300&Category_Code=MEMMBPRO&Product_Count=0

Apple sells a 7200rpm 160gb upgrade for $225 on the 2.2ghz model. So with 4gb ram and the super-fast hard drive upgrade, you're only at $425. You still have $75 leftover from the price of the 2.4ghz to buy a nice bag, wireless mouse, etc. Or you can pay the extra $500, get 2 FPS more in your games, and not have any goodies to trick out your MBP with