I am so disqusted at this point...

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starrin

Guest
Okay -- Since getting my Powerbook back yesterday evening I spent 2 hours on it upgrading software -- due to Apple not putting the latest software on the unit when they shipped it back. Got home from yesterday evening and used it for email and general websurfing for about an hour.

Turned it off so I could see my daughter off to bed. Came back down my stairs turned the unit on and BLAM! it is happening all over AGAIN!!!!!!!

The flashing icon comes back up instead of booting like it should -- I will note that it comes up immediately as before it would come up after about 2 minutes.

So - since I have the Apple Support phone number memorized -- I immediately call them and explain what is happening. So then the first guy switches me to another. He tries to run me through all the same old
stuff that does nothing for this problem (ie boot off the disk and bring up disk utility -- well if the unit does not recognize the hard drive this doesn't matter).

So as he has me walking through some boots and key holding -- he is whistling and having a jolly ol' time. Can you believe this! I did not pay 3000
dollars for a notebook to have all these problems and then when I need help I get some schmuck whistling in between his instructions!!!

I am sooooo fuming mad (as is my wife - not a happy household) - when I asked for the Apple tech support guys name - he would only give his first name - I felt like saying THANKS FOR THE AWARD WINNING SUPPORT!!!!

So they are sending out ANOTHER box to ship back to them -- all within 24 hours of receiving the unit back from them "fixed".

I know many of the people here love Apple -- as I thought being a Software Architect who is also working on his PhD. in Computer Science would find a long term partnership with Apple.

But seriously -- I have bought hardware and electronics at a fraction of the cost of this unit and received support that I know deserves the name "Award
Winning". I cannot remember the last time I bought a piece of computer hardware and had been so excited -- I cannot stress the sheer amount of disappointment I have with Apple's product, customer relations, and support thereof.

I am writing all this down in a forum such as this not to offend anyone but to create a record of this customer's unsatisfactory experience.

Unfortunately at this point I do have recourse into obtaining my money back on the purchase. Unless Apple makes SERIOUS consessions my way -- and the START would be replacing the unit -- and doing much much much more --like compensating me in some fashion for the amount B.S. I dealt with on the phone --- I will be taking my money and going back to IBM and Microsoft. I feel so bad in saying that but how could I possibly feel good about putting an important presentation on my notebook only to not have it boot
when it is time to present - gee this will go over real well for my dissertation.

I hope everyone receives this post with their powerbooks working flawlessly.

One more note -- I was shocked to find that they did not offer any explanation as to their original fix. They should sent it back saying they replaced the hard drive -- when I called them to find out if they may have done anything else -- the girl on the end essentially said -- "it just says here in the computer that they replaced the hard drive and uhhhhh I guess it was just bad". --- I would not expect an answer as unconcise as this.

Jason
 
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I'm really out of words Jason......I think if I was in your position as a new switcher I would probably be saying the same exact things. I've been a switcher for close to a year now with only 1 incident with AppleSupport which turned out great but your situation is unexusable.

1-800-767-2775 is Apple's Customer Relations phone number. I would give them a call and don't hang up until they give you what you are asking for because they have really done a crap job so far with you
 
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Sorry to hear of such problems. I hope they are resolved fast!
 
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WilliS

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hey bud... from the looks of it, im guessing its more problems than your hard drive... i understand your frustration, ive had some issues with my powermac in the past... one thing that i feel apple needs to work on is their hardware... i buy apple for a good OS, and pay good money for a working machine, i expect the hardware to perform as nicely as the OS does...

i know this has been causing you some grey hairs and such, but as you know from working with PC's, some things arent always what they seem. (ie. computer wont boot, just gives a beep, beep, beep... could mean your ram isnt seated right, could mean your video card isnt seated right, could mean the video card has gone bad..a number of things)... so as you should know, a little picture of a folder with a question mark isnt always just a bad hard drive.

hopefully this time they just give you a whole new logic board to go along with your new hard drive, and you will be on your way to brighter days lol
 
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starrin

Guest
Hi,

Well, since the flashing icon comes up much faster than it used to -- I thought I would check and see if the problem is still intermittent. So, I get home from work and hit the power button -- and it has magically cured itself outside of a pop-up explaining that the date on the unit has is prior to 1992 or something to that affect.

So I call Apple Support to tell them that it is still intermittent -- they guy was sort of short with me -- saying things like:

"Is that all you called for?"

So then I asked him what constitutes a unit being deemed unrepairable?

"I am not going to get into that discussion?"

I asked if this was policy or a personal choice?

"You could say both - but I do not determine or make that decision"

Can you please transfer me to someone who can answer all of my questions?

"Please hold"

I get a much nicer individual after waiting over 15 minutes -- I assume they were discussing my questions and a game plan (maybe I am reading into to that too much)

This individual -- upon speaking with him -- said that no where in your case notes does it say it is intermittent. I felt like screaming -- so what about me calling on average once every 3 days makes it not intermittent? So he says I am going to put this in your notes and send out a second box for pick-up -- and that to NOT put it in the first but the second and gave me the dispatch number. Based on this -- they want to replace the logic board and a wire harness and that they have all these special tools at their disposal to figure out the problem. I quickly reminded him that this is the second trip to these great tools in one week! He was much more of a professional when talking about a replacement -- did not come out and start saying NO right off the bat like ALL the others. Did not ask me to buy Apple Protection Care. Essentially they will take another crack at fixing the unit -- if the problem persist then they will take a look at that option.

I then moved into the topic of compensation of the fact I have had a powerbook for 3 months and not been able to really use it due to reliability. He dodged the question and spun into how we need to focus on getting this fixed first. But hey -- fixed or not -- I will be coming after them day in and day out until I get some level of compensation. Based on some actions that they will be presented with over the next couple of days -- I have a feeling that I will start to see the service we SHOULD ALL get in our time of hardware issues. I will allow everyone here to know my outcome because I do believe everything I am going through will be of significant value once the ordeal come to a conclusion -- refund, new unit, unit fixed -- whatever this may be.

I am still working on the letter (more like a report of my experience) I am drafting and fortunately have contacted some friends in the industry and have obtained several emails to Apple's executive management. The one good thing is that I feel in a sense it was meant that I had these problems -- as I feel I can actually do something about it from the inside. Yes they will receive an outline of my experience along with detailed suggestions on how to address customers in the future who require technical assistance.

I do want to clarify something -- Please do not read into the above like I am being arrogant and I KNOW people:) I am only outlining how I am bringing closure and hopefully resolution to my ordeal and issues.

On a side note -- I have to admit - as many PCs I have personally built from just purchasing parts --- I never had a problem - not once. I do consider myself lucky. But our family PC and my PC-turned-hometheater-video-scaler keep chugging right along.

As always thanks for the advice and support - I now understand the community concept of mac:)
 
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Good luck with everything Jason...It looks like you are handling everything in a professional manner with the service techs and you are definitely getting your point across with them. I have a feeling with this servicing they will be extra careful to make things right because they realize you are on the edge
 
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lar5one

Guest
I know my following comment will not help too much, but I must say: Geez!
Best of luck there, man. This whole thing is pretty ridiculous...
 
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Wow....I sure hope my switching experience is nothing like that!!!!

I'm a bit frightened now...
 
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starrin

Guest
Okay! So after many phone calls and giving Apple a multitude of information I have received my unit back.

So after calling Apple on a daily basis to get an update (their site is pretty much worthless in my opinion) - they gave me a phone number to a guy in their Houston repair facility. This gentleman was a very nice and professional individual. So a couple of days ago -- in speaking with this gentleman he voiced how they could not reproduce the problem. But the product specialist wrote out a bill to them to replace the following:

Hard Drive
Logic Board
Flex Cable (connects HD to Board)

So I told him that unless they can reproduce the problem and are 100% sure what needs to happen to fix it for good -- I WANT A NEW UNIT! He was nice about it and said he will speak to some people about this for me. So the next day the guy calls me and says -- 'Hey -- the reproduced the problem'

Now wait -- I was not born yesterday -- So I am very suspicous of this after our previous call. He went on to say there is a problem with my logic board -- however since they have the authorization to replace the other parts they will do this as well. So I am good with this -- hey as long as it works.

They do this and send it back to me -- so far everything is working A-OKAY. I truly hope this is the end of this post.

I also -- said -- "To **** with it -- I will buy the dreaded Apple Care!" So yesterday I went to the store down the street from where I live and purchased the plan.

Now -- what I am going to do is the following:

1) Send an email to the professional who helped me over the last couple of days and CC his boss. Voicing my appreciation for his courtesy in the matter.

2) Send a written bunch of letters - to a series of Apple Executives. As I want some form of compensation for my hugely negative experiences.

Overall I am hoping this chapter is done and I can get down to enjoying my PowerBook.

For anyone having problems -- I would just say -- seek out the people on the Apple Support Service who are willing to help you and are professional. If you reach someone who is not satisfying your demands -- don't yell -- just hang-up (let them think you were disconnected) -- call back and try the next person you get.

Think Good Thoughts:)

Jason
 
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Glad to hear things are going good so far Jason.....With a replaced Logic Board, Hard drive and connector cables I can think of no ways for their to be any problems that you were having previously.....Good luck with your letters of your poor experiences and hope you enjoy your PowerBook.
 
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nesuser2

Guest
I understand your frustrations with apple's support. It's not that it's bad, but when something is obviously wrong....they treat you like a stray dog. When I ordered my refurb 30gb ipod, it wouldn't work...straight out of the box. It worked flawless but wouldn't sync at all. I made over 15 phone calls to apple in roughly 2 days and the last person I talked to was casually brushing my problem off like I expected and then he asked how long I had owned it. So, I told him that I placed the order Thursday morning and received everything Friday morning and this was Sunday morning. This is after they are sending me the box to ship it back for repairs. So then, they quickly get everything moving along and replace it. Only to find out it's a firewire cable.... :rolleyes:

EDIT: Lesson here....if you get the wrong answer from one jerk answering the phone....call back and hope you get somebody else. If you don't get somebody else...hang up and call back...and call back. Somebody will tend to you like you should be.
 
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ZenithApricot

Guest
Same Problem

starrin said:
Okay -- so I thought I would do the honorable thing and buy my first mac as I am a software developer and I appreciate their move to OS X.

However after two calls to Apple Support a trip to the Apple Store all I get is a so called "genius" stating that it appears to work and there is nothing I can do -- because I cannot reproduce the problem.

What is the problem?

Well -- It started a couple weeks ago when I brought my powerbook out of sleep and it was frozen. So I re-booted to get a little mac icon -- i looked it up on my trustworthy Dell and it said essentially that it could not locate the OS. Well this was true because it could not see the hard drive in the disk utility when I tried that -- HECK - if I wanted to re-install the OS -- I couldn't!

So Apple Support on the phone walks me through the typical boot from ROM and try some utility -- but it yielded no error results. So we leave it at -- letting it run through a loop test over night and take it to the Apple Store in the morning. In the night the power cord much have loosened and it died in the testing -- but when I plug it back in and restart -- it all boots up just fine.

I still take it to Apple and the guy gives me some long story about how I need to spend several hundred dollars on Apple Care Protection -- NO! I want my laptop to work as ADVERTISED -- I felt like screaming -- hey 3k on a laptop is a ton of money and it should work in a flawless fashion.

So here I am -- a few weeks later now past 90 days and it happened last night coming out of sleep -- I let it sit for a while and it booted fine an hour later -- then I go to check my email one last time - boot it (not from sleep) and I get the problem icon. Currently it will not boot this morning -- I was up unitl 2 AM trying to get it to work as I have a family to feed and I need a computer to do work.

Look -- I know you guys love macs -- I like them as well -- but mine sucks. I have built dozens of PCs in my day and RARELY have had problem that I could not fix in a matter of minutes -- this thing is having significant problems -- no one can help -- Apple Support is not 24 hours -- the "Genius" people cannot do anything unless they see it.


What can I do at this point -- I would love to get my money back and get a ThinkPad. I am a thirty-something engineer with a MS in Computer Science -- I know what I am doing with computers -- this one is just a lemon and I feel hung out to dry. Not to mention my wife looks at me and cannot believe that I made such a bad purchase.

Oh Yeah -- did I mention the air conditioning in my house is 4.5 years old and needs to be replaced -- SO I am having a TERRIBLE week -- luckily it is under warranty and they will be doing it question-free today. Wish Apple would just do the same. Has anyone taken Apple to court over warranty issues -- I am not about to let this just slide.


So WAIT -- I just got done typing this and tried to boot up my powerbook -- and it magically healed itself AGAIN! So when I take it to the store -- they will not be able to reproduce the problem and so goes my Apple experience over and over.

I have the same EXACT problem. I don't know what to do.
 
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S

starrin

Guest
ZenithApricot said:
I have the same EXACT problem. I don't know what to do.

Okay -- I just read all your other posts -- and your problem seems to be exactly my problem. After repeated attempts - Apple ended up replacing the following:

logic board
hard drive
flex cable (hd to logic board connection)

a couple of questions:

how old is your unit?

i hate to ask it - but do you have the iCare plan?

are you hearing any funny sounds when it happens - specifically out of the hard drive?

how long until the flashing icon appears on the screen on bootup -- in other words do you have a grey screen for over a minute until it happens?

have you started a support case with Apple support?


let me know -- as I believe I can help you out here

Jason
 
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ectheatreaubs

Guest
Hey, I just posted on here about my PowerBook HD failing too. I have only had it just over a year and have lost everything. Apple's response was that they would fix it b/c i purchased the almost $300 applecare extended warranty (luckily). But they basically said it was just something that happened b/c it's bound to have errors, and that it was my fault for not backing it all up. Keep in mind that I'm a college student that doesn't have a job yet and is dropping thousands into an education and another 3 grand in a computer. I have talked to 2 product specialists, a customer relations rep, as well as tech support several times.

I am not satisfied with how I've been treated, because I, too, feel that I should be somehow compensated for the fact that their product failed and I've been the victim of their laziness and legality issues. Their responsibility first and foremost is to their customers, not their lawyers. I am planning to file a complaint with the Attorney General which will warrant an investigation into wrong-doing and injustice by the company. Hopefully, even though I'm not a big name customer that invests millions in to their company each year, that I will make a difference. I'd like to stay in contact, so email me at [email protected]

Thanks, good luck!




starrin said:
Thank you all for the advice and experience. I do consider myself lucky by way of electronics as I have never had to send back an electronics purchase - not one that I can think of -- and you should see my dedicated Home Theater:)

However - as I type this, I have a air conditioner being replaced that is only 4.5 years old -- the whole unit! Luckily it has a 5 year warranty.

I am just a bit disappointed right now due to the level of excitement I had when I made the purchase. Not to mention that Powerbooks just are not cheap. I just would like to see Apple throw me a bone if it is in fact a hardware failure. I do realize that these things do happen -- but there is an amount of inconvenience they cause -- many other manufacturers recognize this and appropriately deal with it.

Extend my warranty
new unit
free software

Anything that makes me feel like Apple really wants the small percentage of clients that deal with these problems -- to feel appreciated for being patient.

I bought my wife a Lexus -- at the top of the list is that they were #1 in Customer satisfaction throughout a 7 year lifecycle of the car by all major publications.

When you go into an Apple Store you get/sense/spoken to/told that you receive top-notch -- or in the case of Dell -- "Award Winning" service.

When I think about it - I walked into the store -- dropped over 3k -- less than 3 months and my hd looks to be toast. Should I not get some sort of bone thrown my way. Or do I just say -- "Yup -- looks like my luck is just really bad with Apple - I best just deal with it" -- I know none of you are saying this but after 4 telephone conversations with Apple Support - 1 trip to the Store -- I just feel there is a lot of shoulder shrugging going on.

I will most definitely let them take it into their hands and analyze the issue(s). The last thing I want to hear is that they reformatted the disk and all looks good -- this tells me they didn't know what the problem was -- so how do they know they fixed it? Based on the amount of information that is given to me once fixed -- I would like to see them extend my warranty a bit longer -- just to make me feel better. If these notebooks are relatively trouble free than why not give me 6 months more -- just to make sure it is working properly? I will take this up with Customer Relations - I will also keep everyone posted as to the outcome of this -- as it may help someone in the future.

Thanks again,

Jason
 
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I

IcerC

Guest
I had a problem with the first mac I bought as well. I bought a 2nd GEn I mac, beutiful computer. The screen saver was on and when I refreshed it the screen was has transpartent grey half normal. After hours and hours and hours of phone chit chat and my refusal to drave all the way to the nearest mac servicer they let me return it for a refund. (I was in the 90 days)

___thats not all.. I recently bought another iMacG5 (3rd gen) (trying to forget the first horrorfying experiance)

When I got back I had a problem with the wireless(pain and calls) oh yeah (sent new card) I was at outward bound for a month. I returned to late to return old card and the new one did nothing.

I loved apple before I bought one.

..Sorry to hear you problems, stay sane.
 
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ectheatreaubs said:
Hey, I just posted on here about my PowerBook HD failing too. I have only had it just over a year and have lost everything. Apple's response was that they would fix it b/c i purchased the almost $300 applecare extended warranty (luckily). But they basically said it was just something that happened b/c it's bound to have errors, and that it was my fault for not backing it all up. Keep in mind that I'm a college student that doesn't have a job yet and is dropping thousands into an education and another 3 grand in a computer. I have talked to 2 product specialists, a customer relations rep, as well as tech support several times.

I am not satisfied with how I've been treated, because I, too, feel that I should be somehow compensated for the fact that their product failed and I've been the victim of their laziness and legality issues. Their responsibility first and foremost is to their customers, not their lawyers. I am planning to file a complaint with the Attorney General which will warrant an investigation into wrong-doing and injustice by the company. Hopefully, even though I'm not a big name customer that invests millions in to their company each year, that I will make a difference. I'd like to stay in contact, so email me at [email protected]

Thanks, good luck!

Apple does not make the hard disks it uses. It buys them from other companies, just like Dell or HP or anyone.

And any of these companies will tell you exactly the same thing after the warranty runs out.

If you buy an HP or Dell or Sony PC, and the hard drive dies on the 366TH day of ownership, unless you've bought an extended warranty, you're up a creek. There is nothing special about Apple's policies on this.

You have every right to be upset and frustrated, but hard drive failures are an unfortunate fact of life. Every hard drive will fail sooner or later. Some fail after a month, some after a decade.
 
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lil

Guest
To add to technologist's excellent response; it is your responsibility to back up - whatever your computer is, if you don't your playing russian roulette with your precious files. Hard disks are mechanical and can fail at any time.

Apple isn't perfect I shall grant you that, but all I do is each week, a back up my data files on to a CD-R disc (using multisessions so I don't have to use a new disc every time, until the CD-R fills up).

I got 50 80min CD-Rs for something silly like £10, and it means that all my iTunes, documents, pictures, everything except my applications (no need to, those can be easily reinstalled again from their CDs) are backed up regularly.

I'm not saying this to rub it it, I'm saying this to inform you that actually, backing up doesn't have to mean a large outlay. In fact after you have done it the first time, it probably doesn't take me more than 10 mins to back up new files, burn them, write the backup date on a slip of paper, pop it in a jewel case safely and I'm done for the next 3/4 days.

The problem with hard disks is their inherently amazing mechanics (something overlooked), spinning at 90 times a second (on later PowerBooks they are all 5400RPM) and then taking all the bumps and knocks from being in a portable system. Apple seems to use Hitachi GST mechanisms (Travelstar ones which they purchased off of IBM's disk division) which you will find the very same drives in use on the ThinkPad series.

I had a similar issue myself even to this, keeping Classic well away from it has ensured that it has run faultlessly.

I do hope you all get some resolutions to your problems, but in summary, it doesn't have to be expensive to back up; it's a life-saver, just requires a little time to do it at least each week (depending on how much you work on).

Vicky :Flower:
 
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I you purchased the product less than a year ago then you are entitled to the full Applecare warranty. You have from the date of original purchase of the machine to purchase the Applecare Warranty to extend the warranty to 3 years. During the 1st year of ownership, as long as you don't do anything to the machine to void your warranty (open up Apple-only tech areas) then they will fix or replace the unit as need be.

I have a 17" G4 iMac that I purchased the Applecare warranty on since day 1 and have never had a need to use it. On my Powerbook, 1.5GHz 15" G4, I purchased last November, I just purchased the Applecare warranty 2 weeks ago. My Powerbook hasn't been as lucky as my iMac, the hard drive went bad back in May and I took it into the Apple store (Genius Bar) and they fixed it (replaced HDD) in 4 days. And in July, my optical drive acted up and ate a CD :( . I took it to the Genius Bar in-store and they replaced the optical drive in 2 days. Neither time did I have to purchased the Applecare warranty and when offered I simply told them I would wait until it closer to the 1 year mark since it was currently covered.

Now, if you purchased the product from a 3rd party then you should have registered it right away and found out the original purchase date as determined by Apple. There is no reason for them to decline service to you (in-store) under warranty if the machine was indeed purchased new from Apple within the prior 12 months.
 

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