Why why why are some people so stupid?

jonnyd said:

So now Safari is a cross platform browser, surely the anti trust boys will insist it isn't bundled with OSX, right?

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Only when Jobs hires Ballmer, who then prevents any other browser from loading or cripples the system software so anything other than Safari runs slowly or causes repeated crashes. And threatens to kill the competing browser's business.

Brown Study said:

Only when Jobs hires Ballmer, who then prevents any other browser from loading or cripples the system software so anything other than Safari runs slowly or causes repeated crashes. And threatens to kill the competing browser's business.

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Oh yeah, that's true. IE completely trashes Firefox on my Windows machine. Can't run it at all. Nope.

The lawsuit.

• In May 1995, Microsoft executives attempted to persuade an internet browser software competitor--Netscape Communications Corporation--not to compete with Microsoft and to divide the browser market, with Microsoft becoming the sole supplier of browsers for use with Windows 95 operating systems and with Netscape becoming the sole supplier of browsers for non-Windows 95 operating systems. Netscape refused to participate.

• Microsoft unlawfully required PC manufacturers to agree to license and install its browser, Internet Explorer, as a condition of obtaining licenses for the Windows 95 operating system.

• Microsoft now intends to tie unlawfully its IE Internet browser software to its new Windows 98 operating system, the successor to Windows 95.

• Microsoft continues to misuse its Windows operating system monopoly by requiring personal computer manufacturers to agree, as a condition of acquiring a license to the Windows operating system, to adopt a uniform "boot-up" or "first screen" sequence specified by Microsoft. This sequence determines the screens that every user sees upon turning on a Windows PC. Microsoft's exclusionary restrictions forbid, among other things, any changes by an OEM that would remove from the PC Microsoft's Internet Explorer software or that would add to the PC a competing browser in any more prominent or visible way than the way Microsoft requires Internet Explorer to be presented.

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Careful Brown Study, pointing out all those facts will get you labeled as an MS hater.

BILL GATES IS THE DEVIL!

baggss said:

Careful Brown Study, pointing out all those facts will get you labeled as an MS hater.

BILL GATES IS THE DEVIL!

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Well, if my original post was taken serious enough to require a swipe a the fat dancing one, and half a page of something I didn't read, yes, that is a real possibility. I'd have to at least worry about sense of humour.

One of the unique features of this forum is that there are quite a few Windows users posting here, and they are for the most part allowed to add some objectivity to what can become rather a gushing 'get a Mac, it'll cure cancer and solve Iraq' atmosphere. The switchers forum is seriously good, IMHO - I have seen people told not to bother getting a Mac. By Mac users, as well as the MS users. That's good sporting behaviour.

On the other hand, I have got banned before for being rude to other posters, so what would I know

I think the Windows Safari deal is about adding a level or comfort to potential switchers. Before I ever used OS X I was kind of leary of trying it because of the cost involved. If I don't like a Linux distro I just ditch it in favor of another one. Its kind of hard to ditch a $1500 computer which I think is peoples biggest hang up about switching. The more Apple software you can try for free on a Windows desktop the less mystery there is about owning a Mac. A test drive at the Apple store just doesn't do the trick, it takes a few hours maybe even a week to give a computer/os a good evaluation, Maybe with this they hope to close the gap a little. I saw the interview with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates awhile back to me it seemed like Jobs was toying with him a little, like maybe he was saying you'd better enjoy it because its about over. Apple more or less has been in a reconstruction phase since Jobs came back. It looks to me like they are ready to go head to head with Microsoft now. The next year should be interesting.

jakeroberts said:

I think the Windows Safari deal is about adding a level or comfort to potential switchers. Before I ever used OS X I was kind of leary of trying it because of the cost involved. If I don't like a Linux distro I just ditch it in favor of another one. Its kind of hard to ditch a $1500 computer which I think is peoples biggest hang up about switching. The more Apple software you can try for free on a Windows desktop the less mystery there is about owning a Mac. A test drive at the Apple store just doesn't do the trick, it takes a few hours maybe even a week to give a computer/os a good evaluation, Maybe with this they hope to close the gap a little. I saw the interview with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates awhile back to me it seemed like Jobs was toying with him a little, like maybe he was saying you'd better enjoy it because its about over. Apple more or less has been in a reconstruction phase since Jobs came back. It looks to me like they are ready to go head to head with Microsoft now. The next year should be interesting.

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I don't think it'll get interesting until 10.5 is released - OSX is starting to look a little old now, compared to Vista on a decent PC. A decent PC isn't any more than an entry level Mac.

I think sometimes a fundamental point is overlooked - Apple has always been a hardware company, MS never has. In some ways they shouldn't even be compared. OSX might be a great operating system in its own right, but if it was just competing with Windows on the same hardware, it would go the same way as Linux - a curiosity that most people don't see the need for.

I think Mac users are driven by the hardware. People get excited by a Macbook or whatever, not the operating system. Not everybody can afford those, so the chances of OSX ever getting anywhere near Windows market share are virtually zero.

baggss said:

Careful Brown Study, pointing out all those facts will get you labeled as an MS hater.

jonnyd said:

Well, if my original post was taken serious enough to require a swipe a the fat dancing one, and half a page of something I didn't read, yes, that is a real possibility. I'd have to at least worry about sense of humour.

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It turns out baggss was right.

But it wasn't me who said I hate anyone. Neither was it me who referred to anyone as "the fat dancing one." So no, hatred on my part is not a "real" possibility; it is not even a fictional possibility.

I don't care whether you read the "half-page" of quotation or not. I posted it as a response to yours and because there are more people on this board than simply you.

Oh yeah, that's true. IE completely trashes Firefox on my Windows machine. Can't run it at all. Nope.

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This is exactly what would have been the result had MS been allowed to diddle and twist Java, in addition to its other illegal acts.

This is not an opinion. It is a matter of fact. I'd quote the Java lawsuit by Sun, but I thought the other was enough. Besides, you couldn't be bothered reading it, so ad hominem arguments rather than facts appear to be your game.

Attribute base instincts as motivation for any posts as much as you wish, but when with that intention you shift your sights onto posts made by me, don't expect to do so with impunity.

Brown Study said:

It turns out baggss was right.

But it wasn't me who said I hate anyone. Neither was it me who referred to anyone as "the fat dancing one." So no, hatred on my part is not a "real" possibility; it is not even a fictional possibility.

I don't care whether you read the "half-page" of quotation or not. I posted it as a response to yours and because there are more people on this board than simply you.This is exactly what would have been the result had MS been allowed to diddle and twist Java, in addition to its other illegal acts.

This is not an opinion. It is a matter of fact. I'd quote the Java lawsuit by Sun, but I thought the other was enough. Besides, you couldn't be bothered reading it, so ad hominem arguments rather than facts appear to be your game.

Attribute base instincts as motivation for any posts as much as you wish, but when with that intention you shift your sights onto posts made by me, don't expect to do so with impunity.

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I have no idea why you're so upset about it. I just made a tongue in cheek reference to an imaginary scenario that most people understand is absurd. Of course I don't believe Apple will get busted for anti trust, it's called a joke.

This is the anything goes forum, you don't need to take it all so seriously.
If you don't like what I post, ignore it. That's what I do.

jonnyd said:

.

I think sometimes a fundamental point is overlooked - Apple has always been a hardware company, MS never has. In some ways they shouldn't even be compared. OSX might be a great operating system in its own right, but if it was just competing with Windows on the same hardware, it would go the same way as Linux - a curiosity that most people don't see the need for.

I think Mac users are driven by the hardware. People get excited by a Macbook or whatever, not the operating system. Not everybody can afford those, so the chances of OSX ever getting anywhere near Windows market share are virtually zero.

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Its more than that. The two companies have different philosophies with regards to what they do. I have 1994 Cavalier thats paid for. Its good enough for what I need. We have a 6 year old couch and love seat. Miles of kid stains. Good enough for what we need. You can buy a $400 Windows box thats good enough. I have a Linux PC thats perfect in every way. I also have a 20" iMac that I'm pretty proud of. You can buy lots of Macs that Steve Jobs is pretty proud of. Not Apple, Steve Jobs. He commissions the kind of stuff he would want to use. Microsoft writes the kind of software thats good enough. I think Apple is trying to say "Hey little fella that's pretty neat but look what you can do when you really try." As far as Apple being a hardware company, thats just how it worked out. They started making personal computers when there was no such thing. As far as buying a Mac for the hardware, I guarantee that if I didn't want to run OS X I would replace this Mac with a less expensive Linux PC.

jonnyd said:

Oh yeah, that's true. IE completely trashes Firefox on my Windows machine. Can't run it at all. Nope.

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It's apparent you're too young to remember what happened 10-12 years ago.

Maybe you should go back and read that half page to learn a little about the history of IE.

And if you've read any of my posts you already know I am one of those that can pretty strongly recommend someone staying with windows.
Each OS has it's strong ponts and weak points. Which you go with. has to do with an individuals needs and expectations.

And virt rep Brown, gotta pass it around

jakeroberts said:

Its more than that. The two companies have different philosophies with regards to what they do. I have 1994 Cavalier thats paid for. Its good enough for what I need. We have a 6 year old couch and love seat. Miles of kid stains. Good enough for what we need. You can buy a $400 Windows box thats good enough. I have a Linux PC thats perfect in every way. I also have a 20" iMac that I'm pretty proud of. You can buy lots of Macs that Steve Jobs is pretty proud of. Not Apple, Steve Jobs. He commissions the kind of stuff he would want to use. Microsoft writes the kind of software thats good enough. I think Apple is trying to say "Hey little fella that's pretty neat but look what you can do when you really try." As far as Apple being a hardware company, thats just how it worked out. They started making personal computers when there was no such thing. As far as buying a Mac for the hardware, I guarantee that if I didn't want to run OS X I would replace this Mac with a less expensive Linux PC.

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Yeah, fair enough. I guess we all have our own bias which we try to apply to everything - mine is certainly hardware where Macs are concerned. OSX has never been the driving force behind my decision to purchase a Mac, it has always been that the machine itself is so much cooler than any PC I can buy for the same money.

But it's wrong for me to assume everybody is the same. There's certainly nothing wrong with OSX.

But I think it's at least true to say MS have never been much of a hardware company. I still personally see much of Apples success in the last 5 years has been because of innovation in hardware - the Ipod being the most obvious example, but there are more. The G5 was genuinely new, and the Switch to Intel was done properly - they didn't fart about with cautious experiments, they jumped in with the biggest and fastest chips they could offer.

Each of those 'events' has sent me scuttling off to buy one. Nothing MS ever did ever made me buy a new machine. I'll upgrade from XP to Vista when I replace my laptop, and I get Vista with it. Same with 10.5 - I'll use what I have till then.

But chances are Steve will tempt me long before Bill does

bobtomay said:

It's apparent you're too young to remember what happened 10-12 years ago.

Maybe you should go back and read that half page to learn a little about the history of IE.

And if you've read any of my posts you already know I am one of those that can pretty strongly recommend someone staying with windows.
Each OS has it's strong ponts and weak points. Which you go with. has to do with an individuals needs and expectations.

And virt rep Brown, gotta pass it around

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I know the story. Where do you think my original post came from?

You're all taking this WAY too seriously. My post was a joke. You all seem mightily offended at it.

Bof. C'est la vie, non?

Why are people so stupid? To make the moderately intelligent ones look like GENIUSES!!! ;D

jonnyd said:

I think Mac users are driven by the hardware. People get excited by a Macbook or whatever, not the operating system. Not everybody can afford those, so the chances of OSX ever getting anywhere near Windows market share are virtually zero.

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So, if you bought a MacBook with a blank HDD, and no OS X, you'd feel excited then?. If what you say is true, then why are SO SO many people, getting so worked up about the coming of Leopard?. I feel your comment is _severely_ flawed, in every aspect; it is the _combination_ of beautiful hardware and beautiful, simple to use, hassle free software, that makes a Mac, a Mac!. Harmony between hardware and software, is what Mac is about, not the sole benefits of either one, without the other - that just wouldn't work out.

As a final point; Mac is about quality, not quantity. You could sell 1,000,000 PCs with Vista on them, and 1,000 Macs with OS X on them, and Mac would still "win", if there is such a generalisation to be made, because Apple work MUCH harder, and tweak their systems far more meticulously, to ensure the user has a frustration-free and enjoyable, addictive experience. How can enjoy cleaning up spyware, de-fragging your hdd and waiting for windows to start responding again?. LOL!.

I think you will find, that Steve Jobs is not in it for market share - he is in it to produce beautiful products, for people who, ultimately, know there is a major difference between "Just about works" and "Just WORKS". If he were so bothered about OS X market share, then he would be producing en-masse, millions of PC-installable copies of OS X.

Time will tell, but you also need to keep an open mind about this, and read a little deeper into the situation; consider how *you* would play it, if you were in his shoes...