Suggestion about reputation system

Would like to suggest the rules for giving someone a negative comment be changed (tightened). It ticks me off to get a negative comment simply for nominating someone for Member of the Month! If you don't agree with the person I nominate then just don't vote for him/her, there is no need to get petty. Is there a system set up to monitor those who give negative comments to see how many they are doling out? If so, then start giving those who "abuse" this priviledge negative ratings of their own.

A better way of doing it, since lots of rules are easy to forget, is to notify us of people you feel are abusing the system and we can look in on it on a per person basis and then do something about it... or not depending on what we decide.

I have to agree with PapaNoHair. I'm not sure I even see the benefit of negative rep. It goes against what this site represents to me.

I, too, got negative rep for nominating the "wrong" person for MOTM. I've also received negative rep for making a perfectly valid explanation that someone else thought was wrong (literally ... I got negative rep for a post that said "run Windows on top of OS X with Parallels," the comment from the rep-giver was something like "Windows on top of Mac? you need to learn a lot about computers").

If you won't take neg rep out completely, how about at least removing the ability to snipe it anonymously. The argument in the past is that this leads to "rep wars" but is that really worse than people handing out neg rep out of malice or ignorance? And if you really think it's that big a problem ... that's another hint that neg rep is in and of itself a bad idea.

When is the last time you got to vote both for and against people?

Saying "contact a mod" sounds good in theory, but personally I feel silly going to a mod and whining that I got a boo-boo in my rep.

PapaNoHair said:

Would like to suggest the rules for giving someone a negative comment be changed (tightened). It ticks me off to get a negative comment simply for nominating someone for Member of the Month! If you don't agree with the person I nominate then just don't vote for him/her, there is no need to get petty. Is there a system set up to monitor those who give negative comments to see how many they are doling out? If so, then start giving those who "abuse" this priviledge negative ratings of their own.

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Giving negative rep for nominating someone is unbelievable. You should PM a mod and ask for it to be removed, I am sure they'd agree to it.

ToddG said:

Saying "contact a mod" sounds good in theory, but personally I feel silly going to a mod and whining that I got a boo-boo in my rep.

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er... I read this after I made my comment about mailing a mod.

If I got neg rep for nominating a MOTM, I'd complain, because the mods are asking us to partake in something and you're kinda getting punished.

I was given 3-4 negative reps by different people for the post I made in this thread

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47963&highlight=merry+christmas

in my opinion i think its stupid to neg rep me for that comment but thats just me..

like it or not people will give out negative rep when we dont agree with it but I learn to deal with it..

Negative Rep -- We don't need it here!

I've weighted in on this before in anther similar thread and the final outcome was "there will be no change to the reputation system".

Ok but you see how disruptive and unfair the negative rep system is. I got one the other day for posting a tongue-in-cheek silly post about wanting to make User Bars for $150. Obviously a joke with the accompanying "smiles" all over the place but somebody gave me negative rep and didn't have the guts to put his/her name down. That's wrong.

On my sites I have disabled the negative rep option. If you don't have something good to say -- say nothing. It leads to hard feelings and it's counter productive -- especially on this site where people are friendly, helpful and somewhat playful at times.

I hate it.

The rep system works - people can say thank you - but there is no point in a rep system if people can not give negative rep so removing the negative side would ruin the whole rep system in my opinion.

Unfortunately; some people are perhaps too quick to give negative feedback and maybe for foolish reasons - it would be a shame if these people ruined the system for everyone else.

I don't think you should be allowed to leave anonymous negative rep though - If you want to leave negative rep you should be brave enough to justify that rep with a suitable argument/description/point of view.

Unfortunately I have seen issues with one site where the rep system - someone leaving negative rep for "no reason" - led to a couple of flame wars and ultimately a couple of members left and the rep system was disabled - initially for the short term but that was about 3 years ago... Everyone lost out.

However; I should point out that although I like the rep system, the site which removed it, was able to do so because like this one the community is helpful and the content is interesting - the rep system doesn't add to either of those.

I think we all get negative rep for the most banal posts. I've said it somewhere else too, I'm not too crazy about this system but I came here, the system was already in place and I'm willing to put up with it.

You'll always have abusers no matter what you do or where you go. Look at how email and internet changed with all the spam, scams and phishing going on. Now we're not gonna dump the www just because some parasites are out there, are we? Are making our lives miserable, are trying to rip us off...





Uhm, on second thought...

kodorsean said:

I was given 3-4 negative reps by different people for the post I made in this thread

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47963&highlight=merry+christmas

in my opinion i think its stupid to neg rep me for that comment but thats just me..

like it or not people will give out negative rep when we dont agree with it but I learn to deal with it..

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How about getting a neg rep in the 'A Game For The Ages'? Now that's plain ridiculous...

Pulse-8 said:

How about getting a neg rep in the 'A Game For The Ages'? Now that's plain ridiculous...

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really? what was said? what was the rep comment?

kodorsean said:

I was given 3-4 negative reps by different people for the post I made in this thread

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47963&highlight=merry+christmas

in my opinion i think its stupid to neg rep me for that comment but thats just me..

like it or not people will give out negative rep when we dont agree with it but I learn to deal with it..

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i got a negative rep for this post. negative rep was "haha"

dont feel bad if you get negative rep for no reason what so ever becase you are not the only one.

It's WRONG to give someone Neg Rep for voting for MOTM. Like Murlyn said, Report it to a Mod. The MOTM is a Fair contest and we all have the right to vote for who we think deserves the award.

OMG. You got a bad rep for nominating kman445??? I just don't understand this, kman445 is very cool and was truly worthy of being nominated!

ToddG said:

Saying "contact a mod" sounds good in theory, but personally I feel silly going to a mod and whining that I got a boo-boo in my rep.

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But everyone has no problems airing it out and whining about people giving negative reps? If you REALLY have a problem, contact us. Otherwise feel free to whine to everyone, but the Mods And the way you said, "boo-boo" to your rep, it makes it sound like you don't take it serious.. and if that's the case.. why is there all this whining in the first place? It's a fun system, and who cares if you get a "boo-boo" to your rep.. you don't seem to.. see what Im saying?

Im not just talking about you ToddG, mostly to everyone here. I think people realize it's kind of silly to whine about it.. and kind of silly that it means soooooo much to have a certain reputation points... We added them because we were having problems with people just posting and posting so that they can have a lot of post counts and brag about it. We tried to implement something a bit more fun.. now it's all about reputation points. Here is what I think... if you give great answers, and are a great part of the community. You will invariably get more positive reputation points than negative and people will not even have to look at your reputation points to know that they can trust you and that you are indeed a great part of the community.

Murlyn said:

But everyone has no problems airing it out and whining about people giving negative reps?

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There is a difference between discussing a bad system, and whining about one instance.

Im not just talking about you ToddG, mostly to everyone here. I think people realize it's kind of silly to whine about it.. and kind of silly that it means soooooo much to have a certain reputation points... We added them because we were having problems with people just posting and posting so that they can have a lot of post counts and brag about it. We tried to implement something a bit more fun.. now it's all about reputation points. Here is what I think... if you give great answers, and are a great part of the community. You will invariably get more positive reputation points than negative and people will not even have to look at your reputation points to know that they can trust you and that you are indeed a great part of the community.

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Murlyn -- I'm tempted to give you negative rep for that argument.

On the one hand, you're saying it's not all that important. On the other, you're saying the rep system serves a purpose and you recognize that people pay attention to it.

Regardless, what purpose does negative rep serve? Do you really want your members to punish one another?

Agreed with Murlyn. The Rep system works very well. There are an occacional few that abuse it like in the voting for MOTM case. With those cases like Murlyn stated, contact a Mod. If there was an abuse of the system they will take care of it for you! Great system otherwise and I am not just saying that because of all my green dots either! :spook:

Im not sure where you are confused Todd. Does something have to be important to serve a purpose? People pay attention to some of the silliest things especially on forums, thus the reason why we even have the rep system. And if we get enough people complaining about it then it might have to disappear also, since obviously it's not working.

So there is a choice to be made here by the user. Is it important enough to deal with the downsides of the rep system and keep it, or not deal with it and remove it? That's the choices we have at this point. It's more of a headache for us Mods, but majority of the users like it.. at least up to this point.

We do take everyones ideas and thoughts into consideration, and if we can change the system to something we feel is better, we will.

Right now the issue is people abusing the system and if a person feels like someone else is abusing it, and feels strongly enough to report it to the Mods, then we can look into the problem, but if a person does not feel strongly enough to report it to us, then we do not feel strongly enough to do something about that abuse, since for one.. we do not know about it!

We're giving you a way to report the problem. It's not required that you do, but if you feel strongly enough to create an entire thread dedicated to it, you might as well report the abuse to us.

Thanks dtravis7 for your positive post and making an even more clearcut example than mine, of how easy it is to help make the system work.

Murlyn said:

So there is a choice to be made here by the user. Is it important enough to deal with the downsides of the rep system and keep it, or not deal with it and remove it? That's the choices we have at this point. It's more of a headache for us Mods, but majority of the users like it.. at least up to this point.

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In formal Logic, that's called a False Dilemma. Unless you believe the negative rep cannot be separated from the positive rep for software reasons (which at least one other person here has said isn't the case), then "deal with rep or remove rep" fails to consider the option that this thread was created to discuss: remove the negative rep.

I don't think anyone here is saying the rep system as a whole is a bad thing. It is just one facet of the system -- the part that allows users to snipe other users anonymously -- that seems to draw folks' ire time after time, thread after thread.

Can you, or one of the other mods, explain specifically what benefit you think the negative rep portion of the system brings to Mac-Forums.com?

What if a site like eBay got rid of the ability to leave negative feedback? How comfortable would you feel about making a purchase from someone, knowing that a buyer who had a bad experience with them wasn't able to voice his opinion about it?
It is the same principle here and with any forum that has a rep system.
Does the feedback system on eBay get abused now and again? I am sure it does, but they haven't removed it because over all it is a positive thing.
Again, the same applies here.

Just like what goes up, must come down... Mrs. Garrett was right. You have to take the good, take the bad, take them both and there you have... The Facts of Life. :black:
Just because a few feel that the system is bad doesn't mean it will be removed or edited to accomodate those few when the majority have no issue with it.
If someone were to feel like a person abused the system, then the Mods can look into it when the person notifies us.

I think a major point is being missed here.

If I post a response to someone on a thread, saying "ha ha" or "idiot", then I'll get a terse response, maybe even a ban and lose some credibility with the board. There is a consequence to this action.

If I send a PM to someone, telling them I think they're an idiot. They can respond, complain, call me an idiot back, set me to their ignore list or whatever. Again, a consequence to the action.

If I randomly leave negative rep for someone, for no reason, saying 'idiot', I'm pretty likely to get away with it and antagonise that person quite a lot. Leaving someone an anonymous message via a rep system, simply for the pleasure of annoying someone, can't be a good thing and there are clearly people on this board who use the rep system for exactly that purpose.

I agree with MacHeadCase, I came here, the system was in place and really it doesn't bother me that much but of course I do like getting positive rep because it helps me know where I am helping people, or not. The rep system seems to be the one way people can abuse each other and get away with it, and this is the point being made.