I think it's time to switch

cwa107


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Hello all, I'm new here and just began lurking to try to absorb as much as I can about the Mac and its community before I jump in.

Just a little about myself - I've been a computer geek since I was a kid. I cut my teeth on a Commodore 64 and gradually moved up to the Amiga where I really learned to love computing. As I got out of school and into the real world, I started using PCs and have been solidly in the Windows camp since Win95. I now working as a network administrator in a large enterprise environment, hold various certifications (MCSE, A+ and Network+) and even run a small PC repair business on the side. But something has happened these past few years that sort of crept up on me unexpectedly. I've found myself bored with the current crop of Windows machines. I used to love exploring new software, finding new and innovative ways of doing things, and figuring out problems and how best to fix them.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my job and I love troubleshooting. But there's something about the fact that I spend the majority of my computing time troubleshooting, maintaining and basically keeping Windows machines working the way they should that bothers me. I remember being wonderfully productive on my old Amigas. Now I feel like all I do is spend my time making up for the shortcomings of Windows.

To me, Vista is the last straw. Draconian DRM schemes, a gussied-up GUI and the recommended requirement of 1GB of RAM (just for starters) do not make for a revolutionary OS - especially one that took over 6 years to build. Add that to the fact that they want an arm and a leg for even the most basic versions is simply adding insult to injury. To me Windows Vista is nothing more than putting lipstick on a pig. It might look prettier - but it's still a pig.

I tried Linux for a little while, Ubuntu 6.06 and 6.10 to be more precise, but it's my opinion that Linux still has a lot more growing up to do before it's ready for prime time on the desktop. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy learning a new OS, but configuring and mastering Linux can take years - and I really don't feel like reading forums ad nauseum just to get drivers and basic functionality working. Once the Linux world starts to actually come up with some standards for even just one facet of their OS, I'll take a second look. Until then, it's just a toy to me.

So, based on my love of my iPod, I figured it's time to check into the Mac - particularly now that Apple has gone Intel. Don't get me wrong, I still think the PowerPC line is a better overall CPU than any x86 processor, but Motorola/IBM simply don't have the resources to dedicate to CPU development that Intel and AMD do. It's also handy that in the event I needed to run a Windows app, I can easily do so using Bootcamp.

I last touched a Macintosh back in the days of OS8. I can't say that I was very impressed back then, especially as someone accustomed to the overall excellence that was the Amiga, but I know the world has changed by several orders of magnitude since then. OS X just looks awesome and I'm ready to own a computer that "just works". I'd also like to feel like I'm a member of a tightly-knit community of enthusiasts once again. To me, that is the true appeal of the Mac - to be different, part of something - and ultimately, part of something that is better than the garbage Microsoft tries to shove down the throats of the masses.

OK, thanks for sticking with me, I know that was a long rant ;)

As I said before, I'm in the market for a Mac. I've lusted after a 12" Powerbook G4 for some time now, but I really want something that runs on Intel. I've searched the forum quite a bit, but I haven't caught any rumors of Apple producing a 12" MacBook Pro (yet). Have any of you heard anything?

I've also heard a lot of rumblings about the 1st generation of Intel machines. I really would rather not stick it out and wait for the 2nd generation, but have there been any rumors of when we might expect it?

Anyway, looks like a great forum you have here and I'm looking forward to contributing to it. Thanks for listening.
 
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I have a MacBook Pro, but I would say wait a month to get a new one. So either it will have, or be likely for a cheap upgrade to the next OS. Not to mention MacWorld is coming up, and they release new stuff there usually. I think that's Jan 8th-12th
 

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excellent first post, got a great feel for where you're coming from.

i too have a lot of experience with computers and i'm in wintel server support for a huge electronics retailer.

but every time my mac works in a, well... mac-like way i grin from ear to ear.

one of my reasons for switching was just to learn something different (pretty much same as you it seems). and you certainly will learn some new stuff, from the bare bones of how the os functions, to compatability issues, to new and different apps, etc. it's all pretty exciting.

as far as the intel machines go... i've got the latter core duo macbook and i've had no problems. they went to core2duo a month or so ago and i haven't heard anything yet, so you should be fine.

good luck finding a mac that fits you, i hope you keep us posted on all the steps you go through (buying, first impressions, software assimialtion, etc), especially if those threads are headed with such well written posts!
 
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cwa107

cwa107


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excellent first post, got a great feel for where you're coming from.

i too have a lot of experience with computers and i'm in wintel server support for a huge electronics retailer.

but every time my mac works in a, well... mac-like way i grin from ear to ear.

one of my reasons for switching was just to learn something different (pretty much same as you it seems). and you certainly will learn some new stuff, from the bare bones of how the os functions, to compatability issues, to new and different apps, etc. it's all pretty exciting.

as far as the intel machines go... i've got the latter core duo macbook and i've had no problems. they went to core2duo a month or so ago and i haven't heard anything yet, so you should be fine.

good luck finding a mac that fits you, i hope you keep us posted on all the steps you go through (buying, first impressions, software assimialtion, etc), especially if those threads are headed with such well written posts!

Thanks. It sounds like you know exactly where I'm coming from. I'm just so bored with computers lately - and I hate that feeling. I used to have a lot of enthusiasm for them and felt like it was one of those small things that sort of "defined" me. I've lost that lately and I think that's my biggest motivator for trying something new.

Anyway, I'm dieing to get a Mac. I've been bidding on 12" PowerBooks on eBay, but have yet to find what I'm after at a good price. I'd really like an Intel machine, but I'm concerned that I won't find a whole lot of software that runs on it. Is there some sort of PPC emulation on the Intel Macs?

I thought about a MacBook, mostly because I like the smaller form factor that the 13" screen provides, but I'm not too fond of integrated graphics. I'd also like a Cardbus slot for expandability and the faster Firewire 800 port should I do any video work.

So, since I can't find exactly what I'm looking for at the moment, I think I might just wait until after Macworld to see what's new. Meanwhile, I'm going to continue lurking in Mac forums and maybe pick up a subscription to MacAddict in the meantime. I just hope that doesn't fuel the fire... but it probably will :p
 
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I can't share this information enough to people like you (i.e. MYSELF) who's steeped in everything Windows for the past few years, so i'll keep saying it -

Look around for third party software that will allow you to change the mouse acceleration curve to match that of you Windows machine, at least to start.

When I started test driving Mac's, the frustration of trying to control that mouse pointer was an absolute mess. Gave me a sore hand/wrist after a few minutes of use, and just wrecked my experience altogether. Still, I knew there was something that was drawing me to Macs..

So I got on Google and found out why. Downloaded a third-party mousing software, and everything was gold after that.

Because of work I still have to be in a Windows environment everyday. No sense "changing gears" everyday when there is a reasonable solution.
 
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Anyway, I'm dieing to get a Mac. I've been bidding on 12" PowerBooks on eBay, but have yet to find what I'm after at a good price. I'd really like an Intel machine, but I'm concerned that I won't find a whole lot of software that runs on it. Is there some sort of PPC emulation on the Intel Macs?


Yes there is. It's called "Rosetta" and it's part of the OSX Intel package. It allows Apple Intel machines to execute PPC code through a built in invisible emulator, you won't know it's even running. There somewhat of a performance hit when compared to a PPC machine in there, but it's not to bad.

For example, MS Office 2004 Mac was not written for the Intel Macs, but it runs nearly as well on my wife's iMac (2 Ghz CoreDuo) as it does on my Quad G5. MS Office Mac 2008 will support both the Intel and PPC machines in one package and will be what Apple terms a "Universal Binary", i.e it runs on OSX on either system architecture. Eventually they will move away from Universal and go to only Intel, but that will be some years down the road. OSX 10.5 will also be "Universal" as it will run on anything from a PPC G3 to an Intel Cor2Duo and beyond.
 
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cwa107

cwa107


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I can't share this information enough to people like you (i.e. MYSELF) who's steeped in everything Windows for the past few years, so i'll keep saying it -

Look around for third party software that will allow you to change the mouse acceleration curve to match that of you Windows machine, at least to start.

When I started test driving Mac's, the frustration of trying to control that mouse pointer was an absolute mess. Gave me a sore hand/wrist after a few minutes of use, and just wrecked my experience altogether. Still, I knew there was something that was drawing me to Macs..

So I got on Google and found out why. Downloaded a third-party mousing software, and everything was gold after that.

Because of work I still have to be in a Windows environment everyday. No sense "changing gears" everyday when there is a reasonable solution.

Thanks for the tip. Do I understand it correctly that there are no controls to set the speed or acceleration of the mouse, or is it just that those controls don't provide the same degree of acceleration as I have come to expect on Windows machines?
 
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As I said before, I'm in the market for a Mac. I've lusted after a 12" Powerbook G4 for some time now, but I really want something that runs on Intel. I've searched the forum quite a bit, but I haven't caught any rumors of Apple producing a 12" MacBook Pro (yet). Have any of you heard anything?

Apparently there is a rumor about a 12" MBP in other websites including this one. But I wouldn't go and buy it until I know that there are no major issues.

I've also heard a lot of rumblings about the 1st generation of Intel machines. I really would rather not stick it out and wait for the 2nd generation, but have there been any rumors of when we might expect it?

Anyway, looks like a great forum you have here and I'm looking forward to contributing to it. Thanks for listening.
By now Apple managed to ironout all the major issues they had with the Intel Macs.

It is highly likely that Steve Jobs introduces something new on 8th January during the MacWorld Expo.
 
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OSX 10.5 will also be "Universal" as it will run on anything from a PPC G3 to an Intel Cor2Duo and beyond.
If a recent Leopard preview screen shot is any indicator, G3 processors will not be supported. You'll need a G4 or G5 or Intel machine.
 
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It is highly likely that Steve Jobs introduces something new on 8th January during the MacWorld Expo.
I for one am not expecting any new computers. If they do announce that, I'll expect the portable (12") Macbook Pro, or a consumer tower, the only holes in their product lines. Well, beside that draggy Intel graphics processor.

We're likely to hear more about iTV and Leopard and maybe even get better defined delivery dates. Many people expect a major update to the iLife suite too, so that would be 'new'.
 
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If a recent Leopard preview screen shot is any indicator, G3 processors will not be supported. You'll need a G4 or G5 or Intel machine.

Apple advertised at the 10.5 preview event that it would support the G3 and up.
 
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As I said before, I'm in the market for a Mac..
As I'm sure your know, with any computer purchase, you need to define what your needs are.

The Macbook may be fine for you if you don't require the performance of a didicated video card. iMovie and Final Cut Express will work fine on that machine. The OS has many hooks that take advantage of the dedicated graphics chips, but doesn't require it. Of course games always do better with dedicated graphics chips.

Unless you have access to a video camera that requires Firewire 800, Firewire 400 will be perfectly fine. Not all consumer video cameras come with Firewire, so check, because OS X right now does not like the USB2 only cameras. There are more hard drive enclosures with FW800 now too, but try to find out if the performance is really there.

I consider the newer laptops with the Core 2 Duo chips to be the second generation of the Apple Intel laptops. They came out recently.

Since the Macworld show is so close and you seem to have time, wait until after the keynote speech.
 
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Apple advertised at the 10.5 preview event that it would support the G3 and up.
For some reason I think I remember that in the video they released of the developer keynote. Lets hope for the sake of G3 users, that holds true.

The last G3 iBook release seems to have been April 2003. Not that old. It was replaced with a G4 in October of that year.

The first G4 tower was introduced at the end August of 1999. That is a very old machine.

I really have to wonder where the cut off point will be this time around. They don't want to support hardware that goes too far back, such as my G3 Wallstreet, which lost official support with the introduction of Panther (10.3).
 
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I did some searching around the web and came up with the impression that 10.5 may not support the 1st generation of G3s that Apple used. The ones that were still in the beige boxes and such.
 
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Here is a list of hardware that Tiger currently supports.

Notice what is missing. All of the Intel hardware. That is because you can't buy 10.4 in the store with Intel support. That will of course have to change for Leopard.

baggss, that the hardware you referred to is already not included in that list.
 
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Hmm, I seem to recall seeing Tiger for Intel Macs at an Apple store, something on the box said Intel Compatible IIRC. I'm pretty sure the current "over the counter" version of OSX will work on the intel machines. Can anyone confirm this?

And yes it's not there, but there are people running Tiger on those boxes.
 

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maybe i'm missing something...

wouldn't all intel macs have shipped with the intel version of tiger - due to the time they were finally made available? would that be why apple determined they didn't have to release an intel version of the (stand alone) software to the public? since anyone who would be buying it would be upgrading a ppc mac... (barring loss or destruction of your intel tiger disks)


btw, a search at amazon results in two versions of osx tiger. the new version has a "warning" comment posted that the new version will not work on intel macs.
 
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As I'm sure your know, with any computer purchase, you need to define what your needs are.

The Macbook may be fine for you if you don't require the performance of a didicated video card. iMovie and Final Cut Express will work fine on that machine. The OS has many hooks that take advantage of the dedicated graphics chips, but doesn't require it. Of course games always do better with dedicated graphics chips.

Unless you have access to a video camera that requires Firewire 800, Firewire 400 will be perfectly fine. Not all consumer video cameras come with Firewire, so check, because OS X right now does not like the USB2 only cameras. There are more hard drive enclosures with FW800 now too, but try to find out if the performance is really there.

I consider the newer laptops with the Core 2 Duo chips to be the second generation of the Apple Intel laptops. They came out recently.

Since the Macworld show is so close and you seem to have time, wait until after the keynote speech.

I've been kicking the standard MacBook around for awhile now and there's a number of things that irk me about it in addition to the technical specs. I have a feeling (knowing me) that if I splurge on a brand new machine and don't get the best of what's available, I'll constantly yearn for what I perceive to be the better machine. The chiclet keyboard is a definite turnoff (although I have yet to actually type on one). I genuinely detest integrated graphics, not because I'm an avid gamer, but because I don't want to feel limited by my hardware if I do decide to play a game or two.

That same reasoning is why I'd rather have the Firewire 800, Cardbus slot and the other minor extras the Macbook Pro affords. It's not that I have an immediate need for these features, but that I want to know they're there when I plunk down a serious chunk of change. If I can have them for just a few hundred dollars over a black MacBook (which I'd much rather have than a white one), it seems like a justifiable expense - at least in my mind.

Either way, I'm going to stick it out for a few more weeks and see what comes up at Macworld.
 

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This is my first post here, and only adding on here due to the similarity in cwa107 and my experiences.
Started with a TI 99 if anyone remembers when TI was in the computer business. Am a game player from way back, and by the time of 95 had already started building my own systems. Could handle upgrading, but couldn't handle buying a new system every 9 months or so to play that new game I had my eyes on back then.

Not in the IT field, but did spend a couple of years doing tech support for Dell and MS (98SE days).

"To me, Vista is the last straw. Draconian DRM schemes, a gussied-up GUI"

That's what has really got me also. Have spent time over the last 3 months playing with multiple flavors of Linux for the umpteenth time since around '97. It's almost there, and really enjoy all the tweaking available, but with not enough time available to start searching the web and reading for hours to accomplish some tasks and no interest in going back to the Dos days, no thanks.

The kid got him an iMac, so I took the plunge with the MacBook Pro yesterday. That and the fact that to get the same processor and video card on a PC notebook, the price couldn't be touched (Dell for example would have been an extra $700 minimum).

So far so good except for 1) taking me a whole day to figure out there "ARE" right click menus available on this thing (after I plugged in a spare mouse) and 2) just now while writing this took a chance and discovered how to use the delete key in both directions.

Overall, after one day of tweaking, installing a few needed apps (only took me an hour to figure that one out), am pretty impressed with looks, feel and build quality. Nice features as the keyboard just lit up for me as its getting dark. Need some more tweaking and then to get me an HDtv card and try it out as a dvr.
 
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cwa107

cwa107


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This is my first post here, and only adding on here due to the similarity in cwa107 and my experiences.
Started with a TI 99 if anyone remembers when TI was in the computer business. Am a game player from way back, and by the time of 95 had already started building my own systems. Could handle upgrading, but couldn't handle buying a new system every 9 months or so to play that new game I had my eyes on back then.

Not in the IT field, but did spend a couple of years doing tech support for Dell and MS (98SE days).

"To me, Vista is the last straw. Draconian DRM schemes, a gussied-up GUI"

That's what has really got me also. Have spent time over the last 3 months playing with multiple flavors of Linux for the umpteenth time since around '97. It's almost there, and really enjoy all the tweaking available, but with not enough time available to start searching the web and reading for hours to accomplish some tasks and no interest in going back to the Dos days, no thanks.

The kid got him an iMac, so I took the plunge with the MacBook Pro yesterday. That and the fact that to get the same processor and video card on a PC notebook, the price couldn't be touched (Dell for example would have been an extra $700 minimum).

So far so good except for 1) taking me a whole day to figure out there "ARE" right click menus available on this thing (after I plugged in a spare mouse) and 2) just now while writing this took a chance and discovered how to use the delete key in both directions.

Overall, after one day of tweaking, installing a few needed apps (only took me an hour to figure that one out), am pretty impressed with looks, feel and build quality. Nice features as the keyboard just lit up for me as its getting dark. Need some more tweaking and then to get me an HDtv card and try it out as a dvr.

I think a lot of us old-school geeks are feeling the same way about Vista. Hopefully it will go the way of Windows ME and consumers will see it for what it really is - Microsoft submitting to the RIAA and MPAA while simultaneously dumping all of the useful features that were originally on the drawing board in a half-baked effort to release new product quickly. Wishful thinking, I know, but if Microsoft loses a significant amount of market share in the next 5 years, it might make them think twice. At this point, it looks like Apple's market share is very steadily gaining. I know a lot of my fellow geeks are talking about the Mac more than ever now that it's gone Intel. Even PC Magazine loves the Intel Macs.

Anyway, back on topic... right now, I am tossed up between two machines. I could either continue to try to strike a deal on eBay for a 12" PB G4 or just bite the bullet and buy a refurbished first gen MacBook Pro. My company has an employee purchase program with Apple and I can get one for around $1200 (with free shipping). That seems like a steal to me as I couldn't get a PC with equivalent specs for that kind of money.

What to do, what to do.... ugh. My plan at the moment is to see what Santa Claus (e.g. my wife) brings me and if she didn't break the bank on gifts this year, I'll probably take the splurge right after Christmas and pick up the refurbished MacBook Pro deal. Otherwise, I'll continue to bid on 12" PowerBooks or see what shakes out at Macworld in January.
 

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