Is it the right time to upgrade to an intel-based Macbook?

Hi, it's been awhile since I've visited the forum, but you guys are always my first stop when it comes to anything Apple. I feel that it's getting close for me to "retire" my faithful iBook. It was my first Mac and it was bought second-hand off of eBay. I've been through a logic-board replacement, a screen LCD replacement and a new HD. Even though it's "only" a G3 processor running at 800mhz, it's powered its way through my last three years of uni. It's an impressive machine despite its age and supposed obsolescence, but it's time for an upgrade.

I've been looking at the new Macbooks (particularly, the 1.8ghz, 512mb, 60gb entry model) but I'm still not sure if I'm sold on the idea of an Intel-based processor. However, I suppose that I shouldn't let that small caveat dissuade me from the macbook--times change, I suppose.

The entry-level machine should be MORE than adequate for my needs (web, email, MS Word, iTunes, Garage Band, cd-ripping and burning, etc.) However, the possibility of DVD-burning could come in handy for larger projects (I'm a journalism student and I'll be using Quark Xpress a lot.) Also, as a musician, I'd like to be able to utilize the new audio inputs for quick projects in Garage Band and/or Audacity.

My main concern is the recent release of the Intel Duo Core 2 chip. How will this new 64-bit dual-core chip make the Duo Core obsolete, or will it? As I understand it, the new chip is supposed to coincide with the release of Leopard which is looming on the horizon, am I right? From what I've heard, Leopard will really be able to take advantage of the new chip. If that's the case, I'd definitely go with the most recent release. Problem is, I am a university student and money is always scarce. I figured that I would ask my parents for the computer as a Christmas present. I should also mention that Apple's new student-rebates are a joke. $50.00 off!? It used to be $100.00 plus an iPod, what gives?

I'm also looking at the refurbs of the previous version of the Macbooks which offer a nice value ($899 for the entry-level 'book.) There is also a nice deal via Amazon.com for the previous Macbook priced at $949 after rebate. I'm not worried about buying a refurb because Apple's customer service has always impressed me and I do intend to purchase Apple-care.

Is it also possible that Leopard will be handicapped by the Macbooks regardless of processor? In other words, will Leopard only be fully-utilized with higher-end machines anyway? I'm sure I'm looking too far into things since I don't think Apple would release a computer that would be terribly obsolete in less than a year...would they?

Should I wait for the next release, assuming there is one, that would be made specifically for Leopard? The fact that my iBook has been more than impressive the last few years has me feeling that no matter which machine I choose, I'll be set for a few years.

Gosh, this has been an extremely long and odious post and I'd surely appreciate any help you guys could offer me!

Thanks a ton!

Justin

Not sure if this will be super helpful, but I just upped from an ibook G4 to a C2D macbook (black, stock 1gig ram). On the way I tried a 2.0 core duo 512 (white). I got the white one for 1399 (canadian 150 off) The next day I realized that I could just buy a 512 stick to bring it to one gig. This meant that I would have to spend 200 to bring it up to a gig (total cost 1500 canadian) Well, the updated one has a gig stock and with the ed discount a black one (twice the ram, twice the hard, drive, twice the cool plus core 2 duo) was 1550 canadian. I returned the white one and ordered a black.

Anyway, direct comparisson. The 2.0 with 512 felt very slow with multi tasking. Lots of pin wheels. I didn't notice much heat but I didn't do any heavey work with it. I did not like this one compared to my ibook. The new one with the full gig, feels like it flies and it is reasonbly cool. I love how it works and glad I spent the extra 50 bucks. So far a little over a week and still in love.

The best part of the macbook is I was able to go from 4 computers to 2 (imac as well in studio) I need a Windows laptop on occasion and the bootcamp runs XP better than any pc I have owned.

Take the leap, the macbook is very nice, but opt for the newest model with the full gig, bigger hard drive and the core 2 duo.

bone

So do you think that I should just spring for the mid-level 2.0ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb, superdrive core duo 2? It actually doesn't sound that bad after all.

I'm in the same boat!

JBarbier -
You can see the specs of the current MacBooks here. You'll see that you needn't spend any extra money for a Core 2 Duo processor. However, going up to the more expensive white version will give you your DVD burner, as well as 1 GB ram, and a few more things that speed it up a bit (slightly faster processor, more L2 cache). Oh, and the drive is a bit larger. Going from the more expensive white version to the black version only gets you a larger HD, everything else appears to be identical.

I have been wondering what else could be bumped up on these MacBooks, given that their recent 'refresh' had them go up to the Core 2 Duo processor. ANYONE HAVE IDEAS ON THE NEXT REFRESH?

My guess is that now is a great time to buy since I can't fathom much in the way of change for a while... but I'd LOVE for someone to prove me wrong!!

Elements that will (eventually) be upgraded in future MacBook refreshes:
PROCESSOR: This will increase in speed a bit, but will stay with the Core 2 Duo (Merom) chip. (Must wait for April 07 for next major bump in Merom specs, which according to Wikipedia is just a bump in bus speeds.) L2 cache should be the same for a while.

RAM: I can't see more than 1GB coming standard on the MacBook for quite a while. And I haven't read enough to know what affects the total amount of RAM which the hardware can support.

SCREEN: The size ain't gonna change from 13.3" for a while either. It is too close to 15" already, and bumping it to 14" wouldn't make sense to me.

HARD DRIVE: These will continue to go up, little by little. Since you can buy an external Firewire drive for so cheap now, it seems that this isn't so big a deal. (IMHO)

GRAPHICS: I imagine Leopard will run more tricks with a better graphics chip .. anyone know of what is in the pipes? (Not necessarily at Apple, just in the industry for notebook computers.) Call me old fasioned, but it seems 64 GB of memory (albeit shared) is good enough for a 'low end' notebook. This ain't a MacBook Pro we're talking about here.

FIREWIRE: Please, please, please give us FW800! We've been good boys and girls, now please Mr. Jobs, grant us this one little wish! (Not sure why they are holding out on this. Surely they could cram in 1 FW400 and 1 FW800 ... or maybe the FW800 can also handle FW400? Probably not.)

OTHER: It already has 1GB ethernet, WiFi G (and supposedly draft-N), Bluetooth, wireless remote ... what else do you want? A floppy drive?

WHAT ELSE DID I MISS, PEOPLE?

So JBarbier, unless there are folks here reading this that have other ideas than mine, I'd say it is time for you (and me) to buy a MacBook now and start enjoying it! (I'm currently writing this from my PowerBook 400MHz 'Pismo' that I bought on craigslist for $100 recently. It is my first Mac since the original one my folks got me ... in 1985! It is good to come back from many years lost in the dark side.)

Hello ... anyone else want to chime in here?

I think you have answered your own questions to an extent. The fact that even the lowest entry level MacBook will do what you want comfortably, means that it certainly won't be obsolete if and when the Intel 64-bit chip is released.

The difference in Speed between a MacBook and a G3 is pretty staggering - you'll be blown away.

Your instincts about getting a DVD drive are good ones. I think CD-ROM burners are very old hat and backing up photos, music or anything really, often requires more than the 650MBs you get on a CD (even most digital cameras now have 1 gig cards). So get one with a DVD burner... it's worth the extra cash. Also, 1 gig of RAM is standard... if you get a refurbished or older MacBook, get a gig. 512MB will give you half the experience.

Now on to Intel. CPUs change. It may be true that 2 years ago, Intel lagged behind AMD and for some tasks the G5, but there is little doubt that the Core Duo series is something special. It's low powered, fairly cool and stupidly fast, clock for clock, compared to Pentiums and A64s. My previous laptop was actually an AMD64 3000+ which positively crawled compared to my Core Duo. In fact Windows under Parallels on my MacBook is actually faster than it was native on my AMD Windows Notebook - and believe me, the A64 is no slouch.

If you don't like Intel for other reasons, that's fair enough. However Apple will be with them for a long time and your only alternative will be either a G4 (which will be very out of date in the next few years) or get a Windows machine and get AMD. I think the Intel Mac is the way to go. I expect my Core Duo to be good for 3 years, at least.

Zoolook said:

If you don't like Intel for other reasons, that's fair enough.

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I've no beef with Intel, per se, it's rather the Windoze OS (which I'll admit is getting a lot better!) I have no problem with an Intel-based Mac, but the whole idea of a Mac being able to run Windows makes me wanna throw-up in my mouth a little

Actually, if PCs are ever set up to run OS X natively, THEN I'll throw-up. My biggest fear is buying a computer and not going with the Core Duo 2 chip. I want to be able to take full advantage of Leopard when the time comes and from what I've heard so far the Core Duo 2 will do just that: be able to take full advantage of whatever Leopard's serving.

JBarbier said:

I've no beef with Intel, per se, it's rather the Windoze OS (which I'll admit is getting a lot better!) I have no problem with an Intel-based Mac, but the whole idea of a Mac being able to run Windows makes me wanna throw-up in my mouth a little

Actually, if PCs are ever set up to run OS X natively, THEN I'll throw-up. My biggest fear is buying a computer and not going with the Core Duo 2 chip. I want to be able to take full advantage of Leopard when the time comes and from what I've heard so far the Core Duo 2 will do just that: be able to take full advantage of whatever Leopard's serving.

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You don't have to install windows on your Mac, it's just an option. I run it in Parallels to run MS Money... that's the only reason.

As for your second point, there will be nothing at all that a Core2Duo can do in leopard that a CoreDuo can't. C2D is not 64-bit BTW, I am not sure where you got that from. It just has more internal cache and some pipeline improvements - the leap from CD to C2D is far smaller than the G4 to G5 or even the Pentium 4 to Core Duo.

Zoolook said:

You don't have to install windows on your Mac, it's just an option. I run it in Parallels to run MS Money... that's the only reason.

As for your second point, there will be nothing at all that a Core2Duo can do in leopard that a CoreDuo can't. C2D is not 64-bit BTW, I am not sure where you got that from. It just has more internal cache and some pipeline improvements - the leap from CD to C2D is far smaller than the G4 to G5 or even the Pentium 4 to Core Duo.

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You are wrong in a number of ways.

Core duo chips found in laptops are only 32-bit addressable. Core 2 duo chips found in laptops are both 32 and 64-bit addressable. If you need some hard facts feel free to search on intels web-site. Or even better you can click my thumbnail to see my previous C2D alienware m5750 running the 64-bit 5744 build of vista.


Another great upgrade that the C2D chips have for the laptop line is the extra 2mb of cache (making it 4mb, but some of the lower line C2D chips still only come with 2mb total). This is where most of the increase is being made (given your average increase over standard use is 10-14% on a C2D:CD).
The C2D chip also offers excellent virtualization; something the majority of 'laegacy' chips dont offer.
Last but not least; some CD chips are running 533mhz fsb while C2D chips are running 667mhz fsb.

Dark said:

CD chips are running 533mhz fsb while C2D chips are running 667mhz fsb.

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I was under the impression that they ran the same fsb speed. ??? haha. All I'll be doing is web, MS Word, Quark Xpress, Photoshop, Corel draw and other rather diminuitive tasks. I think I'll be okay if I spring for the CD... But, the C2D seems like a decent deal since it's upped the RAM a bit.... I guess it comes down to the fact that currently an 800MHz G3 iBook is getting the job done. A CD Macbook will MOSDEF get it done!

Both of the macbook's (CD and C2d) specs state they had 667mhz FSB.

wytwolf said:

Both of the macbook's (CD and C2d) specs state they had 667mhz FSB.

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Yep thats true but the CD line actually had 533 and 667 chips. :mac: