You've almost got me

I've used macs a lot. A couple of my jobs have been mac only, and so I was forced to use them. There was alot to like, but as someone with his feet in both worlds, and as a very longtime win user (for years win was the only game in laptops ) much of the derision heaped on win by mac users is untrue, and has made me leary to switch my personal laptop.

I want a good computer, not to join some church. The most unstable machine I have ever used was a imac and I've seen just as many folks cursing at their locked up macs as winpcs. My daughter used a 500mhz win2000 laptop all through 4 years in the ivy league, and watched every one of her 5 roomates pricey ibooks die before they graduated, while the little sony she had used in HS is still working fine (how she can survive with a 9gb system drive is beyond me), so for all the mac users who have no win experience and just parrot the slander, don't even bother.

But I teach design at a film school, and Final Cut Pro is a bit of a must. I do appreciate the macstyle thing, look forward to a more secure trojan free workspace and I would like to support apple's superior corporate ethic. I may find more of the hype to actually be true, and find my former disapointment with the mac cult BS dissolve once I own my own machine, but the extra cost is a real consideration for me, and I don't want to end up hamstrung.

Now with macbooks, I can continue to run my dataflex database and other win software I have a long investment in, and still join your snooty mac club. I know that Bootcamp builds driver patches but how well will it work as a win machine. Will it plug and play with other perpherals? Will it run vista?

I want to switch, I need a new machine, and I am on the verge. I love macs, I have always thought they were great machines. But as you can tell, I've been very put off by the silly "my os can beat up your os" thing, especially when in so many ways it just hasn't been true.

I've seen a couple of ads on ebay where people say they are selling their macbooks because they need a win enviornment for work. With bootcamp, I don't see why this should be true (I'm in the same boat, and will apparently need win to access some of my company's network features). Can some of the less zealous of you convince me that I should take the plunge and get a macbook pro, or even perhaps, that with my bad attitude that I should not.

I have been a long time Windows user... and still am (@ work).

You seem very level headed, and I am positive you will be happy with the MBP, as long as you continue to understand that ALL systems have errors from time to time (although.. SOME a lot more than others)~ Sorry, I couldn't help myself

If Final Cut is a "Must"... Then I really don't see where you have much choice at all.

Just my .02

I hate to be the pessimist, but Windows under Bootcamp may not necessarily support all hardware situations. Thus, if you have some weird network features that the drivers or other Software isn't there for, you're a bit sunk...


But the chances of that happening are seriously remote. Since Bootcamp even roars on really Hardcore games, your little network will run fine. If you really need it, that is. You can always also look at Parallels, which cuts out having to reboot every time you wanna use Windows.

Are you sure thos special network features are windows only?

nesdon said:

...or even perhaps, that with my bad attitude that I should not.

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I think that sentence sums it up nicely.

Are you sure thos special network features are windows only?[/QUOTE]

No, but a couple of the other professors whose personal computers are macs seem to go over to the desktops provided by the school from time to time.

there are lots of files on the school server that i need, but most of them are word.docs or excel, which i assume will be no problem from the osx side. There are a few from filemaker, but I tend to think of that as a mac app anyway, so I won't really know what the limitations are until i run into them.

I tend to really appreciate the xp sp2 plug and paly with peripherals, and recall a bit of a problem with some hardware on macs, tho I do have to say that I most of my experience was running OS9, so maybe i will be very pleasantly surprised. A few folk have said they have run osx for many months without a reboot. I like that. And I guess the paternal thing is part of what keeps macs safe from spyware and viruses, so, I like that too.

If Final Cut is a "Must"... Then I really don't see where you have much choice at all.

Just my .02[/QUOTE]

Well they are all on avids in their editing labs, so i could migrate over there, but I've worked on some films in final cut, and love that program, and the dvexpress that will run on pcs is not nearly as nice as fcp.

Love that signature quote.

Obviously the choice is yours to make, and not much any of us have to say is going to change any pre-exsisting "atittudes" you have about either OS... BUT... I will say this. I was in the same sort of "one the fence" situation about a year ago.. at that time for me, I just didn't pull the trigger. I figured OSX simply can not be 1/2 as great as he hype that surrounds it. I stayed with my MS systems and moved on.

I continued to ponder the idea of switching in the back of my mind for quite a while. I really just needed a push. For me that push came in the form of Boot Camp/Parallels (I use parallels.. but it is/was more of a seurity blanket.. that I no longer even desire).... and finally the C2D chips and a lower price (iMac).. I ordered as soon as I heard the C2D's were released.

Honestly... If I were you (such a cliche term) .... I would wait... but ONLY until the MBP's are released with the C2D's (or better)... Then I wouldn't hesitate for even an hour. When the Apple store comes back online showing the updated MBP's.. I'd be the 1st to order. again... just my .02

nesdon said:

(for years win was the only game in laptops )

...much of the derision heaped on win by mac users is untrue...

...the silly "my os can beat up your os" thing, especially when in so many ways it just hasn't been true.

Can some of the less zealous of you convince me that I should take the plunge and get a macbook pro, or even perhaps, that with my bad attitude that I should not.

Click to expand...

Wow! Your defensive attitude and interest in Mac is interesting. Have you got two personalities? :biohazard

I think you need to follow some threads, stories and reviews of both Bootcamp and Parallels to get a little more comfortable with your need and use of Windows on a Mac Intel box. One thing you'll likely need is a mouse since the Mac laptops only have one button. Perhaps software can emulate multiple buttons. I'm not sure.

The only drawing factor for you seems to be Final Cut Pro. That software is now only available in a package for US$1299. Motion will require a dedicated graphics card (as found in Macbook Pros) to be responsive, so it seems from stories I've seen.

Your real problem will seem to be the price of both a system, and the software you want to add. Macs are competitively priced with similar Wintel boxes and sometimes less expensive. For a great many people, they also do a lot more without having to add extra third party software.

Worse case scenario is you don't like OS X. At least then the machine can still natively run Windows. Currently that is XP SP2, but I expect Vista to be supported too, whenever it gets released.

By the way, there is a lot of truth regarding the superiority of Mac OS X, but like any OS, it too has it's issues. I swear at Windows almost daily at work, and enjoy the mostly smooth working order of my home Mac. My home Windows box is used mainly as a PVR, and occasionally for gaming & two other specialty apps I bought real cheap. The only reason I have that box was because I wanted to play certain games not available for a Mac.

I'm sure you can guess which side of the OS war I'm on. :ninja:

By the way, do you want to say which years the PC was the only game in laptops? Die hard Mac fans would argue that any machine that couldn't run Mac OS, was not an option. No, I"m actually not one of them, yet.

Every one of her 5 room mates had ibooks and every one of them died??? Wow, I was under the impression that the ibooks were pretty stable (and not *pricey*). And sony laptops aren't cheap either by any means. Especially when you got one 4 years ago ;-) ...

And if you think an iMac is unstable... try any computer with windows Millenium Edition. neye:

I think these things happen to all computers, Mac/PC whatever. Basically, if you need something like Final Cut that only runs on Mac then you should consider it since you can run both OS's on the macs now.

I think you are kind of selling yourself with the tone of your post if you ask me. I mean you say that you are skeptical etc etc. but you seem like you know that you will be satisfied with your purchase.

2 years ago I couldn't stand macs, and would avoid them at all cost, and at times i sounded like you. Then I was forced to program on a mac for job/school stuff and I got used to it, much like yourself. Then I had several PC problems and was in a postion to get a new computer. I took a stab in the dark by getting a powerbook and now I don't want to ever go back. So if i can do it, I am sure you can, because I bought a mac when I pretty much hated them.

Good luck.

Macs suck.

Don't get one.

I want a good computer, not to join some church. The most unstable machine I have ever used was a imac and I've seen just as many folks cursing at their locked up macs as winpcs. My daughter used a 500mhz win2000 laptop all through 4 years in the ivy league, and watched every one of her 5 roomates pricey ibooks die before they graduated, while the little sony she had used in HS is still working fine (how she can survive with a 9gb system drive is beyond me), so for all the mac users who have no win experience and just parrot the slander, don't even bother.

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Mmm. Not sure posting prejudicial posts from the off is going help with receiving subjective advice, but I'll try.

I use Win XP at home and Mac OS 10.4 at work. OS X has some niggles, but overall it is a far superior OS in my opinion, with the exception of for gaming purposes. It's cleaner, more streamlined, more user friendly and feels up to date. Little things, such as programs installing in a single folder without spewing files over your whole machine or the way you control apps from the dock do make it easier to live with. If you can use one OS, you can use them all, so switching shouldn't be a problem if you're willing to be patient.

I've had friends who've IBooks have died, or the keyboard's gone, but they were G4s from a few years ago. I don't know if they're any better, but as for desktops, we've got an original 98 IMac going strong, along with two 2001 Power Mac G4s. No problems with our 2006 IMacs either, but then you'd hope not!

xstep said:

By the way, do you want to say which years the PC was the only game in laptops? Die hard Mac fans would argue that any machine that couldn't run Mac OS, was not an option. No, I"m actually not one of them, yet.

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My first machine was a Timex/Sinclair I bought for $49 mail order, my second a Commodore 64 I bought at Toys r Us. Apple twos were just way out of my price range.

There were no mac portables before 1989. Toshiba brought out some really wonderful, and pretty seminal laptops back in the early 80's. I worked in the motion picture artdept and I saw all these guys on location whose computers were always back on their destops. I realized that mobile computing was the only way to really make them useful in that business. In those days believe it or not, computers were seen as rare geek toys. IBM and Macs were around $3000 in a time when gas was still $.99.

When macs first came out they would let you take a weekend test drive, actually giving you the the machine to take home with you. They were very portable compared with what we called IBM compatibles back then. But when i was finally affluent enought to buy a real machine I opted for the toshiba

jdgaines said:

And if you think an iMac is unstable... try any computer with windows Millenium Edition. neye:

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Sorry, you're right, i did use a Millenium machine for a few weeks before i converted it to win 98, and it was even more unstable than that imac running OS9.

I went to the apple store yesterday to get a feel for the MBP. Slick, of course. But I also remembered one of the things I like least about Macs, and one of the odd quasi religious things about them. One Button?

Anybody who works on a win machine uses the right click all the time. That function has been there for decades, and is just so obviously superior. To have to reach over and hit the apple key to get an alt menu is really really lame, and just because...? It's like fundamentalism, where mac is good because it's mac, not because it works better.

It was enough to make me really doubt my desire to switch. I aoppreciate that most of you have not come at me for critisizing the mac ethos. I really have much less problem with the machines than the too cool for school attitude that accompanies the whole world of macs. I guess that's part of why they have persisted as the only partial alternative to the MS monopoly, so thank god for them, but still, One Button? Come on.

I actually can give up on FCP at this point, as I have now have access to the school's full Adrenaline bays. But the one thing that really calls to me is the online security. I've never really been injured by a virus, but there are these terrible sites that make changes to your configuration, I don't know how this crap works, but recently a screen saver one of my kids "won" on a site for a PBS show spawned lots of wierd junk like an audio of Guv Awnode that played when I launched Firefox. I did find some viruses when I ran a scan after that, and had no trouble using sys restore to clean it back up, but other things, like finding QT or Realplayer being made my default player come up from time to time. Are Macs any less susceptible to this sort of cookie abuse, if thats what it is?

I' m not even gonna bother reading the last bit of your post. you can right click with out the need of a second button, you just need to ask how. this is where your moral superiority is gettin in the way of actually learning about machine. Like you said anybody who uses a windows machine uses the right click, this is not a windows machin now is it. the sooner you stop thinking windows and learn OS X the better off you will be. But I guess it never occured to you that maybe the functions of a right click can be had without the physical button in OS X.

There are Apps that will allow you to add the right click to the touch pad. On my iBook I just simply touch and hold for the right click. Don't let an imagined shortcomming sidetrack you.

You are obviously to biased to bother, so just go buy a nice Sony Vaio and be happy with Windows.

On a side note, comming in with an attitude is not what I would call "level headed", no matter what you think. As the old saying goes, you can catch more flies with Honey....

but there are these terrible sites that make changes to your configuration. Are Macs any less susceptible to this sort of cookie abuse, if thats what it is?

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This is spyware and Macs are 99.99% immune. Internet Explorer is so full of holes, all sorts can get through.

By the way, my Mac has more buttons than my PC, along with a 360 degree trackwheel: :spook:

attitudes

baggss said:

You are obviously to[o] biased to bother, so just go buy a nice Sony Vaio and be happy with Windows.

On a side note, comming in with an attitude is not what I would call "level headed", no matter what you think. As the old saying goes, you can catch more flies with Honey....

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I don't think I'm all that biased, and I don't find a world of mac haters in the win world, you don't see win users with steve job dart boards, it's just not a part of any culture but this one. Sorry but that's a fact.

I said I like macs, why would I be thinking of buying one if I didn't? It's jsut this ethos that, as I said, bothers me the most. If you have a solution to the one button problem that you find superior, then please fill me in.

All the attitude in my posts has been in anticipation of the hostility I find around this issue. I think Tiger is wonderful and have no doubt that leopard will be better. I think the Apple corp culture is among the best in the world, I think the styling and engineering are superior. Most of these opinions have appeared in my previous posts. Where's the bias?

The one button thing is wierd, admit it. Having to install a separate app so that you can hold down the button to access alt menus in a much slower process, and while a solution, not a superior one.

I suspect they retain the single button because ideologs like some of you would rebel if they actually improved the machine in a way that made it resemble your imagined nemisis. Grow up.

It was the Macbook pro I was playing with. Does it have all those buttons? Can you decribe what a 360 deg track wheel is.

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Simple... it is the actual ball/sphere in the middle of the mouse (picture above by Alexis) that allows you scroll 360 deg. up/down/left/right/diag. etc.... It's fantastic.

about the button thing:

1.) First of all there is a way to use the trackpad as a right clicking device using different finger motion combinations, not sure how but i know it can be done.

2.) Hook up any usb mouse and you automatically have right clicking which = the same functionality as a PC

3.) About right clicking on a laptop. I assume you are going to say that you aren't going to use a mouse with your laptop because that would defeat your arguement. So lets do this. Assume you are sitting at the home keys with your fingers.

On a PC, to left click you must reach across the mouse the far left side of the trackpad/button duo to left click, assuming you are right handed. I would say most people use left click more than right click. If you want to right click, yes you are right it is a little bit easier to click the one button closest to your right hand.

Keep in mind though your left hand is always on the keyboard. So you are moving back and forth between keyboard and mouse with your right hand before ever being able to type after using the trackpad/button duo. If you just one of your fingers from your left hand down to the control button then you would never have to move your right hand any farther than the right mouse click button on your windows laptop because you can control left and right click with another button instead of having to switch your finger positions.

As a used to be hardcore windows user, this was confusing at first, but now it is so much more intuitive and much much ... faster. And I am a keyboard junkie so anythign to keep my hands closer is better for me.