Gun lovers

todd51 · Oct 4, 2006

Any gun lovers in here? My dad has turned me into one. I currently own a 12 gauge pump-action Remington 870 (best home defense weapon IMO) and a 6.5-inch, 8 shot, DA .357 Taurus Revolver.

Just bored and wanted something to talk about.

Next on my list will probably be a nice .22 rifle just for plinkin around.

Liam · Oct 4, 2006

I find it astonishing that guns are legally allowed to be owned by anyone and everyone in the US. I'd hate to live there personally with all them flying around.

todd51 · Oct 4, 2006

Where are you from and what is your countries policies on gun ownership?

I'm just curious, I live in Illinois so we dont' have a "carry conceal" permit that is allowed like other states. We also have to have a special card that allows us to purchase or even use guns.

Benjamindaines · Oct 4, 2006

todd51 said:
Where are you from and what is your countries policies on gun ownership?

Well, in the UK every gun must be registered and you have to get a permit to buy one. Which I think is much better than the way the US does it, who needs thugs getting guns and blowing the brains out of their schoolmates.

dan828 · Oct 4, 2006

Liam said:
I find it astonishing that guns are legally allowed to be owned by anyone and everyone in the US. I'd hate to live there personally with all them flying around.

Not anyone and everyone is allowed to have guns in the US. Certain types of guns are also not for sale or are sold with restrictions. Hunting weapons can be purchased fairly easily, but most guns (here in California anyways) require a gun safety test, a background check (prevents sales to felons, the mentally unstable, anyone with a restraining order, and those convicted of violent misdemeanors), and a waiting period of several days. Fully automatic weapons have been banned since the 1920s, and anything of the "assault weapon" variety is also banned by federal law. Certain types of ammo are also banned or have been taxed out of existence. Here in California it's also illegal for felons to own or wear bullet-proof vests. Concealed carry of firearms is always illegal without a permit, and availability of those varies from place to place. Also, I don't think that kids under 18 are allowed to buy guns of any sort.

Not that I think that any of that is a bad idea, but almost all crimes committed with firearms are done so with weapons that were not acquired legally.

Frankly, the laws in Italy (when I lived their a few years ago) were much less restrictive than they are in the US.

What it boils down to though, is an historical tradition of the "right to keep and bear arms", which was placed in our constitution specifically because of abuses by the British Imperial government and the fact the rebellion against British authority would have failed had the populace not had private ownership of firearms. It comes down to the idea that the founders of the government wanted the citizenry to be able challenge the government if need be. A government with a monopoly on violence is pretty hard to get rid of. Kind of a moot point now as the firepower of US government far outstrips what a private citizen or group of citizens could ever acquire.

Benjamindaines · Oct 4, 2006

dan828 said:
What it boils down to though, is an historical tradition of the "right to keep and bear arms"

Don't take this the wrong way, but I find it ironic that the US works so hard to preserve this tradition but they have destroyed many traditions in other countries with all their commercial holidays.

mraya · Oct 4, 2006

Isn't the title of the thread "Gun Lovers"? Maybe we can open a different thread to complain about them and the policies that rule their use, but this one was created for a different reason.

NanoBite · Oct 4, 2006

mraya said:
Isn't the title of the thread "Gun Lovers"? Maybe we can open a different thread to complain about the and the policies that rule their use, but this one was created for a different reason.

Well said, mraya....BTW I can't love a thing made from metal...

MMMII · Oct 4, 2006

Well, I am the proud owner of a Ruger P89 9mm with a Hogue grip. I happen to live in Las Vegas, NV.

Mostly for home/family protection, but I love to go to range and practice!

sursuciofla · Oct 4, 2006

Anybody in any country can get a gun illegally. Can't just single out the U.S. on that one. You must have gotten misinformation which seems to be pretty prevalant when it comes to the U.S. I call it Spinner News. I like it that honest people are able to get a gun here to protect themselves against crooks who think they have an easy target. In the States you have a background check done and you have to wait two weeks I believe to actually have it in hand plus it must be registered. Just so it isn't a spur of the moment, "Oh let's go kill tonight".

To get back to gun ownership...I don't own one but I plan to get one sooner or later.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people!"

peter_hutson · Oct 4, 2006

I'm in UK, it's quite difficult to "legally" own a gun. Many weapons are outlawed, including pistols. Shotguns can still be obtained for recreational purposes, though in the case of automatics thay are limited to two in the tube and one in the spout.

To a Brit, the US system does seem rather liberal. But, I think many Brits condem the US system without much thought. From what I've read the country is awash with firearms now, hence any restrictions will only reduce the ability of law abiding people to own guns. Gun control in the UK has completely failed, you only need to look at the number of firearms offences taking place to see that our strict system has failed to stop weapons getting into the hands of the nut jobs.

Back on topic, I own a 686 beretta, lovely gun. Alas I get very little time to shoot anymore. Think I'll be selling it soon and giving up.

mac-photo · Oct 5, 2006

dan828 said:
Not anyone and everyone is allowed to have guns in the US. Certain types of guns are also not for sale or are sold with restrictions. Hunting weapons can be purchased fairly easily, but most guns (here in California anyways) require a gun safety test, a background check (prevents sales to felons, the mentally unstable, anyone with a restraining order, and those convicted of violent misdemeanors), and a waiting period of several days. Fully automatic weapons have been banned since the 1920s, and anything of the "assault weapon" variety is also banned by federal law. Certain types of ammo are also banned or have been taxed out of existence. Here in California it's also illegal for felons to own or wear bullet-proof vests. Concealed carry of firearms is always illegal without a permit, and availability of those varies from place to place. Also, I don't think that kids under 18 are allowed to buy guns of any sort.

Not that I think that any of that is a bad idea, but almost all crimes committed with firearms are done so with weapons that were not acquired legally.

Frankly, the laws in Italy (when I lived their a few years ago) were much less restrictive than they are in the US.

What it boils down to though, is an historical tradition of the "right to keep and bear arms", which was placed in our constitution specifically because of abuses by the British Imperial government and the fact the rebellion against British authority would have failed had the populace not had private ownership of firearms. It comes down to the idea that the founders of the government wanted the citizenry to be able challenge the government if need be. A government with a monopoly on violence is pretty hard to get rid of. Kind of a moot point now as the firepower of US government far outstrips what a private citizen or group of citizens could ever acquire.

thanks for that, so i did not have to write a long post. I hate how so many people think that the right to bear arms was originally for hunting or whatever nonsense they believe, and that now in these days that law is obsolete because we dont have to hunt to eat.

and to re-enforce what you said, do criminals buy guns legally? Heck no, they buy them on the street, and gun laws have effect on that. And what do criminals fear most? No not jail time (money can get them out of that,) no not police (police are the first targets they shoot,) they fear getting shot by citizens who are carrying concealed. and yes there is plenty of data to back this up.

ShillAT · Oct 5, 2006

I just think that there's a certain point where things start to get too far. Hunting? Sure! Handguns? Sure! Millitary grade rifles.....eh? There is no use for millitary grade rifles, automatic or otherwise, for civilians in this country. It is completely absurd. In hunting, you usually want to bring back something. You don't want a completely mangled carcass. The only case you would ever need one is when you might be facing more than a couple of attackers, say more than four. In 2004, all robberies with four or more assailants counted for about 5.1 percent of all robberies. (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cvus/number_of808.htm). Property crimes inside the home accounted for 1% (if the property was a car) or 9.1 percent of crimes in the US in 2004. (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cvus/distance_from_home836.htm) I assumed that the only place you would have heavy duty weapon would be in your home. so i looked up the stats for home robberies.

I just think we need a modicum of common sense when it comes to which weapons and accessories we should be allowed to own. Flash suppressors? High capacity clips? Fully automatic guns? come on, get real.

The only other limits on the physical nature of the guns would be that there has to be easier ways to limit their use. I'm talking about ways to make sure that your kids, or a criminal, can't use your gun. Maybe not computer chips (not reliable, but if they were made by apple.....

), but a keyed lock which would be legal to have unlocked when it's carried on the person. At home or otherwise, it has to be locked. like that, little joey can't accidentally blow his brains out because his daddy has left the .357 lying out again.

peter_hutson · Oct 5, 2006

Out of interest what are the storage regs in the US regarding guns? Are you in deep trouble if your firerarm is stolen becuase you did not properly store it? In the UK shotguns must be stored in a locked cabinets. If they are not properly stored then your **** is seriously on the line if something happens, even if it's without your consent.

I'm a bit vague on thelaw regarding rifles, but I think they should also be stored in a gun safe, plus the ammunition must be in a separate safe.

the_New_guy · Oct 5, 2006

hey,
i am a huge fan.

have

remington 700
feirwakbau P70

i have also shot in many competitions,
when i was just 14, i was ranked 24 all india under 21.

As for legality, knifes are legal, cars probable kill more people than guns. and if you want you can kill someone with ur bare hands

cjay · Oct 5, 2006

All I can think of when I hear "the right to bear arms" is yes, you do, but you've paid for that with a lot of blood.

PapaNoHair · Oct 5, 2006

Benjamindaines said:
Well, in the UK every gun must be registered and you have to get a permit to buy one. Which I think is much better than the way the US does it, who needs thugs getting guns and blowing the brains out of their schoolmates.

Actually there is another side to that: there is a man down the street from me that was robbed 5 times in a row. He got tired of it and the next time thieves came into his store to rob him (they had guns) he pulled out his own, new gun and shot one dead and wounded the other. That was a year ago and he has not been robbed since. We do have crime, of course, but there are a lot more incidents similar to the one above where a gun preserved lives. In fact, in one of our school shootings it was stopped by a principal who ran to his car, got his gun and stopped the rampage before anyone else could get hurt.

digital john · Oct 5, 2006

Benjamindaines said:
Well, in the UK every gun must be registered and you have to get a permit to buy one. Which I think is much better than the way the US does it, who needs thugs getting guns and blowing the brains out of their schoolmates.

Same with the U.S.

Aslain · Oct 5, 2006

digital john said:
Same with the U.S.

Yes, and I would also like to add that if someone intends to purchase or obtain a gun for criminal use, they are not going to be likely to apply for a permit. As for the school shootings, gun ownership was more widespread in the U.S. in the 1800's, but there weren't any children shooting up their high schools back then. There are obviously some other issues at work there.

RiDE · Oct 5, 2006

dan828 said:
Not anyone and everyone is allowed to have guns in the US. Certain types of guns are also not for sale or are sold with restrictions. Hunting weapons can be purchased fairly easily, but most guns (here in California anyways) require a gun safety test, a background check (prevents sales to felons, the mentally unstable, anyone with a restraining order, and those convicted of violent misdemeanors), and a waiting period of several days. Fully automatic weapons have been banned since the 1920s, and anything of the "assault weapon" variety is also banned by federal law. Certain types of ammo are also banned or have been taxed out of existence. Here in California it's also illegal for felons to own or wear bullet-proof vests. Concealed carry of firearms is always illegal without a permit, and availability of those varies from place to place. Also, I don't think that kids under 18 are allowed to buy guns of any sort.

Not that I think that any of that is a bad idea, but almost all crimes committed with firearms are done so with weapons that were not acquired legally.

Frankly, the laws in Italy (when I lived their a few years ago) were much less restrictive than they are in the US.

What it boils down to though, is an historical tradition of the "right to keep and bear arms", which was placed in our constitution specifically because of abuses by the British Imperial government and the fact the rebellion against British authority would have failed had the populace not had private ownership of firearms. It comes down to the idea that the founders of the government wanted the citizenry to be able challenge the government if need be. A government with a monopoly on violence is pretty hard to get rid of. Kind of a moot point now as the firepower of US government far outstrips what a private citizen or group of citizens could ever acquire.

Fantastic post!!!!

Gun lovers

todd51

Guest

Liam

todd51

Guest

Benjamindaines

dan828

Benjamindaines

mraya

NanoBite

MMMII

sursuciofla

Guest

peter_hutson

mac-photo

ShillAT

peter_hutson

the_New_guy

cjay

PapaNoHair

digital john

Aslain

RiDE

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