The chicken or the egg?

I was wondering who came first - Microsoft or Apple, Bill Gates or the founder of Apple/Mac? I can't find anything on the web about this. I'm guessing Mac came out way before any of MS's OSs did,`cos I think I've heard of Macintosh and Apple in the early or mid 70s.

I've never heard of Windows or Microsoft or anything by them until 1999,`cos no one ever told me about the internet or home computers until that year. I did see on the web that Bill Gates started his first operating system as MSDOS back in the late 70s, (1978) but that was all I could find about him and MS, and so far nothing about Apple/Mac.

Here's a funny thing - the pastor that use to preach at our church (who now lives in another state) was lecturing in 1996 or 1997 about the "Super Information Highway". I know now what he was referring to - the internet. Well here I was, sitting in the chapel and having no clue as to what he was even talking about.

All I could figure out was that he was saying that the government was remodeling all the interstates and highways with new and better signs to help us all know better than ever where we are at and how to get to wherever while we're traveling. lol Yeah, I was an extreme late bloomer when it came to home computers and the internet.

I guess I should've titled this the "Worm or the Apple"? lol

Well anyway, I was wondering who came first, or if there are any links that will tell the complete story in detail. Thanks!

Hmmmz... interesting topic.

Somewhere along the line i heard that Steve Jobs and Bill Gates worked together at somepoint in the garage when 3.1 was being produced. but i feel im completley wrong and would like to know who come first

Steve Wozniak's Apple I appeared in 1976. It sold for $666.66, according to the linked site, which probably gave Bill Gates his ideas for the future.

apple-founded April 1, 1976
microsoft-Founded November 26, 1976

as far as the them working together, i swear ive heard the same thing, but the couple of resources i checked real quick didnt mention that. but im almost positie they worked together at some point before either company was created. idk if it was necessarily jobs who worked with him, but i think one of the three apple founders worked with gates.

Gates worked for Apple in the beginning. He was secretly setting up his own company on the side (He had pitched MS-DOS while still an employee of apple) and left apple afterwards.

I suggest watching Pirates of Silicon Valley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Computer
http://www.apple-history.com/?page=history&section=h1


As far as I know, Microsoft was one of the biggest developers for the apple II and the original mac, they wrote microsoft basic for mac.

At some point apple gave microsoft a license for parts the mac gui and on that basis microsoft developed windows 1.0. Through some legal loopholes and wrangling, apple was basically forced to ignore microsofts blatant copying of crucial elements of the mac ui.

It's kind of hard to explain...I've read numerous biographys and Pirates of Silicon Valley

But, Apple starting building their computers and putting them on the market before Microsoft. Microsoft didn't neccessarily 'write' MSDOS either, they bought it from Tim Paterson because Gates told IBM they had an OS but they didn't necessarily...But Paul Allen knew a guy that was willing to sell his OS and it happend. The first MSDOS was released as PCDOS in 1981. So thats when Microsoft officially launched.

As for Apple, all the way up to Lisa, Woz wrote Apple DOS and thats what their systems ran.

Then Apple heard about the Xerox Palo Alto, a fully functional GUI OS. So Steve and a group of programmers got to interview the Palo Alto programmers to find out whats beneath the system, etc. Thus, the Lisa was introduced(named after his daughter, who's mother he didn't marry). The Lisa prices were too high, so thats when the holy Mac was in development. Just like Microsoft they got ahold of a prototype system. Which they copied.

So in the long run, Macs have ALWAYS been ahead. Just like microsoft now, they're copying OSX interfaces with widgets, and some more stuff I can't think of.

References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_jobs#Personal_life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS#History

Wow, quite a bit of info on this. Way more than I knew about. I couldn't find anything earlier than 1978 for Bill and his team on my own. I was thinking Apple/Mac came in 1975, but I was one year off.

I've heard that the internet was first created in 1974, but don't know if that's true or not, that mostly the military used it back then. I've also heard that Apple's old operating system "LISA" stood for Local Integrated Software Architecture. I wonder if his daughter was born first, or the OS?

And I never knew Bill and his team had ever secretly done anything while working for Apple, or being pirates for that matter - but I should have known better,`cos many people want power, money and control. They say it's the "American way" - Corporate America's way. D'oh!

Pirates of Silicon Valley is great and if its close to the facts then its even better.
It shows some of the best and worse business decisions ever made.

Whoever was first, Apples are still better.

I just now saw the Pirates of Silicon Valley DVD online, that it was made in 1999 - starring the guy who played the blonde kid on the 80s movie The Breakfast Club, (Anthony Michael Hall). I'm gonna see if I can rent it tonight or hopefully no later than the 24th. I think it'll be very interesting to watch.

I like vintage things, such as cameras and hi-fi home audio. I'd also like to get the 1987 Mac II, for instance. Even if it's slow as a turtle, I'd still like to own one. Know where I can get an old Apple?

The Steve Jobs actor was in ER.

Oh, okay.
I never watch ER, so I don't know this guy, or that he played Steve Jobs in POSV.

trpnmonkey41 said:

I suggest watching Pirates of Silicon Valley

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Seconded. It was kind of cheesy and I'm not sure everything was legit but it was good nonetheless.

It was a good movie, but I have not seen it in such a long time that I have kinda forgot most of the movie. I need to watch it again since I haven't seen it since like, middle school age. History of Apple and Microsoft is a very interesting thing, and If I have the ability to write a paper in college about anything I want to write about I will probably write it about this topic.

If it is a cheesy movie, I won't mind,`cos it's based on a true story. I know many things in the movie will be "He said, she said". So we aren't really going to know the real truth about everything that went on at Apple between Jobs/Woz/Raskin and Gates. And if the movie is cheesy, that's probably`cos of the way some people acted and dressed in those days. But if the movie can be found in my town, I'll watch it on the 24th.

DCraver said:

It was kind of cheesy and I'm not sure everything was legit but it was good nonetheless.

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The book On the Edge: the Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore put things into perspective:

Between 1976 and 1994, Commodore had astounding success in the nascent personal computer business. Amid the chaos and infighting, Commodore was able to achieve some remarkable industry firsts. They were the first major company to show a personal computer, even before Apple and Radio Shack. They sold a million computers before anyone else. No single computer has sold more than the Commodore 64. The first true multimedia computer, the Amiga, came from Commodore. Yet with all these milestones, Commodore receives almost no credit as a pioneer.

Commodore was one of the only companies with the ability to make silicon, and the results were obvious. they had more creativity, more colour, and more character than the competition. While Apple and IBM charged exorbitant prices, Commodore was able to reach the masses with affordable computers while remaining profitable.

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The history of early computers has tended to focus on Microsoft, IBM, and Apple, snubbing contributions made by Commodore. "There is a lot of revisionism going on and I don't think it's fair," says Commodore 64 designer Robert Yannes. "People wanted to ignore Commodore."

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Turner Network Television produced a movie called Pirates of Silicon Valley (1999), based on a more credible book, Fire in the Valley, by Paul Freiberger & Michael Swaine. Regrettably, the producers ignored much of the book and focused on Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and IBM.

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When writers are not ignoring Commodore, they often get their facts wrong. In The Silicon Boys and Their Valley of Dreams[, David Kaplan describes the Apple IPO in 1980 and then adds, "But Apple soon bred competition. Radio Shack and Commodore and even Atari, among others, started selling their own personal computers." In truth, Commodore and Radio Shack began selling personal computers in 1977, and Atari followed in 1979.
This rosy picture of Apple starting the microcomputer industry could not be further from the truth. Apple had a very slow start and eventually climbed to first place sometime in the early 1980's, only to lose their lead to Commodore once again, In the very earliest days, Commodore was pioneering the consumer microcomputer industry.

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I would recommend 'On The Edge' as a fascinating and absorbing insight into the pioneering beginnings of the home computer industry when real innovation took place every day, and there was real choice of both hardware and operating systems. It does look as if Mac OS is becoming a real challenge to Windows, perhaps this will lead to a revival of the pioneering spirit and more choice for users.

I just realized that the first computer i ever layed my hands on is an Apple, way back in 1984, we played Lode Runner, Pac Man, and Karateka.

How would i know what apple is it, if it is back in 1984-1985.

Kulokoy said:

I just realized that the first computer i ever layed my hands on is an Apple, way back in 1984, we played Lode Runner, Pac Man, and Karateka.

How would i know what apple is it, if it is back in 1984-1985.

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I may be wrong, but I've been reading a little about the History of Apple, and I thought it said that Apple introduced the Mac in 1984. I've also read that the Apple II came out in 1987. So now I'm wondering were there 2 OSs... Apple and Mac, in 1987? I've not been able to find out anywhere on the web about what Apple model you had back in 1984. Was it running the Apple OS or the Mac OS?

When the first Macintosh came out, it came with the GUI interface (Mac OS 1.0). The Apple ][ was running a DOS like OS.

Macropolis said:

I've also read that the Apple II came out in 1987.

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The Apple II was released in 1977 - the same year that Commodore released the PET, and Radio Shack the TRS-80. Byte magazine dubbed them the 1977 Trinity.

"The Apple II did little to stand apart from other computers. It lacked lower case characters, which made it unsuitable for word processing, one of the major uses of a computer. Furthermore. the Apple II had no cursor keys. Users were required to hold down the control key with a letter combination to move the cursor, such as Esc-D.
Spectators who turned on the Apple II saw a screen full of random alphabetic characters and symbols, and possibly some coloured blocks. Users had to press a reset key in the upper right hand side of the keyboard to get things started. After this, an asterix would appear in the bottom left-hand corner of the screen, indicating the computer was in monitor mode. To get into Apple-Basic, the user had to press Ctrl-B, which would bring up a different prompt indicating BASIC was ready. Compared to the PET, it was not user-friendly."

Amazing how far the Mac has come to the beautiful OS which is OS X.

Interestingly, in 1976 Commodore had approached Apple to buy the Apple I as the basis for the Commodore PET. The person negotiating on behalf of Apple was Steve Jobs. Wozniak and Jobs were willing to sell, as long as the price was right - $100,000, but Commodore wouldn't pay it. Lucky Apple ;-)