time machine app issue

was going to backup my MBP.....first time done on MBP purchased late 2017

what a mess I have created!!

Had 320gb drive which had an old backup of MBA which is not longer around.
I plugged drive into MBP…initiated time machine app and designated that drive as backup drive.
Nothing seemed to be happening…I did notice that there would not be enough room to do this backup drive
…so while Time machine was still open (and if running I could not tell) I deleted the old backup to clear space on the drive.

Nothing happened..no backup done to backup drive.
So ejected drive and began again.

I started time machine app and figure I would wait for the prompt to copy to backup drive.
But my desktop image and folder/files disappeared and grey screen with image(s) of my finder folder, apps folder with time machine highlighted and options to cancel or restore.
There seemed to be several folders tucked in behind this one. Now this made me uneasy.

I could not do snap picture so had to take with iphone. when I clicked cancel my desktop and all files on it showed up again.

Ooh ooh I have done something now!!!
So I shut down MBP hoping it would fix the glich.
NOPE…still there. See image.

What on earth have I done?

I did a file info on 320gb drive and it showed available 274.46 out of 319.73 capacity...seems to be something on the drive....should I format it and try again?

while waiting...I thought I would put back the old folder of backups for my MBA that I had trashed back on to the 320gb drive.
and to my surprise there was a folder within that backup folder for my MPB...tho it said it was in progress! see attachment of screen shot
So glad I did not delete that MBA backup folder from trash.
so now what do I do?

The picture is of Time Machine when it is in the restore or examine mode. You get there by clicking on the Time Machine icon on the Dock. You get out of it by clicking on the Cancel button. You should be ok just clicking Cancel. That cancels a RESTORE, not a backup, btw.

On the rest of the issue. TM files should NEVER, EVER be deleted by Finder. TM doesn't store files normally, so TM has to handle the deletions within itself. Doing so has probably upset the backups. Here is how TM works:

Overall, on the backup drive, there is a folder named 'backups.backupdb' and if you use Finder to look in that folder you will find the name of the machines being backed up to that folder. In your case, the old MBA should be there, plus your new machine. Each of those folder has in it more folders with date/time of the backup, in the format, "YYYY-MM-DD-hhmmss.' And in each of those folders are the links to the drive, files and folders of previous backups that have not changed, plus files and folders that did change and are stored in that backup. Note that although each of those lower folder LOOKS like it has files, most of them are not really the file, but a special link to the unchanged file in a previous backup, with some files perhaps going all the way back to the original backup that was made. If one were to delete a backup that was mostly links, then the chain of links to the real files would be broken and the integrity of the entire backup database would be compromised. Ditto for unplugging the backup drive in the middle of a backup.

So, your mistakes were:

I deleted the old backup to clear space on the drive.

Click to expand...

Don't use Finder to do anything with Time Machine.

So ejected drive and began again.

Click to expand...

I'm going to assume you actually did eject it and not just unplugged it because that is just slightly worse than using Finder, in that IF the drive was being written to, you can completely trash the drive. If it was ejected, then all should be ok, but I'm surprised that it was allowed to be ejected if TM was busy doing a backup. There should have been a warning about that.

So I shut down MBP hoping it would fix the glich.

Click to expand...

Not a good idea, generally. I'll assume the shutdown was normal and not a power off shutdown. Again, if TM was busy, or you had activity in the system, you should have gotten a warning message about it.

I thought I would put back the old folder of backups for my MBA that I had trashed back on to the 320gb drive.

Click to expand...

Once deleted, putting them back doesn't fix the TM backup. TM is NOT a normal folder, with normal files. Mucking about with it in Finder is a definite no-no.

So, what to do?

Disconnect the external drive. Reboot. It should be ok. Nothing you did should have harmed your internal boot drive. TM is probably still enabled, unless you went to Sys Prefs and disabled it.

So, disable TM through Sys Prefs and then reattach the external. Assuming the drive is now thoroughly messed up, the best option is to erase it and start over. So do that, then go to Sys Prefs and point TM to it again as a new drive and let it run. You can know that TM is running because on the top bar the TM icon changes. It's very subtle but the inactive icon has a circle with ONE arrow on it, but when TM is running a second arrowhead appears on the circle. You can also click on the icon on the top bar (not the Dock) to see where the backup is going, when the last was done, to start an immediate backup and to enter the TM system.

The TM icon on the Dock is to get TM going, the display you posted is the environment of TM. The folders stacked represent the backups in history, plus there is a bar on the right side showing weeks and months going back. To restore, you select the backup from the side bar, or with the up/down arrows beside the finder display, select the file and then click "restore" to start the restoration. Cancel cancels the restore and returns you to normal operations.

many thanks jake
wow your reply was just about as long as my post! lol lol lol
I printed this post and will reread it several times to fully understand. hopefully I can fix this.

otherwise....since I do not really need the backups from my old MBA...I can just reformat the drive and do a new time machine backup of MBP.
can't see where that would hurt.

Nope, no problem doing that, it's a good solution.

I hope so. this forum has provided me with lots of good info and many times I go back and check the replies.
I only hope that all the posts/replies will be able to be transferred to the new site.
would be a shame to loose all of that knowledge.

thank you, thank you.....
well it is noon and i think I've done a successful backup job. just want to understand bit more what actually happens.

I have two folders on backup drive one for MBP and one for MBA with a few folders within.
my backups were set to automatic...is that why I have 4 files (9:49,10:51 and 11:29) within the MPB folder?
AND when backup drive in future and runs out of space, the oldest file is cleared out...correct?....so then the first one to go would be the one at 9:49 correct?
I changed it to manual backup. so backup will occur when I choose. is that logical?

for the old MBA backup...I will not ever use that again. Since these folders will never be used, can be erased to make room on backup drive?
how do I do that through TM?

Good job, Lori. The one comment I have is that I am surprised that the MBA stuff is there, if you formatted the drive before reusing it. If you didn't reformat it, then it makes sense for that old set of backups to be there.

Automatic backup means that TM runs every hour to backup the files changed since the last backup. After a week, TM prunes those backups to one per day, then later to one per week. When the drive is full, TM will then prune the oldest backup, which at that point may or may not be the 9:49, as there is no way right now to know if that will be the one TM keeps for the weekly backup between now and then.

As for manual backup, that's acceptable as long as you remember to execute it on a regular schedule. TM itself doesn't have a lot of options (on or off) but there are third party products that give you more flexibility. TimeMachineEditor is what I use. I have my backups set to run daily at noon and midnight. To make TME work, you turn TM off, then turn on TME and set the interval you want for it. Then just forget it. It just runs in the background, never bothering you.

I did not opt to format the backup drive so still had the backups for MBA. and of course now I have first backup of MBP.

good to know about how TM prunes files.

ah. so TM auto backup does it every hour. I am only a home user and don't need all those backups.
looked into TME you mention.
what happens in using TME....if I don't have backup drive connect to MBP...do the files backup to internal SSD drive?

tho not backups not a big issue for me as I keep a lot of my data on other external drives.
tho I will put note on MBP to do backup schedule.

TME is not in App Store. I gave the link to the developer.

Also, I think TM will take the snapshot to the boot drive. Then the next time it finds the backup drive when it runs the snapshot(s) will be moved to the backup drive.

Here's the most recent info on where Time Machine stores the backups if your backup drive isn't available.

Thnx slydude
Excellent link for understanding more about time machine

You're welcome. Time Machine is a simple program to use but there's still a lot of room for confusion about how it works.

I manually do time machine backups so don’t have to be concerned about backups sent to my hard drive when external one not connected... at least that is how I understand it.

Backups in general...
iCloud won’t back up contacts (+other folders) if there already a folder there , and I do have iCloud contacts folder... tho it is incorrect, I checked on iCloud.com. Not sure how to get correct version of contacts in iCloud.. or mayb it does not matter.

iTunes is supposed to deal with contacts but when I did an iTunes backup... never have done one before... I could not find it. Discovered it is ~library, however my Mac says it’s not there. If I pressed option and 4 .. a library shows. Don’t know if that is the same location. And when I did find the correct folder it was unreadable and just a bunch of characters.

Time machine works great at most all other things but not contacts.

Is there any way to get a readable copy of contacts to stash away for safe keeping.

I had Been having big issues with all my devices having different versions of content.
Fixed now with help of Apple support.

Is there any way to get a readable copy of contacts to stash away for safe keeping.

Click to expand...

Yes, two ways:

1. Open your contacts app. Click on "File", then click on "Export". Select "Export vCard". The vCard file can then be imported back to contacts in case you lose them.

2. Open your contacts app. Click on "File", then click on "Export to PDF". The PDF can not import to contacts but you can always copy the contacts back manually.

I recommend backing up using both methods above.

yes thanks I was able to get to export the vcard of my contacts but could not read it! so I deleted it. now I will go back and export again and then try to export file to PDF....

as far as using both methods of backups..have done time machine successfully and happy with resulting files on external drive.
but with iTunes...not sure even tho I understand what all it encompasses and where to find the actual files on my MBP.
I know that there are differences between the two methods of backups.

and not even going to try to understand iCloud.....I need to have a course in iCloud....hmmmm?
don't know how the outdated contacts got there in the first place.
iCloud will not update anything already there.
so how can I even get the correct contacts there in the first place.....and then what good are the contacts in iCloud if they are not updated as new or edited entries are done.

sorry for the grumbling....just a bit frustrated with iCloud.
I guess as long as I have correct contacts on iPhone, iPad and MBP...I will just forget about iCloud.