GFCI Outlets & Safety

pigoo3 said:

Whenever I see posts in this thread...I always think of the warning..."Don't use a hair dryer near a bathtub someone is taking a bath in!"

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Nick - LOL! Our house was built in the early 70s, and GFCI were either not around then or required at the time in areas where a liquid and electrical device could come in contact, i.e. mainly in the kitchen and bathrooms - we remodeled both rooms (actually 2 bathrooms + kitchen) about 10 years ago and all of the outlets were replaced w/ GFCIs like the one below - plus our hair dryer cord (w/ its own built-in 'circuit breaker') does not extend to the bathtub, so I'd have to get one w/ a longer cord -

BUT, in our den, there is a sink right next a standard outlet - I make our morning coffee there but never have the sink filled while the coffee maker or the coffee grinder are in use - so a 'grandfathered' clause although I've never checked the local electrical codes and certainly could have the outlet easily replaced - just took the second pic below showing the relationship of the two. Dave
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RadDave said:

Our house was built in the early 70s, and GFCI were either not around then or required at the time in areas where a liquid and electrical device could come in contact, i.e. mainly in the kitchen and bathrooms - we remodeled both rooms (actually 2 bathrooms + kitchen) about 10 years ago and all of the outlets were replaced w/ GFCIs like the one below - plus our air dryer cord (w/ its own built-in 'circuit breaker') does not extend to the bathtub, so I'd have to get one w/ a longer cord -

BUT, in our den, there is a sink right next a standard outlet - I make our morning coffee there but never have the sink filled while the coffee maker or the coffee grinder are in use - so a 'grandfathered' clause although I've never checked the local electrical codes and certainly could have the outlet easily replaced - just took the second pic below showing the relationship of the two. Dave
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Thanks Dave for mentioning the GFCI outlets. Very familiar with them! Yes...in more modern homes (or maybe not even that modern anymore)...GFCI outlets should at least be in the kitchen & bathrooms. Which of course should make my dangerous analogy of "hair dryer + person in bathtub" outdated!

I believe that there are also "whole-house" GFCI's that can be installed in a home's electrical panel.

- Nick

p.s. Not exactly an experiment I would like to be part of. But (being a curious person)...I still wonder if a hair dryer is dropped into a bathtub full of water with a person in it...and the hair dryer is plugged into an operational GFCI outlet...does the person in the tub feel zero-shock...or do they still get a little bit of a zapp before the GFCI outlet kicks in??

pigoo3 said:

Thanks Dave for mentioning the GFCI outlets. Very familiar with them! Yes...in more modern homes (or maybe not even that modern anymore)...GFCI outlets should at least be in the kitchen & bathrooms. Which of course should make my dangerous analogy of "hair dryer + person in bathtub" outdated!

I believe that there are also "whole-house" GFCI's that can be installed in a home's electrical panel.

- Nick

p.s. Not exactly an experiment I would like to be part of. But (being a curious person)...I still wonder if a hair dryer is dropped into a bathtub full of water with a person in it...and the hair dryer is plugged into an operational GFCI outlet...does the person in the tub feel zero-shock...or do they still get a little bit of a zapp before the GFCI outlet kicks in??

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Well, you're probably familiar the SawStop Tablesaws w/ the 'blade stopping' technology - a hot dog is used in every video that I've seen, like the one below - you would think that one of the company's CEOs might use his finger! ;D Dave

GCFI's open in milliseconds with only milliamps in the tripping circuit, so the individual most likely will feel nothing. But I'm not testing that theory, either.

MacInWin said:

GCFI's open in milliseconds with only milliamps in the tripping circuit, so the individual most likely will feel nothing. But I'm not testing that theory, either.

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Exactly Jake. In theory all is supposed to be good (and I'm also 99% sure it is). But I still don't want to be the one in the tub!

- Nick

RadDave said:

Well, you're probably familiar the SawStop Tablesaws w/ the 'blade stopping' technology - a hot dog is used in every video that I've seen, like the one below - you would think that one of the company's CEOs might use his finger! ;D Dave

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Thanks for that Dave. I am a fairly avid wood worker...but have not heard of this. Very interesting. I'm usually very very safe around my power tools...and rarely remove any safety guards (but have done it).

Accidents certainly can happen. And I've bumped into other woodworkers who have the "stubby-fingers" to prove it!

Usually professional tradesman who do this sort of stuff as a full time job...and were stuck between a rock & a hard place. Needing to get a project done ASAP (with the boss yelling at them)...and maintaining safety. As they put it...it was either work faster to get the job done (and compromise safety)...or lose their job.

It's a mean cruel world out there!

- Nick

Moved off-topic posts to Schweb's Lounge. We got really off topic in the Notebook spill thread! lol

It's all good.

- Nick

My husband, who is an electrical inspector, tells me you most likely will feel a brief tingle when the hair dryer hits the water before the hopefully fully functional GFCI pops. He also tells me they are only rated to be good for 5 years. Very encouraging because we all know the average homeowner will track that and replace them every 5 years - right.

He is also unaware of any whole house GFCIs. There are some places they don't work well. Example - sump pumps (which sit in water), refrigerators (as they get older they develop small grounds which would shut off the current.)

As for the SawStop Saw - I was on board until I read, "Resetting the saw yourself is easy. Simply replace the blade and affordable brake cartridge and your saw is operational." I use to teach shop and I can just see my little darlings testing it, "You try it, no you, I'll try it!" I would have been buying blades and brake cartridges by the caseload which would have made it not so affordable. So, I say let them learn the hard way, one time and they won't do that again!!

Lisa

lclev said:

My husband, who is an electrical inspector, tells me you most likely will feel a brief tingle when the hair dryer hits the water before the hopefully fully functional GFCI pops. He also tells me they are only rated to be good for 5 years. Very encouraging because we all know the average homeowner will track that and replace them every 5 years - right.

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Absolutely Lisa. You know how good the average homeowner is about periodic maintenance! Automobiles too!

lclev said:

He is also unaware of any whole house GFCIs. There are some places they don't work well. Example - sump pumps (which sit in water), refrigerators (as they get older they develop small grounds which would shut off the current.)

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I got things mixed up Lisa. I was thinking of GFCI breakers. Which can protect an entire circuit...such as a whole kitchen or whole bathroom.

lclev said:

As for the SawStop Saw - I was on board until I read, "Resetting the saw yourself is easy. Simply replace the blade and affordable brake cartridge and your saw is operational." I use to teach shop and I can just see my little darlings testing it, "You try it, no you, I'll try it!" I would have been buying blades and brake cartridges by the caseload which would have made it not so affordable. So, I say let them learn the hard way, one time and they won't do that again!!

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This is what I was thinking too...regarding the replacement cost. But figured it was worth it if it saved a finger. Of course wasn't thinking of a situation of Wood Shop class...where you can pretty much throw out the rule book when it comes to logic & sensibility! lol

- Nick

lclev said:

My husband, who is an electrical inspector, tells me you most likely will feel a brief tingle when the hair dryer hits the water before the hopefully fully functional GFCI pops. He also tells me they are only rated to be good for 5 years. Very encouraging because we all know the average homeowner will track that and replace them every 5 years - right.

He is also unaware of any whole house GFCIs. There are some places they don't work well. Example - sump pumps (which sit in water), refrigerators (as they get older they develop small grounds which would shut off the current.)

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Hi Lisa - after posting previously, I checked the GFCIs in my kitchen and bathrooms using the 'test' button - all seemed to shut off and then return to function normally - these are about 10 years old at this point - I guess the point is to periodically test these outlets which is printed on the covers - PLUS, a little 'tingle' in the tub might be pleasant?

lclev said:

As for the SawStop Saw - I was on board until I read, "Resetting the saw yourself is easy. Simply replace the blade and affordable brake cartridge and your saw is operational." I use to teach shop and I can just see my little darlings testing it, "You try it, no you, I'll try it!" I would have been buying blades and brake cartridges by the caseload which would have made it not so affordable. So, I say let them learn the hard way, one time and they won't do that again!!

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About 6 years ago when I retired, I bought a new table saw, i.e. a Steel City contractor model w/ cast iron tables (about $700 as I recall) - I did look at the SawStop which priced out at $2K or above new (had a friend buy one used on Craig's List for half that price), but considered the cost of an injury, i.e. a new blade + a new AL stop device, probably a $100 or more (my 10" saw blades are usually $50-$80) - SO far have been fine using the 'less expensive' saw - would like a little more power. There are some newer options that do not destroy the saw blade (maybe Bosch?), so others are looking into this 'blade stop' technology. Thanks for your comments. Dave
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Before you all go thinkin' I am all that smart - I was asking my husband and typing what he said about GFCIs.

The saw comments were all me! ;D

RadDave said:

Hi Lisa -PLUS, a little 'tingle' in the tub might be pleasant? .

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It can be if you like that sort of thing. I use to have automatic waterers in our barn. I noticed when I turned out one of my horses she would run to the outside water and drink like she hadn't had water for days. The automatic waterer had water and seemed to be working. I put my hand into see if there was something I was not seeing. I didn't see it but I felt it. The ground was bad and I was definitely feeling a 'tingle' which explained why the horse was not drinking. When I got it fixed it took quite a bit of convincing to get her to use it again. It was like - nope not gonna do that, it bites!

Lisa

lclev said:

Before you all go thinkin' I am all that smart - I was asking my husband and typing what he said about GFCIs.

It can be if you like that sort of thing. I use to have automatic waterers in our barn. I noticed when I turned out one of my horses she would run to the outside water and drink like she hadn't had water for days. The automatic waterer had water and seemed to be working. I put my hand into see if there was something I was not seeing. I didn't see it but I felt it. The ground was bad and I was definitely feeling a 'tingle' which explained why the horse was not drinking. When I got it fixed it took quite a bit of convincing to get her to use it again. It was like - nope not gonna do that, it bites!

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Hi Lisa - funny story! Susan & I used to ride horses (below us on a trip nearly 10 years ago to Myrtle Beach, SC) - as we got older, she developed some balance issues which eliminated some of our mountain woods walks and became afraid of sitting on top of a horse, so gave up the enjoyment - but I loved being around the horses and found them affectionate (at least the ones I rode) and intelligent - miss the experience. Dave
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We don't allow anything other than a low voltage shaver/toothbrush socket in bathrooms in the UK. Light switches have to be outside or via a pull cord. I'm always astonished at hairdryers in bathrooms in US hotels but this thread reassures me that I will not die (as did Ken Barlow's first wife in Coronation Street!) if I drop the dryer into a full basin of water.

Dave - I grew up riding horses. One of my summer jobs included working at a kid's camp and teaching kids to ride. I basically taught them enough to go on trail rides all over the extensive camp grounds. I took care of the horses too. Back then no one wore a helmet unless they were jumping. Now it seems everyone does!

Since having both of my hips replaced and my old mare died, I have not had an occasion to ride. I miss it.

Lisa

badshoehabit said:

We don't allow anything other than a low voltage shaver/toothbrush socket in bathrooms in the UK. Light switches have to be outside or via a pull cord. I'm always astonished at hairdryers in bathrooms in US hotels but this thread reassures me that I will not die (as did Ken Barlow's first wife in Coronation Street!) if I drop the dryer into a full basin of water.

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Sue - no problem w/ newer hotels or older ones where the bathroom/kitchen outlets have been updated to GFCIs - but, I guess if you rented in an older establishment or some mountain cabin that was 'grandfathered', then might be an issue?

lclev said:

Dave - I grew up riding horses. One of my summer jobs included working at a kid's camp and teaching kids to ride. I basically taught them enough to go on trail rides all over the extensive camp grounds. I took care of the horses too. Back then no one wore a helmet unless they were jumping. Now it seems everyone does!

Since having both of my hips replaced and my old mare died, I have not had an occasion to ride. I miss it.

Lisa

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Lisa - sounds like horses where an important part of your life - still love to see them - 2 years ago, we visited our son in Indiana, usually fly but decided to drive but made 2-3 day stops in Kentucky on the way there and back - coming home we stopped in Lexington - 'Horse Capital of the World' (according to them and likely true) - the horse farms were gorgeous (the barns more beautiful and cleaner than many houses, I'd guess!) - and the Kentucky Horse Park a joy to see - if interested, I have a travelogue HERE - first half on Frankfurt, second on Indy (our son's home), and last on Lexington - latter starts on pg. 4 - we would like to return soon! Dave

Dave - I checked out your link. A lot of the pictures were nostalgic - brought back a lot of memories. I have shown at the Kentucky horse park - both horses and dogs. I have toured several of the Lexington area horse farms and been to Louisville and toured a lot of cool places. I have also been to Churchhill Downs both with my 4-H club growing up and later when I was teaching, with my FFA kids and stood freezing in the early morning to watch them work the horses.

I have a granddaughter who is currently getting her feet wet in the horse world. She is jumping Quarter Horses. She started riding at 12 which is a bit late but my daughter says it is great for keeping her focus off boys - and I agree!

Lisa

lclev said:

Dave - I checked out your link. A lot of the pictures were nostalgic - brought back a lot of memories. I have shown at the Kentucky horse park - both horses and dogs. I have toured several of the Lexington area horse farms and been to Louisville and toured a lot of cool places. I have also been to Churchhill Downs both with my 4-H club growing up and later when I was teaching, with my FFA kids and stood freezing in the early morning to watch them work the horses.

I have a granddaughter who is currently getting her feet wet in the horse world. She is jumping Quarter Horses. She started riding at 12 which is a bit late but my daughter says it is great for keeping her focus off boys - and I agree!

Lisa

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Hi again Lisa - well, in Ohio you are certainly close by and suspect had a LOT of fun going to the Lexington area; plus, for the bourbon drinkers in the forum, another attraction - We've been to Louisville several times including visits to Churchill Downs - took the tours and been to the museum, but never saw a horse race there - I'm sure that you miss those 'horse' experiences - when we returned from that trip, I had to get a 'horse book' and ordered the one below from Amazon - full of beautiful pics and not too expensive. Dave
.

I grew up around horses and we still have neighbors with them, so if I wanted to go riding, I could. I quit after the first hip replacement brought on by early arthritis due to being kicked by a Clydesdale. I use to work with a team we used to pull a wagon. I got between him and a horse fly - and then I went flying. Anyway, it has always amused me that an animal up until the early 1900's we used daily for transportation is now a novelty to most and many have never seen one up close or touched one. Only the amish still use them for farm labor and transportation on a daily basis anymore. They certainly contributed to the development of human society.

Lisa

Anyway, it has always amused me that an animal up until the early 1900's we used daily for transportation is now a novelty to most and many have never seen one up close or touched one. Only the amish still use them for farm labor and transportation on a daily basis anymore. They certainly contributed to the development of human society.

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Lots of folks nearby here in our local area still own horses and ride them at least once a week. We have a equestrian park and track about ¼ mile from our home. Unfortunately, the city of Fort Worth has done quite a bit of re-zoning to allow for more expensive homes to be built. Finding acreage zoned for horses is becoming rare which is too bad. Horses make for good neighbors, much better than the ones we've been getting here lately. ;D

chscag said:

Horses make for good neighbors, much better than the ones we've been getting here lately. ;D

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Would this be what you're referring to Charlie?:



- Nick