WiFi AND Ethernet

Took a quick look, didn't see anything on this, but I may have missed it.

I have a rMBP 15" Mid 2015, running Sierra 10.12.2. I also have an Apple Watch 2, running 3.1.1. I have an Apple Airport to which I have also run Ethernet to my Mac.

So, I have fantastic Ethernet speeds to the internet and am very happy with that. WiFI was not as fast, and I'd like to avoid going back to that, if possible.

However, to use the feature of having my AW unlock the rMBP, I get a message that WiFi is required.

I've tried just turning on WiFi, which lets the Watch unlock the Mac, but sooner or later the IP stack gets corrupted, or lost, and the WiFi and ethernet interfaces seem to "clog up" in that webpages balk, things half load, downloads don't finish, etc. I fix all that by turning off WiFi, but the the AW can't unlock the MBP any more.

So, is there a setting/configuration/magic incantation I can use to allow the Watch to unlock the MPB for me, but not have the collision issues? I.E., can I somehow restrict the WiFi to ONLY the watch unlock?

I'm thinking the answer is "no" but you guys are all wizards!

Hi Jake:

Let's see if Lisa can answer this one. She's our current AW experienced user, however, she may be on her way to Alaska on a vacation trip. ?

Can you "share" your Ethernet connection using wi-if with your AW?

No I won't be going to Alaska until July.

As for Jake's issue..... I am not getting a clear picture as to what is going on but here is one suggestion. What if you set your wifi to not use DHCP and set up a reservation for just your mac. Then on your mac in set your ip address and subnet manually? You might have to do that for both connections. Not really sure.

The other one I have will cost you $4.99. It is an app called Knock and it used bluetooth instead of wifi. http://www.knocktounlock.com/

Lisa

No I won't be going to Alaska until July.

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LOL, I don't know why I thought you were going soon. I guess it doesn't make sense to visit Alaska in the Winter! July is better.

I use manual IPs for all my devices, and had to turn WiFi on my MBP17 (mid-2010) off for the same reason as Jake, however after upgrade to Sierra, I left it on, and it is not causing any issues - the en0 is still the one connecting to the internet (I can see active IP and network name in StatsBar app), and I can use all other location features that require WiFi.

What's curious is that the WiFi IP and the Ethernet IP are different when the problem happens. So doing what Lisa and David suggested would not, I think, help. Do have a few IPs fenced off from DHCP, I could force the WiFi into one of those, but if I already have different IPs, I'm not sure how using fixed IP will help. I don't boot the MBP that often, so the IP numbers don't change. Right now the Ethernet is 192.168.1.201, and I just fired up the WiFi and it picked up 192.168.1.4. Typically the Ethernet is in the 200 range and the WiFi in the <100 range. It's not a huge deal, just annoying that it works initially, but eventually stalls.

MacInWin said:

What's curious is that the WiFi IP and the Ethernet IP are different when the problem happens. So doing what Lisa and David suggested would not, I think, help. Do have a few IPs fenced off from DHCP, I could force the WiFi into one of those, but if I already have different IPs, I'm not sure how using fixed IP will help. I don't boot the MBP that often, so the IP numbers don't change. Right now the Ethernet is 192.168.1.201, and I just fired up the WiFi and it picked up 192.168.1.4. Typically the Ethernet is in the 200 range and the WiFi in the <100 range. It's not a huge deal, just annoying that it works initially, but eventually stalls.

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It seems like your router distributes IP addresses in the 192.168.1.xxx range (your LAN). With your router address (192.168.1.1 ?) and your subnet mask (255.255.255.0 ?), we would know for sure.

In order for your MBP to communicate with your AW, they need to be in the same network and each one of them needs to know the other's MAC address.

Do you need your AW to connect to the [main] router (192.168.1.1 ?) as well, hence participate to the 192.168.1.xxx LAN ?

If YES, I will have no better suggestion.

If NO, why don't you try to communicate between the MBP and the AW *outside the above 192.168.1.xxx LAN and in a network *not connected to the internet ? Say in the 192.168.2.xxx range, to avoid interfering with your main internet connection. The MBP has a MAC address on its wifi port, you can give it a fixed IP (say 192.168.2.4). The AW has a MAC address on its wifi port, you coud give it a fixed IP (say 192.168.2.5) on its wifi port. I am not sure, then, how they will find each other's MAC address on this alien network router-less. Others may know better.

I have an Apple Airport Express as my WiFi router. I have it dispensing IPs in the range 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.200. The subnet mask is indeed 255.255.255.0. I have my Ethernet on the MBP set to 192.168.1.201 as a manual IP number plugged into the Ethernet port on the AE. I needed to do that for an application that needs certain ports opened for certain protocols and I could set that single IP to have the ports open that way. When I use just about any network tools to survey the local net, I see both my iPhone and the MBP, and they see each other, so it's good there. I cannot find out what the IP is on the watch, but when I put the watch in Airplane Mode, I do see one device drop out of the router, and then return when I kill the Airplane Mode, so I assume that is the watch in the WiFi network. It does not identify itself by its name.

Here is what you need to set this up (from Apple at https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206995 ):

How to set up Auto Unlock

Make sure that your devices meet the system requirements for this feature:
Apple Watch using watchOS 3
Mid-2013 or newer Mac using macOS Sierra 10.12 or later.
Make sure that your Apple ID is using two-factor authentication instead of two-step verification.
Learn how to switch from two-step verification to two-factor authentication.
Make sure that your devices are set up as follows:
Your Mac has Bluetooth turned on.
Your Mac has Wi-Fi turned on.
Your Mac and Apple Watch are signed in to iCloud with the same Apple ID.
On your Mac, choose Apple menu () > System Preferences, then click iCloud.
On your iPhone, open the Apple Watch app, then go to General > Apple ID.
Your Apple Watch is using a passcode.
On your iPhone, open the Apple Watch app, then tap Passcode.
Your Mac isn't using Internet Sharing.
Your Mac has ”Allow your Apple Watch to unlock your Mac” selected in Security & Privacy preferences.

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So I have my Watch picking up an IP from the router and don't see how to set it to fixed to get out of the subnet.

From the requirements, it looks like the Mac and watch communicate using WiFi to ascertain if you have entered the proper passcode to unlock the watch, or unlocked the watch with your iPhone (via BT), to verify that you are you, and the watch uses heartbeat detection to make sure that since unlocking the watch it has not left your wrist. So, when the watch is in the vicinity of the Mac, it is someone with the passcode for your iPhone or who passed the fingerprint test on your iPhone. Basically, you prove that you are you. And being satisfied that you are you, and that the watch and Mac have the same iCloud login information for you, the Mac unlocks as if you entered your password on the Mac. It's actually pretty slick in action. I come into my office, tap the space bar and in about 1-2 seconds the desktop appears, ready to work. The range for the unlock is very short, a matter of a few feet, so I suspect that what is going on is that they connect by WiFi, then the Mac queries by WiFi for the iCloud information and the watch answers with a very weak WiFi signal and the Mac unlocks. (I speculate that because I occasionally get a message on the login screen that the WiFi is too weak to use the unlock function despite being in the room with the router about 8 feet away.) Otherwise, the watch doesn't use WiFi at all, depending on BT for communications with the iPhone. The watch does NOT appear on the Mac in BT devices at all but does show on my iPhone as connected. (That's all speculation on my part, but sounds reasonable to me. If the watch were using WiFI for networking full time, the battery would die pretty quickly.) The watch uses BT to connect to earbuds and to my heart rate cardio strap from Polar.

Bottom line: I can't see a way to move the watch to a fixed IP in a different subnet even if that would work. I've turned on WiFi again on the MBP and for today it's been working pretty well.

I'll live with it. Thanks.

It seems like your Mac is very close from your wifi router. Then the wifi signal it receives fron the router might be quite strong. Strong enough maybe to appear to be equivalent or better than your Ethernet signal, in your Mac's eyes. I believe when a computer has two ports opened simultaneously to the Internet, it selects the best. At the office, where wifi was good, IT always advised us to never have more than one port open to the Internet. Otherwise, trouble, they said.

Maybe weakening the wifi signal arriving to your Mac from your wifi router could contribute fo stabilizing the #1 position you want for your Ethernet connection ? A big metallic wall, or flower pot or whatever shielding your Mac from the wifi waves coming in straight line from your airport express wifi access point ?

Otherwise, since your AW cannot pick its IP, it must receive it through DHCP from *another wifi router, not connected to the Internet, and distributing IP addresses in another range, like 192.168.2.xxx, to which you would connect your Mac's wifi port. Not sure it would work, but it may.

Jake - first, you must have all your devices on the same subnet. A subnet is like a grouping of all the devices you want to share your network. Think of it as a neighborhood. Those in the same neighborhood can play together, those not can not. Both your wired and wireless networks must be on the same subnet.

To use two subnets you have to have two routers and set up a bridge between them to get devices on two subnets to communicate. This is done on larger networks not on a home network.

The apple watch will connect to networks that have been connected to in the iPhone. I couldn't find a clear answer to if it will connect on it's own if a password is required. I will explore that at work today. I am not sure it stores network passwords like the iPhone does.

As for your issue. I will keep thinking on it and if I have any revelations I will post back.

Lisa

Lisa, I know what subnets are and how they work. And I can set up a separate subnet, if that's what helps. But I don't see any way to tell the  watch to change from one subnet to another. That is, I don't see any WiFi controls on the watch at all. Just on/off. What I plan to do next is to take my MBP and my watch away from the WiFi altogether, to see if the watch and Mac communicate directly, or if everything has to go through the router. As I said, what I think is happening is that the combination of watch, iPhone and Mac communicate to first make sure I'm me, then that all of them are in the same iCloud account and that the passwords for that iCloud account are correctly entered on all three. Given all of that, the Mac then "trusts" the  watch to unlock the Mac. If you look at the Apple watch user guide here: http://help.apple.com/watch/#/apd0443fb403 it does NOT say you can unlock a Mac without the iPhone nearby. That's why I'm testing that theory today.

But the real problem is not the subnet, I think. The problem is that assigning two IPs to the MBP, one Wifi and one Ethernet, works for a while, but then the system gets confused and downloads stall, web pages balk and generally the system gets mucked up. Shutting off the WiFi fixes the problem, but then the login doesn't work. I don't think changing subnets will fix the stalling, balking and mucking up. I think the problem is having two IP numbers in the same system.

I did look at Knock, BTW. Nice solution, thanks for pointing it out. Will keep that in mind if this gets irritating enough.

Experiment one: I put the iPhone in Airplane mode. Watch unlocked the Mac. So the iPhone isn't needed to unlock the Mac, it's a Mac-Watch negotiation after all. But you DO need to use the iPhone to set it up first.

I am in no way recommending changing any subnets. They all need to be on the same one and anyway you can only set one subnet on your Airport. So if I ever gave you the impression of using two subnets I am sorry that is not what I was suggesting.

You indicate the watch will unlock the Mac without the iPhone - that does not surprise me. Apple says the watch will connect to any wifi that the iPhone has previously connected to. You might have just answered a question that I had yet to test - does the Watch store the passwords for the various iPhone approved wifi connections or can it only connect to open connections. I believe I can safely assume you have a wifi password. Although if you iPhone is close by the Watch could "check" with the phone as it uses bluetooth to communicate and it would still be able to check on a password????

I am still puzzled by what the issue is with Ethernet versus Wifi on your mac. I run both on my Mac Pro. In my network setting I have the Ethernet set as the first one to use in the "set service order". I don't think that makes a difference but I do want it to use the Ethernet over the Wifi. I have never notice any issues. I have the Ethernet set to an assigned IP address and the wireless is set to use DHCP. I don't know if it makes any difference I just have it set that way for our server reservations.

Not sure what to suggest but I will keep thinking on it.

Lisa

Lisa, what you have is exactly what I want, Ethernet first, then WiFi (only for the unlock). I, too, have Ethernet fixed IP and WiFi DHCP. I do have Ethernet at the top of the interfaces, to be first. WiFi is second. So you and I have pretty much identical setups. And it works, for a while. Eventually I'll start to see downloads hanging, screens slow to fill on Safari, updates in iTunes hanging up downloading, and other symptoms of network slowdowns. Killing the WiFi interface clears it up, then I can restart the WiFi and it works for a while. It's just annoying to have the network go squirrelly in the middle of a large download, or a stream of video.

As I said, not a killer, just annoying. I thought there might be a quick fix, but if you have it working and I don't, but our setups are the same, then maybe it isn't so simple.

And yes, I do have a WiFi password. The experiment had the iPhone in Airplane mode, so no BT and no WiFi and the watch still unlocked the Mac, so if there are passwords stored, they are on the watch somewhere.

One final comment. I've noticed that with both WiFI and Ethernet open, if I start a large download and watch Activity monitor for Network traffic, either WiFi only or Ethernet only is faster than both on. Maybe that was just a coincidental slowdown in the internet, but it was there, nevertheless. I may test that more carefully next time I do a big download to see if it is a consistent phenomenon.

Ain't networking fun? Almost as much fun as printing!

Ain't networking fun? Almost as much fun as printing!

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Almost as much fun as trying to get into your local Apple Store the week before Xmas, or returning Xmas gifts to Wal-Mart on Dec 27th! ;D

System Preferences -> Network

On the bottom of the list of network interfaces is a gear symbol with a drop-down arrow. Click that and choose Set Service Order.

Make sure your Ethernet interface is at the top, and your WiFi connection is below it. This should ensure that your WiFi connection doesn't get used unless there's an issue with the Ethernet connection.

Ember1205, thanks but as I said in Post #15, been there, done that.

Ain't networking fun? Almost as much fun as printing!

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I think you forgot to include scanning in there as well.






- Patrick
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