Is my iMac too slow?

Hi,

I am the owner of my old faithful 2009 iMac 27" which has served me reliably with not a single issue since new. But in the last couple years this machine has gotten slower and slower now to the point of being glacial. I've wanted a new computer for some time, but with the pricing of Apple these days there is simply no way I can afford a new iMac or MacBook pro.

I'm not very computer literate so I need some practical advice. The only advice I've gotten so far is anecdotal and not much use to me. Stuff that sales people say like "oh if you're doing video editing get the i7". This is the same thing they told me back in 2009. So my machine is an i5 2.66ghz with 4gb ram, 1TB HDD, ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB. It is running the latest Sierra.

The real questions I want answered are kind of simple no BS style. Why is my computer so slow to load basic programs like Microsoft word (1:20 load time to begin typing). Using MS word as an example, I get about 1.5-2 seconds of lag clicking between tabs at the top, and I can out type the cursor. For my computer to perform this badly on such an easy program is really frustrating. I don't have a lot of crap installed and my HDD is 30% full.

Something I want to do is learn to edit video. I have FCPX which takes a full 3:00 to load at which point it tells me editing 4k is not recommended on this machine. I have been told that video editing is mostly CPU intensive. So I have an "old" machine which is 2.66ghz i5 quad core. The new iMac 27" are 3.2ghz i5 quad core. So if this nomenclature is worth anything, 2.6/3.2 = 81%. So on average my computer should only be 19% slower than a new one on processing tasks? Theoretically a 5 second computational task on a new iMac should then take my computer 6 seconds??

Can I expect to have a reasonably usable computer with some RAM upgrade, maybe a SSD drive? Will I be able to take 4k video, down sample it to 1080p and edit footage on this computer? Is it worth putting money into this machine still? Or should I just get a new computer? Running geekbench 4 my computer puts out 2494 single core and 6793 multi core. In that sense is it comparable to other computers which put out the same score, IE it would not really be an upgrade for me to purchase something like a 2015 MacBook pro 13" which scores 3700/7000?

A RAM upgrade to at least 8GB should help. You could also try a maintenance app called Onyx which most of us on here run occasionally.

http://www.titanium.free.fr/onyx.html

Have you got any anti virus or Mac cleaning type software installed? They can cause problems.

pne said:

I've wanted a new computer for some time, but with the pricing of Apple these days there is simply no way I can afford a new iMac or MacBook pro.

Click to expand...

Original price for your "Late 2009" 27" iMac was $1999 (in 2009). A comparable (mid-range) 2015 27" iMac costs (guess what??)...$1999! Not only is a 2015 mid-range 27" iMac the EXACT same price as your 2009 27" iMac...it's actually less expensive when you factor in inflation!

I of course do not know your current budget situation. So don't know if it handle a $1999 purchase at the moment. But suggesting that Apple's current prices are unreasonable...it not really a logical discussion point. A 2015 27" iMac is actually less expensive than your 27" iMac was in 2009.

pne said:

I'm not very computer literate so I need some practical advice. The only advice I've gotten so far is anecdotal and not much use to me. Stuff that sales people say like "oh if you're doing video editing get the i7". This is the same thing they told me back in 2009. So my machine is an i5 2.66ghz with 4gb ram, 1TB HDD, ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB. It is running the latest Sierra.

The real questions I want answered are kind of simple no BS style. Why is my computer so slow to load basic programs like Microsoft word (1:20 load time to begin typing). Using MS word as an example, I get about 1.5-2 seconds of lag clicking between tabs at the top, and I can out type the cursor. For my computer to perform this badly on such an easy program is really frustrating. I don't have a lot of crap installed and my HDD is 30% full.

Something I want to do is learn to edit video. I have FCPX which takes a full 3:00 to load at which point it tells me editing 4k is not recommended on this machine. I have been told that video editing is mostly CPU intensive. So I have an "old" machine which is 2.66ghz i5 quad core. The new iMac 27" are 3.2ghz i5 quad core. So if this nomenclature is worth anything, 2.6/3.2 = 81%. So on average my computer should only be 19% slower than a new one on processing tasks? Theoretically a 5 second computational task on a new iMac should then take my computer 6 seconds??

Click to expand...

As member nickyr suggested...a RAM upgrade and running the maintenance app called "Onyx"...may help. Also...it's possible your 2009 hard drive (8 years old) could be starting to fail. And as you suggested...installing an SSD could really make loading of apps and files MUCH MUCH faster. With a RAM and SSD upgrades...this computer would probably fell like new!!!

pne said:

Running geekbench 4 my computer puts out 2494 single core and 6793 multi core. In that sense is it comparable to other computers which put out the same score, IE it would not really be an upgrade for me to purchase something like a 2015 MacBook pro 13" which scores 3700/7000?

Click to expand...

New mid-range 2015 27" iMac has Geekbench scores of 3479/11696 (about 40% faster). But...the MUCH more important thing is the graphics hardware in a 2015 27" iMac is "light years" faster than a 2009 27" iMac!!! AND...then there's the 5K display!

As far as a 13" MacBook Pro. The mid-range model costs $1799 ($200 less than the original price of your 2009 27" iMac was...in 2009). Also be aware that a 13" 2016 MacBook Pro has 2 cores...your 27" 2009 iMac has 4 cores. Thus this needs to be taken into consideration when comparing Geekbench scores.

Bottom line:

- A RAM and SSD upgrade for your current iMac could REALLY breath new life into it.
- If you wanted to purchase a new computer. The prices of Apple computers in 2016 are actually about the same (or less factoring in inflation) than your 2009 27" iMac. Thus prices of 2015/2016 Apple computers is not really the issue. But if that sort of purchase at the moment does not fit the budget...totally understandable.

HTH,

- Nick

p.s. You could also check out the Apple refurbished area as well. Generally you can save 15% or more vs. new. I just looked. And mid-range 2015 27" iMac's are in the $1500-$1600 area (versus $1799-$1999 new).

p.p.s. Thread moved to better area. Not a "Switcher Hangout" topic.

pne said:

The real questions I want answered are kind of simple no BS style. Why is my computer so slow to load basic programs like Microsoft word (1:20 load time to begin typing). Using MS word as an example, I get about 1.5-2 seconds of lag clicking between tabs at the top, and I can out type the cursor. For my computer to perform this badly on such an easy program is really frustrating.

Click to expand...

Your slowdown, especially the delay in Word, is very typical of a Mac that simply needs some routine maintenance, which I'm guessing has never been performed on your Mac.

Since some routine maintenance is free, that's probably where you should start. A 2009 iMac is not a slow computer when it is running well. In fact, it is a very good performing computer, and it is quite likely that you can regain all of the performance that it once had.

Have a look at:

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

and, though I suspect that your Mac will be quite noticeably faster after doing the recommended maintenance there, if it still isn't as fast as it once was, check out:

OS X Slowdown Solutions
http://www.macattorney.com/sd.html

Also, while Sierra is generally a faster OS than past versions, if you upgraded by a simple in-place (i.e. "upgrade") installation, that may have resulted in a software conflict that is slowing things down. Did things get a lot slower after upgrading to Sierra? If so, you might benefit from reinstalling Sierra via a clean install. I can send you instructions on how to do that with a minimum of pain, if you like.

thank you for the advice. I tried some of the tips and installed 8gb of additional ram as well as repaired permissions. I also deleted everything off my desktop and moved as many files as possible to my external drive. I'm very pleased to say microsoft word boots in 4 seconds now. I am able to load apps like photos, mail, etc in 3-4 seconds whereas previously they were all 30 seconds to 1 minute.

I am now considering replacing my HDD with a SDD. I have a spare Samsung Evo 80gb SDD, would this be large enough or what should the min size be? I do plan to keep most photos and videos on an external drive. I did enable iCloud as well but I am kind of puzzled why my storage space taken up by photos has not decreased yet, it is still showing some 90gb. Is this automatic or do I have to activate it somewhere?

pne said:

thank you for the advice. I tried some of the tips and installed 8gb of additional ram as well as repaired permissions. I also deleted everything off my desktop and moved as many files as possible to my external drive. I'm very pleased to say microsoft word boots in 4 seconds now. I am able to load apps like photos, mail, etc in 3-4 seconds whereas previously they were all 30 seconds to 1 minute.

Click to expand...

That sounds great! Nice inexpensive RAM upgrade...and some maintenance!

pne said:

I am now considering replacing my HDD with a SDD.

Click to expand...

An SSD upgrade should certainly help the computer to feel even quicker (launch apps, load files). But be aware...upgrading the storage in a Late 2009 iMac isn't as simple as removing the old drive & popping in a new one. There's a special thermal sensor issue to deal with. Luckily OWC (macsales.com) sells a cable that makes things easy. Here's the links:

The install kit:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DIYIMACHDD09/

Just the cable:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DIDIMACHDD09/

- Nick

And there are other threads here about the Samsung EVO not playing nice with pre 2010 Macs generally.

I have a 2010 with the same basic specs as yours except it was a BTO machine with Quad core i7 with 8 threads. In Sierra it flies. VERY fast. Video encoding is faster than my Quad Core PC in fact.

I am glad the RAM upgrade sped it up for you. 4GB for Sierra is very lean. I went all the way and got 32GB RAM from OWC and I am very happy with it. I think early next year I will get an SSD as large as I can afford and replace the WD 1TB Black I put in 2 months back.

An SSD will make loading times even shorter and it will boot up probably 2x+ faster to the desktop!

I too have a 2009 iMac which slowed way down. And my SMART status was failing. I had a local computer repair guy (who came highly recommended) put in a new 1TB hard drive. He also cleaned the insides thoroughly and installed a new exhaust fan, took out the old defective one. For less than $300, my beloved iMac is like new. Might be worth you looking into this fix. Good luck!

I would definitely upgrade to more RAM - as much as you can stuff in there. But I have a new 2015 i-7 iMac and find Sierra slow, also. El Capitan was much faster scrolling, opening things in Word, and Excel. My Office 2011 became so jerky as to be unusable, and I upgraded to the new Office 365 which is definitely faster, but frankly is not as polished as the earlier version.

I am hoping the next upgrade (v2) of Sierra will address some of the performance issues. It is frustrating to see Apple upgrade its OS just to have fancy features that few care about, and degrade the performance of its machines for those who want a smooth computer experience.

Frankly, Sierra makes the Mac about as much fun as Windows.

Repair guide to help

Many of you probably already use this, but it's invaluable as a source of how to take apart your Apple stuff

https://www.ifixit.com/

basicbart said:

I have a new 2015 i-7 iMac and find Sierra slow, also. ...

I am hoping the next upgrade (v2) of Sierra will address some of the performance issues.

Click to expand...

I've heard from countless users on this topic. Sierra isn't slow. In fact, it's probably the fastest version of the MacOS since the introduction of OS X. Some folks have found that Sierra is slow for them if they have upgraded via a normal upgrade install, but doing a clean install always remedies the problem. And there are a variety of other things that can cause an installation of Sierra to perform poorly. But that doesn't mean that it's normal for Sierra to run slow. It definitely isn't.

If your Mac with an i7 processor (a very fast processor) is running slow under Sierra, you need to do some troubleshooting to fix the problem. It's likely that even when a new version of the MacOS is released, and you upgrade to it, you will still continue to have the same performance issues.

Have a look at:

Macintosh OS X Slowdown Solutions
http://www.macattorney.com/sd.html

pattilou52 said:

I too have a 2009 iMac which slowed way down. And my SMART status was failing. I had a local computer repair guy (who came highly recommended) put in a new 1TB hard drive. He also cleaned the insides thoroughly and installed a new exhaust fan, took out the old defective one. For less than $300, my beloved iMac is like new. Might be worth you looking into this fix. Good luck!

Click to expand...

Yes, decreased performance can be an advance warning of a failing rotating disk hard drive. SMART is one way to verify this, but SMART is notoriously unreliable as it is implemented on the Macintosh. If one wants to check the health of their hard drive to see if it is close to failing, or if it is the source of decreased performance, you can use the free demo of this excellent utility:

DriveDX - free demo
http://binaryfruit.com/drivedx

Randy B. Singer said:

I've heard from countless users on this topic. Sierra isn't slow. In fact, it's probably the fastest version of the MacOS since the introduction of OS X. Some folks have found that Sierra is slow for them if they have upgraded via a normal upgrade install, but doing a clean install always remedies the problem. And there are a variety of other things that can cause an installation of Sierra to perform poorly. But that doesn't mean that it's normal for Sierra to run slow. It definitely isn't.

If your Mac with an i7 processor (a very fast processor) is running slow under Sierra, you need to do some troubleshooting to fix the problem. It's likely that even when a new version of the MacOS is released, and you upgrade to it, you will still continue to have the same performance issues.

Have a look at:

Macintosh OS X Slowdown Solutions
http://www.macattorney.com/sd.html

Click to expand...

Thank you for your input. It may well be that a clean install would speed up the Mac. But I would also comment that my i7 iMac, new last April, came with ElCapitan installed; I upgraded it to Sierra using the Apple upgrade from the app store. It would behoove Apple to see that their installer does not work in such a way that it leaves you with a slower Mac. If as you suggest, I can cure the problem with a clean install, why can't Apple make an installer that gives you the same result without the customer having to do so much work? Surely they have the capability.

I will have to trouble shoot the issue and correct it, but you shouldn't be willing to let Apple off the hook so easily.

basicbart said:

I will have to trouble shoot the issue and correct it, but you shouldn't be willing to let Apple off the hook so easily.

Click to expand...

I'm not. I'm only telling you what will help, I'm not apologizing for Apple.

The problem is that Apple’s current installer doesn't do a good job of culling out incompatible stay-resident system software when doing an OS upgrade. *

Back when OS X's installer did what was called an "Archive and Install" all of your old system software was put into a folder and disabled, and a totally clean installation of OS X was performed, leaving all of your apps and documents untouched. *And that's what is really required to get Sierra running really well on a Mac when doing an upgrade; a completely clean install. *Unfortunately, doing that now is a pain in the behind, because Sierra's installer only offers to do a clean install if it also entirely erases your hard drive. *(I can give you instructions for for how to do a clean install of Sierra, and save all of your apps and data, that aren't terribly hard, if you like.)

If you’d like to see Apple bring back the Archive and Install method of upgrading the MacOS, tell them at:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

@Randy

If member basicchart created a new user account and ran from that account for a bit as a test, would that help identify the issue at all? I suspect you are right about the source of the problem.

@basicchart If you look at your account in System Preferences what items show under Login Items?

Slydude said:

@Randy

If member basicchart created a new user account and ran from that account for a bit as a test, would that help identify the issue at all?

Click to expand...

Sure. if things were better when running in a new pristine user account, it would narrow down the problem to software, and only software running in the main user account.

On the other hand, if the problem is due to system software, running in a new user account wouldn't tell you anything.

Randy - it would be very helpful to have a method to do a clean install without wiping out the entire disk. I think a lot of users could benefit from that information. Thanks for the offer.

Randy B. Singer said:

Sure. if things were better when running in a new pristine user account, it would narrow down the problem to software, and only software running in the main user account.

On the other hand, if the problem is due to system software, running in a new user account wouldn't tell you anything.

Click to expand...

That was kind of my point. If the problem does not occur in the pristine account then the cause of the problem is in the original user account. A clean install probably won't fix that. Time would be better spent rooting out the cause of the problem.

Randy - it would be very helpful to have a method to do a clean install without wiping out the entire disk.

Click to expand...

I dare say, why try reinventing the wheel when the info is already readily available with a google search. Try:
https://www.google.ca/search?client...-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=HeVNWPXrMeHe8Afkp6ZI

But let's give your question two seconds of thought and ask — how could one do a "clean install without wiping out the entire disk".

That's like trying to wash a pair of dirty jeans without getting them all wet.

OK, ok, I know, some advocate never washing jeans, but just rub the dried dirt off. Maybe that could work on a drive volume somehow.






- Patrick
======