Things I DO NOT like about Mac OS X...

Correct me if I'm just ignorant of these in MAC, but even so, they are definitely not placed conveniently

1. No unique folder structure for each APP - files are saved to a folder in my user folder with a hodge-podge of other APP files in the same place. I don't like clutter!
2. Having to close APP's from the menu bar after I have already closed the APP's open window. This is redundant. MS Windows' minimize/maximize/close buttons beat the Mac's in this respect.
3. There should be 'Cut/Copy/Paste/Move' and 'Delete/ Rename' and 'Save/Save as' buttons in each menu bar like in Windows. These functions should be readily available in every single APP, in the same location as well as in the right-click on the mouse. - Copy/Paste is sometimes available on the MAC but only in some APP's and where the heck is it in others? A function so common in computing should be readily and easily available at all times. There should be a command bar for all of these as well as those keyboard commands - can you remember all of them?
4. There don't seem to be any multiple sessions for the APP's. It is convenient to just simply open a second session of the same APP when necessary when working in Windows. Can this be done in OS X. Just my asking means if the answer is yes - then where the heck is it?
5. A printer icon would be nice.

I think the one thing that really irks me about OS X is that I can't go full-screen with apps like Firefox. I like having the app that I'm using take up the full space of the montior. I'm kind of OCD about it and that's why I'm still using my Windows machine primarily. Also the Windows XP GUI seems much quicker than Aqua, visually at least.

I have had my MBP for 2 weeks and I encountered some of the same issues.

2) to close and app you can press the apple key +Q. Actually is gettting easier for me to close apps!!

3) another apple key + X,C,V etc

5) Printer info acan be found in system profile I believe.

usage of the shortcuts definitely will take some getting used to, but I see the advantages in regards to stramlining the process of closing apps, cutting, pasting, copying etc.

If you really need the "right click" functions you can utilize a standard USB mouse.

It appears that you guys have not be using the system very long. if you were you would find that Mac OS is very intuitive.

As for copy/cut and paste, you can use the command option at all time.

command c - copy
command x - cut
command v - paste

If understand the application problem. There are only a few default folders created for the end user, anything else the end user can create. So if you want an application foloder in your home folder, you can create it.

I use both system. home and at work. I find that just click on the file to change the name is much easier to do than selct from a pull down menu. As for fullscreen, if you click on the green button in most cases it will fill the screen. If not just drap the window size to fill the screen.

I am a newb as well. I have had my iMac about a week.

I can only say that I am getting used to the differences day by day.

I found that if you spend a bit of time tuning how apps appear on screen they tend to stay how you leave them.

For example, if you move your apps upper left corner to the upper left of your screen, then move the lower right corner to the lower right it will stay that way the next time you open the app.

Here's one I haven't figured out yet: The END key does not go to the end of the line in any app I have tried so far. Is my END key not functioning or does it do something else in Mac Land?

Mike

MichaelMcKenzie said:

I am a newb as well. I have had my iMac about a week.

I can only say that I am getting used to the differences day by day.

I found that if you spend a bit of time tuning how apps appear on screen they tend to stay how you leave them.

For example, if you move your apps upper left corner to the upper left of your screen, then move the lower right corner to the lower right it will stay that way the next time you open the app.

Here's one I haven't figured out yet: The END key does not go to the end of the line in any app I have tried so far. Is my END key not functioning or does it do something else in Mac Land?

Mike

Click to expand...

Command + right arrow for "END" and Command + left arrow for "HOME" on lines. This drove me nuts because I'm totally a keyboard shortcut guy, took me forever to find it!

rman said:

It appears that you guys have not be using the system very long. if you were you would find that Mac OS is very intuitive.

As for copy/cut and paste, you can use the command option at all time.

command c - copy
command x - cut
command v - paste

If understand the application problem. There are only a few default folders created for the end user, anything else the end user can create. So if you want an application foloder in your home folder, you can create it.

I use both system. home and at work. I find that just click on the file to change the name is much easier to do than selct from a pull down menu. As for fullscreen, if you click on the green button in most cases it will fill the screen. If not just drap the window size to fill the screen.

Click to expand...

In most cases it will, but not in all. Safari only likes to go fullscreen vertically. Plus, there's all that extra space on the sides of the Dock as well as the menu bar at the top. I know I can make the Dock smaller, but I like the size. It just irks me, that's all. It's not "true" fullscreen like Windows to me. Obviously my only solution is to get a 30" screen ^_^

Mac OSX is not Windows. Comparing them is not going to get you anywhere.

Full screen apps waste screen real estate and destroy the purpose of a multitasking system.

The reason apps don't quit when you close the window (most do actually) is that they may have multiple windows open and if you closed one, you'd close all of them. So the "multiple instances" you're asking about are aquired by hitting Command + N in most apps (mainly Safari).

Most of the things you're asking about are things that Windows users get used to, but are not a good way to do things. Just because it's familiar doesn't mean it's streamlined. I would suggest forgetting about Windoze while you're on a Mac. You'll see that the experience is about 100% more rewarding.
:mac:

I suppose really we all have different ways of working and as a consequence of this we will find ourselves preferring one operating environment from another.

For my method of working Mac OS/Mac OS X has always fitted in excellently (and the Amiga Workbench before that); but I never got on with Windows, KDE etc.

That said, when I worked at the AppleCentre, I had one chap come in one day who had tried and tried with Mac OS X and had no joy as he explained to me how and why he found Windows suited him so much better. I agreed as it suited his way of working. This is entirely why choice is good and necessary.

At the end of the day Mac OS X isn't Windows and therefore isn't comparable in specification, nor is Apple trying to produce a carbon copy of Windows for the Mac as it were, it is Mac OS X, and therefore a different way of working. Sounds absurdly obvious but that is where the truth lies.

Vicky

kaidomac said:

Command + right arrow for "END" and Command + left arrow for "HOME" on lines. This drove me nuts because I'm totally a keyboard shortcut guy, took me forever to find it!

Click to expand...

Then why are there "home" and "end" keys taking up space on the keyboard?

:dummy:

I cannot see home and end keys on my Apple keyboard; is yours an Apple keyboard?

If it is, the arrows pointed diagonally to the top and bottom are Start of the document and end of the document, the arrows pointing up and down next to it are Page Up and Down respectively.

I think (not got my PowerBook open right now) that the iBook and PBook keyboards (Mac Book Pro too I assume) have Fn + Left/Right Cursor as Home and End.

Vicky

lil said:

At the end of the day Mac OS X isn't Windows and therefore isn't comparable in specification, nor is Apple trying to produce a carbon copy of Windows for the Mac as it were, it is Mac OS X, and therefore a different way of working. Sounds absurdly obvious but that is where the truth lies.

Vicky

Click to expand...

I could not have said it better. There are always threads like this where someone wants Mac to look, operate, work like, have certain "featrues" of, have keyboard commands like or just be like Windows... when well.....it just isn't. Its a Mac and it is different. It takes some getting used to if you are a longtime Windows, Linux, Commodore 64...etc user. But wishing it was like Windows isn't going to make things any easier. You will get the gist of it soon enough, just hang in there and stop thinking like Windows.
:black:

farmcock said:

4. There don't seem to be any multiple sessions for the APP's. It is convenient to just simply open a second session of the same APP when necessary when working in Windows. Can this be done in OS X. Just my asking means if the answer is yes - then where the heck is it?

Click to expand...

As a long-time Mac user, this is the only point I agree with you on. Some Apps will do this (Media Rage Pro for example) but 99% will not. It bugs me too.

Why do you need a printer icon? I don't have one on my Windows destop so why would I want one on a Mac desktop? Go into System Prefs and set up your printer and print.

farmcock said:

Correct me if I'm just ignorant of these in MAC, but even so, they are definitely not placed conveniently

1. No unique folder structure for each APP - files are saved to a folder in my user folder with a hodge-podge of other APP files in the same place. I don't like clutter!

Click to expand...

when installing or dragging and dropping select where you want to put each individual file. note to remember about ilife stuff if you move it, they will not automatically update if you take them out of the applications folder (or put them in a folder within applications) this irks some of us a lil bit.

2. Having to close APP's from the menu bar after I have already closed the APP's open window. This is redundant. MS Windows' minimize/maximize/close buttons beat the Mac's in this respect.

Click to expand...

it doesnt close the application because that button is meant to close the window. instead of moving your hands off of your keyboard, just hit command + q in order to quit the program entirely. and command + w to close just the window. a suggestion from me to all the new users is to keep your left hand on your home row of keys (asdf and thumb on command) and your other hand on the mouse, so many keyboard shortcuts can be made in this manner and you will barely use your mouse. when i am on macforums i only use my mouse to 'get new' and then open all the topics i feel like reading by command +click and then from there i dont touch my mouse for a good 45 minutes.

3. There should be 'Cut/Copy/Paste/Move' and 'Delete/ Rename' and 'Save/Save as' buttons in each menu bar like in Windows. These functions should be readily available in every single APP, in the same location as well as in the right-click on the mouse. - Copy/Paste is sometimes available on the MAC but only in some APP's and where the heck is it in others? A function so common in computing should be readily and easily available at all times. There should be a command bar for all of these as well as those keyboard commands - can you remember all of them?

Click to expand...

cut copy past, like already mentioned is command +x,c,v respectively. think about my keyboard/mouse hand position.

4. There don't seem to be any multiple sessions for the APP's. It is convenient to just simply open a second session of the same APP when necessary when working in Windows. Can this be done in OS X. Just my asking means if the answer is yes - then where the heck is it?

Click to expand...

sometimes if i have like 5 movies on my computer at once and i want to compress themall at the same time using dvd2one i create 5 copies of the program, open them all up and then do what i need to do. i dont know if this really answers your question

5. A printer icon would be nice.

Click to expand...

i dont even have a printer, cant help you there

for those who want 'full screen browsing'. the icon in the window will make your window larger or smaller depending on the page you are on. it will make the window the perfect size for the site. if you really want full screen browsing drag your window the the top left hand corner and then drag your bottom left corner of safari to the bottom right.

just so you all know, it took almost all of us a while to figure these things out and it might be a little weird to switch at first but remember you are using a different operating system and things are going to be different. you can still do just about the same things that you did on a windows machine but it might be a little different. a lot of us will say that they are better than windows but it is still personal preference.

enjoy the OS!!!
-chris

farmcock said:

2. Having to close APP's from the menu bar after I have already closed the APP's open window. This is redundant. MS Windows' minimize/maximize/close buttons beat the Mac's in this respect.

Click to expand...

Windows almost never beats Mac OS (even OSX) in user interface. This is one area it definitely does not. It may seem redundant, but it's a superior solution to Window's "the window is the app." In Windows, this can lead to very bizarre situations such as MS Office. You can have two excel documents open, each occupying their own window. You click the upper most right X in one of the excel documents, and both go away. Why? Because you just closed the app itself, not the document. This is horrible UI.

As for having more than one session of an app? You're basically doing that in an attempt to mimic Mac's nature of separating the running app from its document windows. You don't need seperate sessions in MacOS, each seperate window is a seperate document in the app, and the user controls carry over to each document just fine.

Think of Mac Apps as always being in MDI ("Multiple Document Interface", photoshop for Windows runs in MDI for example) without the MDI backdrop. That's all it is really. It really does end up being more intuitive, consistant and better.

And since command keys in Mac OS are extremely consistant, you will eventually find you'll actually learn and use them, unlike in Windows so command-Q to shut down any application, no matter what it is, will be second nature in no time.

OSX took some steps backwards in the UI department over Classic, but overall it's still quite good. Apple are the interface experts, they quite literally wrote the book on it. So give it time. Use your Mac for six months then get on a Windows machine and you'll see, you'll cry out in horror at how awful the Windows interface really is

Game2954 said:

If you really need the "right click" functions you can utilize a standard USB mouse.

Click to expand...

That wasn't the poster's point. Even _with_ a standard two buttons, one wheel USB mouse, in some apps, there will be a cut/copy/paste menu on right click, in others there isn't. A little bit of consistency would be nice. And there should definitely be a cut/paste menu in Finder.

honestly, even in Windows I don't ever click for copy and paste, i just press control + c, so for mac it makes no difference really

lil said:

I cannot see home and end keys on my Apple keyboard; is yours an Apple keyboard?
Vicky

Click to expand...

Yes, the basic Apple keyboard currently sold for $29 at the Apple Store has home and end, as well as page up and down keys.

http://www.spymac.com/upload/news/2005/09/27/m3261_Apple keyboard.jpg (232 kb, dial-up beware)

Kar98 said:

Yes, the basic Apple keyboard currently sold for $29 at the Apple Store has home and end, as well as page up and down keys.

http://www.spymac.com/upload/news/2005/09/27/m3261_Apple keyboard.jpg (232 kb, dial-up beware)

Click to expand...

Ahh, Yankee keyboard :flower: Being a Brit I never noticed it though as the Brit/European keyboard uses symbols more than the US one; such as actually having Option written on the option key, Caps lock written etc.

With you saying home and end keys, I have some vague recollection my old IIfx's keyboard has Home and End keys.

All I can say is Home and End on the keyboard mean Start and End of the document, not the line on a Mac keyboard and always have done for as long as I have used Macs (11 years).

Vicky

farmcock said:

Correct me if I'm just ignorant of these in MAC, but even so, they are definitely not placed conveniently

1. No unique folder structure for each APP - files are saved to a folder in my user folder with a hodge-podge of other APP files in the same place. I don't like clutter!

Click to expand...

How's that cluttered? All the apps in the app folder, all the music in the music folder. And if you want to uninstall an app, highlight and drag it to the trash can, or press apple backspace-del

2. Having to close APP's from the menu bar after I have already closed the APP's open window. This is redundant. MS Windows' minimize/maximize/close buttons beat the Mac's in this respect.

Click to expand...

apple q to quit the app (you'll be asked to save open documents), or rightclick on the icon in the dock and quit

3. There should be 'Cut/Copy/Paste/Move' and 'Delete/ Rename' and 'Save/Save as' buttons in each menu bar like in Windows.

Click to expand...

Well, possibly.

There should be a command bar for all of these as well as those keyboard commands - can you remember all of them?

Click to expand...

The ones I need, yes. I'm not looking at the shift stick in my car either. I couldn't even tell you what it looks like

4. There don't seem to be any multiple sessions for the APP's. It is convenient to just simply open a second session of the same APP when necessary when working in Windows. Can this be done in OS X. Just my asking means if the answer is yes - then where the heck is it?

Click to expand...

apple n will open a new window of the same app, if it makes sense, like in TextEdit and Safari. Just guessed at that combination, btw. See if it works in other apps too.

5. A printer icon would be nice.

Click to expand...

There's a printer icon in System Preferences that does what start/menu/settings/printers and faxes does on Windows. And if you print something, there will be a printer icon in the dock. Well, at least here there's one.

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