Is Five Years Too Long?

Yosemite is available as a free upgrade in my App Store. Don't know if that's true for others.

pm-r said:

Hmmm…??? And not to flog this topic too much and and a lot of what you say is true, but with one big exception — Mavericks is showing in my wife's SL mid-late 2007 iMac under the Purchases and even if she even has an Apple ID, as used with her iPad, she has never downloaded anything from Apple with her user admin account.

Click to expand...

Unless Apple is auto-adding new releases of OS X to everyone's purchase history, then she MUST have downloaded it with that Apple ID. Or perhaps registered a new Mac that came with Mavericks? It's that or her account has been hacked.

And just maybe your Mavericks is just hidden as mine was, and I can't recall exactly how I got it un-hidden, and I only managed to do that a few weeks ago as it was bugging me.

Click to expand...

Oh **! I thought Apple had completely yanked Lion, but I just checked my hidden purchases and there it was.

johnodd4 said:

You should have manually updated from apples own web site if you have updated from the app store and have just the slightest glitch in your internet connection speed it can mess with the update.

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????? What on earth are you talking about??? Sigh…

Update

The MBP is still running without catastrophic lock-ups, but there are slow spots (e.g., opening apps) and weirdnesses (e.g., not recognizing my work WiFi unless I ReStart). I'm not an expert, but it feels like this bad boy may be near the end of its cycle.

By the way, I want to thank everyone who posted in this thread. As always, I am grateful for your help!

Marrk said:

As I stated in Post 17 above, I only upgrade and update from the Apple App Store. I upgraded to Mavericks four or five months ago.

I am running OS 10.9.5. Have I confused the issue by referring to this as "Mavericks"? Isn't OS 10.9.5 called "Mavericks"?

Click to expand...

If you go to download it again, it will be under your Purchased TAB.. I still recommend sticking with Mavericks unless you purchase a new machine..

Another lock-up today, but this time different. The tack pad would move the cursor but would not click on anything. Keyboard would not do anything. I started to Force Quit out of programs. Could only do this one at a time (because I could not click). ReStart did nothing except leave me unable to log in to accounts. Power button Shut Down got everything going again.

Hmm.

Marrk said:

Another lock-up today, but this time different. The tack pad would move the cursor but would not click on anything. Keyboard would not do anything. I started to Force Quit out of programs. Could only do this one at a time (because I could not click). ReStart did nothing except leave me unable to log in to accounts. Power button Shut Down got everything going again.

Hmm.

Click to expand...

Marrk, quick question.. Have you checked your RAM? Can you run some memory checking software. Just so you can eliminate that as being a possible cause for your system to acting up. A bad RAM stick can do everything you talked about.

Exodist said:

Marrk, quick question.. Have you checked your RAM? Can you run some memory checking software. Just so you can eliminate that as being a possible cause for your system to acting up. A bad RAM stick can do everything you talked about.

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I agree with this 100%. If you've ever upgraded the RAM yourself, you may have used modules that aren't quite the rights ones, or maybe mixed/matched modules (always use exact matching modules).

You can test your RAM with the Apple Hardware Test.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201257

You can also use a 3rd party tool like Rember. However, this hasn't been updated in a long time. Rember is a front-end for Memtest OS X, which is a command line tool. That part has been more recently updated, and you likely could simply get ahold of the new version of Memtest OS X and manually swap out the embedded copy in Rember if you know how (it's trivial to do). However, that new version is not free (very cheap though).

There's also MemTest86. There's a free version, but this required booting from a CD or USB drive to run it. This should lead to a more thorough test though by ensuring as much RAM is free as possible.
MemTest86 - Download now!

Lifeisabeach said:

You can test your RAM with the Apple Hardware Test.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201257

Click to expand...

I Stut Down and Started Up while holding the D key. Nothing happened other than a normal start up. I tried again and got the same results. In other words, I never got to the diagnostic.

Is it possible that I am such a klutz that I screwed this up?

Marrk said:

I Stut Down and Started Up while holding the D key. Nothing happened other than a normal start up. I tried again and got the same results. In other words, I never got to the diagnostic.

Is it possible that I am such a klutz that I screwed this up?

Click to expand...

The AHT (Apple Hardware Test)…and holding down the "D" key on startup…only works with Apple computers that shipped with a 2 DVD set of gray discs. You would boot the computer with gray Disk #2…hold down the "D" key on startup…and run the AHT.

Apple computers have not shipped with these gray discs for a number of years now (pretty much when Apple went with download only OS versions). And the gray discs that did come with these older computers only worked on that computer model (each set of gray discs was model specific).

So if your computer is newer…and did not ship with the 2 gray disc set. Then running AHT by pressing the "D" key on startup is not an option (you have no gray discs to boot from).

- Nick

Thanks.

pigoo3 said:

The AHT (Apple Hardware Test)…and holding down the "D" key on startup…only works with Apple computers that shipped with a 2 DVD set of gray discs. You would boot the computer with gray Disk #2…hold down the "D" key on startup…and run the AHT.
… … ...
- Nick

Click to expand...

I was led to believe the same thing until I needed to run the AHT on my mid-late 2011 27" iMac that came with no disks. I even had to call Apple to get a SL 10.6.7 install disk which they sent me as three techs didn't think it would run. It does, but that's another story, but this iMac does boot to use the AHT using Command+D.

So I guess it depends, and it will either work or it won't, depending on Mac model may be.

Edit:
Just to add Apple's comment:
Important: If your Mac was released after June 2013, you will use Apple Diagnostics rather than Apple Hardware Test (AHT). See Using Apple Diagnostics for instructions.
Using Apple Hardware Test
http://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201257

Edit 2:
Now I'm beginning to wonder if I didn't use Option + D with a cold boot to access the Apple Diagnosis Test on my mid-late 2011 iMac. Hmmm…???

pm-r said:

I was led to believe the same thing until I needed to run the AHT on my mid-late 2011 27" iMac that came with no disks. I even had to call Apple to get a SL 10.6.7 install disk which they sent me as three techs didn't think it would run. It does, but that's another story, but this iMac does boot to use the AHT using Command+D.

So I guess it depends, and it will either work or it won't, depending on Mac model may be.

Click to expand...

Ohh…I am fully aware of this. I own three 2011 Apple computers (27" iMac, 13" MBP, 17" MBP). They can all run 10.6.x. Since I purchased all three of these used…sometimes things are missing. Luckily I did get the original box for all three…and I did luckily get the two gray disk set with the 17" MBP.

I would have thought that any computer that shipped with up to OS 10.6.x would have come with gray disks. Not sure why your mid-2011 didn't include them. Maybe Apple knew that they were going to discontinue including gray disks when the download only OS versions were started. And maybe Apple started early with Mid-2011 products (no gray discs).

I guess what we do know is…Apple computers sold in the last 3-4 years don't have gray disks…thus can't do the boot from gray disk #2 to run AHT.

pm-r said:

Edit:
Just to add Apple's comment:
Important: If your Mac was released after June 2013, you will use Apple Diagnostics rather than Apple Hardware Test (AHT). See Using Apple Diagnostics for instructions.
Using Apple Hardware Test
Using Apple Hardware Test - Apple Support

Click to expand...

Thanks for mentioning the Apple Diagnostics info. Very interesting. Of course only applies to computers sold after June-2013. Too bad Apple didn't start this sooner (for example available for ALL computers that didn't ship with gray disks).

- Nick

pigoo3 said:

Ohh…I am fully aware of this. I own three 2011 Apple computers (27" iMac, 13" MBP, 17" MBP). They can all run 10.6.x. Since I purchased all three of these used…sometimes things are missing. Luckily I did get the original box for all three…and I did luckily get the two gray disk set with the 17" MBP.

I would have thought that any computer that shipped with up to OS 10.6.x would have come with gray disks. Not sure why your mid-2011 didn't include them. Maybe Apple knew that they were going to discontinue including gray disks when the download only OS versions were started. And maybe Apple started early with Mid-2011 products (no gray discs).
… … ...
- Nick

Click to expand...

I seems that it also depends on the date the actual Mac was released, as my eldest son (an Authorized Apple Service/Dealer for Whitehorse and the Yukon) and the Apple Techs told me, that Mac models don't ship with their original or previous OS X versions after the release of a newer version.

In my case, my 27" 2011 iMac was released in September and OS X Lion was included as Mac OS X v10.7 "Lion" was released on July 20, 2011. So no SL 10.6.x was included, and even though I had SL 10.6.3 install disks, the early 2011 27" iMacs needed SL 10.6.7 as a minimum. Hence my request, and SL still gets used occasionally and I find it enjoyable to use without a lot of stuff missing as Mavericks does, even though it adds some other newer stuff.

So the bottoms line seems to be, one gets what OS X gets installed on their Mac depending on the date of the most recent OS X release date.

But maybe I'm getting a bit OT here…

pm-r said:

In my case, my 27" 2011 iMac was released in September and OS X Lion was included as Mac OS X v10.7 "Lion" was released on July 20, 2011. So no SL 10.6.x was included...

Click to expand...

What you're talking about is a special situation when the release of a new OS version and the purchase of a new computer semi-coincide…and Apple needs to deal with this special situation. Especially when we are talking about computer models that still shipped with the 2 gray disk set.

Apple (many times when this happens) has current stock on the shelves. In this situation the "stock on the shelves" would have had OS 10.6 on them…and then the new OS release happens. Since it's Apples policy to sell all new computers with the latest OS version…the "stock on the shelves" needs to be modified. And many times in the past…this was handled with a "Drop In Disk"…of the new OS. Or maybe in 10.7's case…a drop-in thumb drive (since back then Apple was selling 10.7 on a thumb drive rather than a disk).

Also. I think that you identified this iMac as a Mid/Late-2011 model (there were no Late-2011 27" iMac's). Mid-2011 iMac's (at least in the US were released in May, 2011)…before 10.7 was released in July. If according to your info your Mid-2011 iMac was released September, 2011. Maybe the Mid-2011 iMac's were released later in Canada (September, 2011 instead of May, 2011).

If your Mid-2011 iMac was purchased in September, 2011 or later (months after 10.7 was released). Then the "Apple distribution pipeline"…may have already updated all Mid-2011 iMac's with 10.7…and the 2 gray disk set was either removed from the boxes…or was never in the box.

- Nick

It's not an official iMac model name I use, Mid-late 2011 iMac, but it differentiates it for me from the earlier Mid-2011 iMacs.

And I don't think it's a "special situation" at all, but it is what Apple does.

My 2011 27" iMac was made according to chipmunk.nl:
Production week: 36 (September)
Model introduced: 2011
Factory: D2 (Assembled or Refurbished in the USA)

So being built after the release of Lion 10.7, SL 10.6.x wouldn't have even been attempted to install I'd guess.

Also probably another reason Apple sent me a compatible SL 10.6.7 install disk, as Apple was still advertising in their specs that SL would run on such a Mac. And one of the last to do so I'd say, and one of the main reasons I bought it.

So, as I said, the bottoms line seems to be, one gets what OS X version gets installed on their "new" Mac by Apple.

pm-r said:

And I don't think it's a "special situation" at all, but it is what Apple does.

Click to expand...

Of course it's a special situation. The "Drop In Disk" situation is definitely special…because of the inclusion of the "Drop In Disk". Apple employees at the stores literally either had to open the boxes of computers that are already in stock at the stores & "drop the disk" into the box…or hand the disk to a new owner. This is "special". Not an everyday occurrence.

These computers that are already in the "distribution pipeline" (already at the Apple Stores)…would still have 10.6 installed on them…and would have the 2 gray disks in the box.

Remember the three dates we are talking here:

- May, 2011 when Mid-2011 iMac's were first released
- July, 2011 when 10.7 was released
- September, 2011 when your iMac was built

Your iMac was built AFTER 10.7 was released. Which means that even though this model iMac originally came (when it was first released in May, 2011) with 10.6. The fact that it was built in September, 2011…it then came with 10.7 automatically installed. And because Apple did away with the gray disks after 10.6. Since your iMac didn't have 10.6 on it when purchased or built in September, 2011 (it had 10.7)…it never came with the gray disks. But as you mentioned…calling Apple and requesting the 10.6 gray disks was no problem.

pm-r said:

So being built after the release of Lion 10.7, SL 10.6.x wouldn't have even been attempted to install I'd guess.

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Exactly! Apple always sells computers with the newest version of the OS. And since your iMac was built after 10.7 was released…it came with 10.7 already installed.

pm-r said:

Also probably another reason Apple sent me a compatible SL 10.6.7 install disk, as Apple was still advertising in their specs that SL would run on such a Mac. And one of the last to do so I'd say, and one of the main reasons I bought it.

Click to expand...

Mid-2011 iMac's originally came (May, 2011 when the model was first released) with 10.6 installed. So any Mid-2011 iMac can run perfectly fine with 10.6.6 or later if an owner wanted it too). Even though (at some point after July, 2011)...when 10.7 was released…that new iMac would have shipped with 10.7.

This sort of situation is not uncommon. Whenever Apple releases a new OS version…there are always computers already in the distribution system. And since it's Apple's policy to sell new computers with the newest OS…something "special" needs to be done with the computers that are already in stock during the transition period.

The same exact thing would have happened when Apple released Yosemite. Computers already in stock at the Apple Stores would have had Mavericks installed on them. But what makes things easier for Apple now is (now that OS versions are downloadable)…vs. years ago when new computers came with OS disks.

Now (with downloadable OS's) Apple doesn't have to do any of the "special situation" stuff with the "drop in OS disks" anymore for the computers already in stock at the stores after a new OS is released. So when someone bought an Apple computer right after Yosemite was released…that computer (in the Apple store on the inventory shelves) would still have had Mavericks on them. So the store employee that sells this computer to this person simply has to explain to the customer to download & install Yosemite to upgrade the OS on their new computer.

Or maybe…all the computers in stock at an Apple Store during an OS transition period like this…would have their boxes opened…and each computer individually updated to the newest OS BEFORE these computers are even purchased by someone. So when they get home…the computer already has the latest & greatest on them.

So in this case. A new computer would come with Yosemite on it…even though it original shipped with Mavericks.

Maybe there's some confusion what "original shipped" means. Originally shipped means the date when a new computer model was originally released…NOT the date when an individual user gets their computer.

So for this Mid-2011 27" iMac. It "originally shipped" (in May, 2011 when this model was released) with 10.6.6. When you received your computer in September, 2011 (after 10.7 was released) it shipped with 10.7.

When we are talking about OS related discussions here on Mac-Forums…the "originally shipped" phrase always means when the computer model originally shipped (first released). Not the original shipping date that an individual customer gets their individual computer.

- Nick