15rMBP: Early2013 vs Late2013 vs '2014 Haswell/16GB refresh' hardware problems

Hi Guys

Kinda new here...

I am a PC guy but want to start my adventure with 15 inch rMBP.

I nearly bought 2.0/16GB/256GB but then I came across an article which highlighted some serious hardware problems that the Early2013 had namely:
-display panels burn in/ghosting (LG panel)/yellow tint(Samsung panel)
-fan issues (random activation, speeding and so on)
-graphics problems (freezing, crashing)
-battery life problems

I must say I was stunned how a machine which starts at $2000 can have so many problems.
I was originally thinking of buying high spec 15 inch one but I am really interested in Broadwell and it's fanless design (I hate fans) with possibly Beats speakers (at last some good quality speakers), maybe display bumped up to full 4K and new trackpad (what are your bets guys?).
It turns out it is not coming out for like a year now so decided on lowest spec 15 inch (maybe apart from adding 16GB) in the meantime end maybe change in one year time when the Broadwell is out on rMBPs and turns out to be a big innovation.

So the question is:
Do you know if the Late2013 (released in October 2013) has the same problems? Did Apple change panels while doing this refresh? Did they solve other hardware problems mentioned above? Where can I look for info on that please? I am really eager to research this matter and have no problem on spending time on it.
I am not looking to buy Early2013 model of course BUT if Late2013 has the same issues then...sorry Apple but I am not forking out $2k on a laptop which is not TOP QUALITY.
Ah yeah, and there is the Haswell refresh, which is going to be announced very shortly (tomorrow?). I don't care that much for CPU speed bump but 16GB in the base model is very welcome as I wanted that anyway. In my mind if this seems to be a very minor refresh then internal architecture and components will be very similar, if not the same, to the Late2013 model so...... will have to do with same bugs and issues.
So in the end I think that with a bit of luck I could pick up Late 2013 base 15 incher (only with RAM bumped to 16GB) for a good price as they will become 'old models' when the minor 'Haswell CPU bump' update is brought to the market....

So I just want to make sure the machine I am thinking of getting (Late 2013 15inch base with 16GB) will be free (hopefully entirely) of severe hardware problems of the Early2013 model.
If not then just buy the new one, minor Haswell refresh hoping they finally fixed it? IF (still) NOT..... I will have to wait for a major upgrade that will arrive with Broadwell next year......?

Please help..... I have worked so hard to get the money for that laptop...... If it arrives and it turns out it's not such a high quality machine I will be devasted....

thank you very much
greetinx

meekeen

ps. Can you also advise me if I am thinking correctly about Iris Pro or dedicated graphics card. At the beginning I was thinking of getting the much more expensive one with dedicated graphics as 'more power is better' but..... since I am so excited about Broadwell fanless/4k/Beats, and will be probably upgrading to that in a year or so when it's out, the 'low key approach' of getting cheapest 15 inch for now (since I will be selling it on in a year or so) is the right one to have?
PLUS
with Iris (i.e. without dedicated graphics) the battery should last longer and laptop should generate less heat (I hate when laptops generate a lot of heat) right?
Let me just say I won't be using my rMBP for extensive graphics apps or gaming.
Most of the time it's listening to music, browsing www (really a lot of tabs open at the same time) and, of course, DJing using Serato DJ.
Please help and thank you so much in advance guys.

meekeen said:

I nearly bought 2.0/16GB/256GB but then I came across an article which highlighted some serious hardware problems that the Early2013 had namely:
-display panels burn in/ghosting (LG panel)/yellow tint(Samsung panel)
-fan issues (random activation, speeding and so on)
-graphics problems (freezing, crashing)
-battery life problems

I must say I was stunned how a machine which starts at $2000 can have so many problems.

Click to expand...

I have not heard of all of these problems...and certainly not all four of the problems you mentioned. Can you please link the article that you read this from?

I'm sure we have plenty of members that own this specific model...and I don't recall all of those issues in one model computer.

meekeen said:

...so decided on lowest spec 15 inch (maybe apart from adding 16GB) in the meantime end maybe change in one year time when the Broadwell is out on rMBPs and turns out to be a big innovation.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a decent plan.

meekeen said:

So the question is:
Do you know if the Late2013 (released in October 2013) has the same problems? Did Apple change panels while doing this refresh? Did they solve other hardware problems mentioned above?

Click to expand...

I don't necessarily agree that the Early 2013 models had all those issues. Thus the Late 2013 models are fine as well.

meekeen said:

Ah yeah, and there is the Haswell refresh, which is going to be announced very shortly (tomorrow?).

Click to expand...

You'll know when we know. Apple doesn't usually announce this stuff ahead of it's actual release.

- Nick

p.s. If you REALLY think that the Early or Late 2013 MacBook Pro's have issues...and if you purchase one...then make sure you get extended Applecare (3 years).

Thanks Nick for your input

The article can be found here:
MacBook Pro with Retina display: Problems in every dimension | 9to5Mac

and of course there have been a class action lawsuit and so on....

Guys please comment if this is a viable information as I need to make an informed decision before I spend 2000 dollars on a new laptop....

It took me months to save this and worked so hard for it...... I just want to be really happy with such an expensive machine.....


And AppleCare extenstion? I am a bit sceptical about this.... in effect it's a warranty extension for year 2 and year 3..... not much more.... but they charge 349 notes for it? It sounds a bit like a joke tbh...
Plus, when you read all the stuff about 'planned obsolescence' one may suspect that those machines are being designed to start breaking after 3 years of usage..... but I may be wrong of course....

thanks all

meekeen said:

The article can be found here:
MacBook Pro with Retina display: Problems in every dimension | 9to5Mac

Click to expand...

Thanks for linking that article. I still say I haven't heard of that many problems in the Early & Late 2013 MacBook Pro's. We have a lot of members here at Mac-Forums. And if something is REALLY an issue...we usually hear about it over & over again. I just don't recall that sort of posting frequency.

meekeen said:

And AppleCare extenstion? I am a bit sceptical about this.... in effect it's a warranty extension for year 2 and year 3..... not much more.... but they charge 349 notes for it? It sounds a bit like a joke tbh...
Plus, when you read all the stuff about 'planned obsolescence' one may suspect that those machines are being designed to start breaking after 3 years of usage..... but I may be wrong of course....

Click to expand...

You're a new member here (and new to Apple computers)...so I'll cut you some slack about not knowing more about Applecare...and how we do recommend it frequently to members.

Apple care ONLY covers manufacturing defects...not anything accidental caused by the owner (drops, falls, liquid damage, etc.). But Apple has been known to treat many things as a "gray-area"...and fix/repair things that you wouldn't expect. Apple hasn't been #1 in customer service year after year for no reason!

All new & refurbished Apple computers automatically come with 12 months of Applecare. You are correct...extended Applecare is for years 2 & 3. But...if you purchase extended Applecare within the first 30 days (I think that it's the first 30 days)...you also get free phone support for the full 3 years as well (only get 90 days otherwise).

We generally recommend to folks to get exteneded Applecare if they really have hardware reliability concerns. Unlike the "Windows World"...replacement parts for Apple computers are very expensive (since Apple is the only supplier of the parts). When something like a replacement logic board is needed...in many cases the replacement logic board is so expensive...that a person (in many cases) is almost better off getting a whole new computer.

You mentioned having a lot of hardware concerns with Early & Late 2013 MacBook Pro's. If this is the case...that's why I recommended getting Extended Applecare.

Here are your three options as I see them:

1. Get an Early or Late 2013 MacBook Pro (with Extended Applecare)..since you have hardware durability concerns.
2. Get an older (before 2013) refurbished MacBook Pro from Apple (refurbished section).
3. Purchase a used MacBook Pro (before 2013).

Since it sounds like you REALLY prefer to get an upcoming model MacBook Pro (within the next 12-18 months). Maybe purchasing a used MacBook Pro would be better. Then you won't spend all of that hard earned cash now...and can save more of it for that MacBook Pro you really want (future).

Of course a refurbished Apple MacBook Pro would save you some money as well.

- Nick

Anandtech just reported that Apple just updated the entire MBP Retina line. Newer Haswell CPU's and more ram on lower models.

AnandTech | Apple Refreshes Retina Macbook Pro Lineup

That is weird that this issue is not very publicized among forum readers.
As the author of the article points out there has been a Apple Support Forum thread about this and........ it now has over 1,400,000 views.......
Here it is:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4034848?start=0&tstart=0

Thank you for clarification on AppleCare Nick.
I am not here to bash Apple..... quite the opposite. I have never had apple product and want to like my future laptop A LOT but I also want to be sure that when spending 2-2.5k usd on a laptop it will be flawless.....

If I read too much stuff on the internet and I am not sure about all these hardware issues then I guess I really will have to purchase extended Applecare.
This basically means that if anything goes wrong with my laptop hardwarewise during the 3 year period (I mean like hardware fault with anything not accidental damage or spills) I just send it to Apple for replacement or repair is that right please?

I don't wanna buy used mbp. Laptop is too personal thing for me so will get a new one. On the other hand, what is the best place online for selling/buying used mbps please. Come to sell my laptop in year or so I will at least know how and where to sell it.

Refurbs
I am not sure anymore. Once I read somewhere that it is Apple's refurb policy to change outer cases and install new batteries on all refurbs but I think this has since then changed?
As it mentions on the apple website that the laptop may have some cosmetic damage so they must have changed the policy?
If they did.....I'm not so sure tbh.... Getting $2k machine which has been preused (God knows for how long) doesn't sound right. Plus I would have to pay sales tax on that (I don't getting it from online retailers like BH or Adorama).
On the other hand I spoke to a lady at Apple and she told me once that sometimes 'refurbs' are actually 'overstock' and have never been used. So.......I was thinking I could get a 'refurb' and it comes and I see it has been used I can always send it back for a full refund, and if it looks like overstock then.... be happy.
What are your thoughts on that plz?

I am really enthusiastic about 2015 refresh and Broadwell coming but now I read a bit more I don't think Broadwell will be fanless machine when it's 15 inch version. So there may be a bit of disappointment with that big, 2015 refresh (I mean the screen currently is nearly 4K so even if they bump it to full 4K there won't be that much of a difference, maybe they will finally put some high quality speakers like Beats which would be nice, and there are rumors about new chassis being developed but c'mmon.... how much smaller than current rmbp can they even get.... won't be that noticable imho + reliability problems and flex issues and so on.....plus current machine is state of art design wise so they would have to come up with something spectacular to beat that by a long shot and want people like me to upgrade). Maybe I should get a proper full fat rmbp now then (I mean with discrete 750M instead of base Iris and bump up SSD capacity..... but it's so expensive now isn't it) ???
What do you guys think about what I said in my first post at the end with Iris vs dgpu 750M and it's influance on battery life and heat generation?
I will not be gaming often (if at all)..... just a lot of DJing, web browsing and listening to music..... does it make sense to pay $500 extra to jump to higher end version of 15 incher???

16GB ram
Guys, as we know the refresh has happened and now base 15 inch also has 16GB or RAM. I am bit tossed now as to which one to get cause late 2013 versions can be had for a good price online but they have to be 8GB or RAM.
How much important is RAM in the OS X world? Is it really important to have 16GB (like it is in PC world) ???
For example, how much on average does Mavericks itself eat up of RAM?
In PC world for example Win7 takes about 1GB for itself just to run.
Just curious and want to make an informed decision.

Thank you very much for all advise guys. Much appreciated.