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No antivirus is nothing more than fanboy idealism

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He ain't malinformed toMACsh just not handling the truth very well. Some Windows techies I know just cannot STAND even thinking about lack of viruses for Macs.
 

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Again, OS X ships with Anti Virus pre-installed. Any third party AV product is merely augmenting what is already there. Just because it isn't in your face, doesn't mean your system isn't protected. As usual, Apple,has it covered in a simple, elegant way.
 

pigoo3

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I'm thinking those Apple Security Updates must contain some pretty useful stuff!:)

- Nick
 
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Actually, IMO, I doubt that the current lack of OSX viruses has very little to do with Apple.

OSX has the foundation of BSD, which is derived (though completely rewritten for legal reasons) from the original Unix. That applies to Linux also, although it is a look alike clone of Unix rather than a true version. In the ‘70s, much if not most of the early Unixes were used by universities doing work for the Department of Defense. (Those were cold war days, which you are lucky if not old enough to remember.) As a result, Unix was designed almost from the start (but not at the absolute beginning) on top of a secure filesystem.

We still have that same (with enhancements) triad permission system today. The average OSX user doesn’t see it but the idea of Root/Group/User controls all files. And importantly, as far as Unix is concerned, everything is a file and therefore, everything lives under the blanket of that permission structure. It is simple, elegant and fairly easy to see any holes that develop.

When Windows started meeting the Internet, security was suddenly a requirement and it was grafted on, rather than built in, and it showed. NT was the first “secure” Windows and it was a nightmare to try to make secure. LSAs and SAMs and SRMs, Tokens and SIDs, ADEs and ACLs, Security Descriptors and Identifiers and so on. All you could do was your best and hope that nobody fell or poked through a hole somewhere. Lots of pizza cartons could stack up over the weekend while your crew tried to find out why the secretary on the third floor could save her letters over the top of the interrupt stack.

XP was better, but not much.

I can’t speak for Win7 and beyond, as I have never even seen them other than on the shelf of a store, but past experience with Redmond products does not give me the warm fuzzys.

Apple could certainly screw up, either through an honest mistake or careless code and open a hole(s) in the foundation security, since they control the code and do what they want under the BSD license. Hopefully, that won’t happen.

So…

In actual fact, we probably owe our lack of driveby malware to those programmers doing work for the US Government in those scary days of yore.

How scary is that, given what government programmers are doing today?
 
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We have been saying that since OS X.1 ten years ago. Hooray for Unix!

Windows 7 is quite a good platform ~ bearing in mind 2000, NT, Vista etc!
 
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For those who automatically dismiss anti-virus news or claims of increasing malware, can you explain to me why you do especially given the very basic fact that OS X is in no way some exception to the normal rules of OS design? I'm genuinely curious to know what the root of automatic dismissal is.

You asked Van, and my reasoning is I don't go to sites that may affect me, I don't open emails I'm not sure about, and I don't put in my Admin password if I'm not 110% sure why my machine is asking for it.
On top of that, I have Little Snitch running, and I know exactly whats coming into my machine. Does this make me complacent ? Yes. Does it make me feel threatened ? No. Do I feel safe ? Yes. Why ? Because I believe I know enough about whats going on with my OS, to know when something is up, and not right. I know of friends (running Windows) that have excellent Internet mind set, and they have had maybe 2 or 3 pieces of malware that has effected them.

Its all about discipline IMHO, and if you can get that down pat, then you should be safe enough from the 'baddies'.

I was trying to hack at this tendency for some to just wait for viruses to come and then deal with it instead of being informed users who do what they can to avoid it in the first place.

How can 1 be informed about something when there is nothing there to be informed about. Isn't that counter productive ??

Again, OS X ships with Anti Virus pre-installed. Any third party AV product is merely augmenting what is already there. Just because it isn't in your face, doesn't mean your system isn't protected. As usual, Apple,has it covered in a simple, elegant way.

And this is one good reason to download the Apps you want from the Mac App Store, being Sandboxed, makes it quite difficult to get into and wreak havoc.
As much as I think its a good idea, it really restricts some Apps, namely | Text Expander | Coda 2 | BBEdit from allowing some great features.
In Safari, I really think they should take the Option away from "Open 'safe' files after downloading" which would give you another level of security.

When Windows started meeting the Internet, security was suddenly a requirement and it was grafted on, rather than built in, and it showed. NT was the first “secure” Windows and it was a nightmare to try to make secure.

Im reading a short book of 46pages on iBook from the iBooks Store called the Billy Gates Affair - How Hackers at Microsoft and Google Revealed Their Massive Malware Operation, which I believe EVERYONE here should read, and IF its got even a little truth to it, then after reading this book, you can understand, WHY its so easy to be able to make virus/malware/and so on, for the Windows Operating System. If there are those holes in the system, for the hackers to easily enough get in there, then you can understand why, it would be easy enough, to circumvent those holes and drop so bad stuff onto your computer.

Honestly, after reading the book, it scared me, and I promise myself, until the day I die, I WILL NOT own a Windows computer for my everyday computing needs. Ever !!!!
 
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Again, OS X ships with Anti Virus pre-installed.
Interesting choice of words. ;)

Because I believe I know enough about whats going on with my OS, to know when something is up, and not right.
The reason that malware is successful is because it's hidden. I'm not suggesting that you have any (you're savvy enough to avoid things that'll like infect your machine) but what makes malware so prolific is its obscurity.

How can 1 be informed about something when there is nothing there to be informed about. Isn't that counter productive ??
It's not only about being informed but also being aware of possibilities and open to them. I don't know of any Mac viruses but I'm open to the idea that they're likely going to come.

And this is one good reason to download the Apps you want from the Mac App Store, being Sandboxed, makes it quite difficult to get into and wreak havoc.
Difficult, but not impossible (source).

In Safari, I really think they should take the Option away from "Open 'safe' files after downloading" which would give you another level of security.
This remains the biggest security flaw that still lingers.

Im reading a short book of 46pages on iBook from the iBooks Store called the Billy Gates Affair - How Hackers at Microsoft and Google Revealed Their Massive Malware Operation, which I believe EVERYONE here should read, and IF its got even a little truth to it, then after reading this book, you can understand, WHY its so easy to be able to make virus/malware/and so on, for the Windows Operating System. If there are those holes in the system, for the hackers to easily enough get in there, then you can understand why, it would be easy enough, to circumvent those holes and drop so bad stuff onto your computer.!
I think there's an equally important problem here for Apple though. While Windows might be less secure inherently, Apple is magnitudes less prepared to deal with malware than MS. The whole Flashback debacle is a perfect example of this. This is why I think we ought to take the stand that OS X is more secure now, not more secure (full stop).
 
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Hi Dave, indeed I oversaw it. Thomas Reed, the writer of that site, is a very conscientious person. And he follows most publications and forums (fora for the latinist, ha) and updates the site regularly. Have a good time.
Lex
 
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There's a "safety net" for just about anything…whether a likely event or an unlikely event…it's all about risk potential. If something is very likely…probably should do something about it. If something is unlikely (or very unlikely)…then the risk is not nearly as high.

If someone live's in a desert vs. a rainforest…there's a lot less need for an umbrella!;)

- Nick
unless you're a rainforest on vacation.
 
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I fell for that for years, and agree, ain't gonna happen.

I had a virus on my mac 15 years ago or more, but only once. I recently discovered OpenDNS.com as the ultimate compliment to Maverics built insecurity features. If you go to that website it's self explanatory, and although things like that usually involve me calling tech support, because I have ADHD, this took me less than 5 min. I learned of OpenDNS on Apple Community Support.

Don't be a bonehead: Run antivirus on your Mac | ZDNet

He admits that he has never caught or seen an OSX virus, but that he gladly spends big money to check for them. However, since this article is by an "internationally published technology author," then I guess I need to start looking.

He might have a point. I have never seen or heard of sharks in my East Texas neighborhood, but I sleep better at night knowing that I have a full chain link fence around our property. You can't be too safe around swimming pools.

No OS is bulletproof, but if someone's Mac gets infected by a real virus, the word will get around quick enough. Until then, I prefer to use my cycles for computing, rather than dragging the performance down.
 
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And only one. Classic OS 7, 8 and 9 did get the very odd virus and Peter Norton's AntiVirus was just great. He sold out to Symantec and the whole ship went down.
 

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IIRC Most of what was out there at the time fell into one of two categories;
1. Microsoft Office macro viruses which could come over from the PC side because the Mac and PC versions of the language were nearly identical.
2. There was one called nVIR A Virus floating around for a while that was essentially harmless IIRC.
 
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The reason that malware is successful is because it's hidden. I'm not suggesting that you have any (you're savvy enough to avoid things that'll like infect your machine) but what makes malware so prolific is its obscurity.

True. But if we are still to believe, we, the user still needs to give it permission to install, then I still feel confident. The day, someone tells me, there is a virus that can install itself, then I will be more open to the suggestion of a AV and looking out. But for any virus to hit my Machine/OS first is 1,000,00+:1 I think I will here about it first and then react.

It's not only about being informed but also being aware of possibilities and open to them. I don't know of any Mac viruses but I'm open to the idea that they're likely going to come.

Read above post

Difficult, but not impossible (source).
Even though you have given me a article that was written in 2011, its security flaw being open in the coreGraphics has now been fixed in Mavericks 10.9 (Source), which is another reason to try and update to the latest OS if at all possible, because with a new OS comes new Security fixes.
Although I did like the comment by
Anonymous Coward
So it is safe if hackers act like Apple wants but unsafe if they don't?

This remains the biggest security flaw that still lingers.

And has me buggered why they haven't closed this up, as they try and protect us against ourselves with a hidden 'Library', why not this ??

I think there's an equally important problem here for Apple though. While Windows might be less secure inherently, Apple is magnitudes less prepared to deal with malware than MS. The whole Flashback debacle is a perfect example of this. This is why I think we ought to take the stand that OS X is more secure now, not more secure (full stop).

Because they have the same attitude towards it as us, the user does. At the end of the day, being set on the u-Nix system, its still going to be harder to write one for the Mac OS, and hence the reason Hackers don't. I don't believe the crap about the % difference in how many of each system is out there, I just think they can't be bothered because its more difficult. FULL STOP ;)
 
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Just a thought.... I have wondered if the reason there are next to no viruses written for Mac is because the virus writers are using unix/linux OS based computers and prefer to avoid a possible backlash. Add to that the fact that Windows OS's making up the dominant market share, it provides a more target rich environment.

What do you think, any validity?

Lisa
 

pigoo3

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Add to that the fact that Windows OS's making up the dominant market share, it provides a more target rich environment.

I've considered this a valid/possible reason for a long time. But you would think after all these years…some Apple/Macintosh-hater would target us with something. We're talking 13+ years of Mac OS X.

- Nick
 
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I've considered this a valid/possible reason for a long time. But you would think after all these years…some Apple/Macintosh-hater would target us with something. We're talking 13+ years of Mac OS X.

Hummm...maybe Mac OS X is left alone because the Windows community is too busy fixing holes and catching viruses????

Actually, I still think Windows makes a more target rich environment. When malware started popping up many years ago, it was about harassing the user or gathering information - now it's all about making (stealing) money.

Lisa
 
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When I first came from Windows to OSX I made a deliberate decision NOT to run AV. AV was why I left Windows in the first place. I had just bought a new PC that on spec should have been much faster than my previous PC, but when I loaded the AV (Norton/Symantec as I recall) it bogged down to the point where it was no faster than the old one. I was in MicroCenter one day and saw an iMac running Windows in a window and was dropped in my tracks. I went in, asked if I could play with it, played with it for 15 minutes and bought one on the spot. I sold my old PC, installed Parallels and Windows as a VM on the iMac and never looked back. I transitioned from Windows to OSX in a few weeks and now have Windows for ONE application that has no OSX equivalent. The need for that one is going to go away next year and I plan to dump Windows completely.

OK, with that history, why did I say "deliberately?" Because I deliberated on it. I looked into the claim that there are no viruses (viri for latinists) and found it to be reasonably so. I didn't fall for the "Unix is safe by design" mantra because I remember the Morris worm. I was the IT manager at a large university at that time and many of our administrative computers used variants of Unix. Fortunately for us, we had closed the holes the worm used to do its thing, so we didn't get impacted, but I spent more time in the Dean of Administration and President's offices explaining how we were safe than I wanted to. So Unix isn't inherently safe, but it can be made so with certain settings. By now, the "default" for *nix is the safe setting so it takes some action to expose the vulnerabilities, but it's not "inherently" safe.

From what I can see, OSX is safer than anything in Windows at this time. And IMHO it's safe enough not to need to pay money or performance for all-the-time AV software. The malware I've seen (Java exploits, for example) are in third party software. I never had Java on my OSX boxes because I was well aware of Java's lousy security from long ago. Flash is another open door, so it's not on my OSX boxes either. I don't miss either of them. I do use Ghostery to knock down the annoy-ware and spyware that infests the web, but that's just because I don't see any need for Google to know every move I make. (Install it and see how many web sites report back to Google! Even this one has a Google analytic on it!) I am circumspect in how I use my machine. I don't open attachments from people I don't know, don't visit untrustworthy web sites, don't automatically say "Yes" to every request to install something on my machine.

Finally, when the first in-the-wild virus does appear for OSX, it will have to use some totally unexpected vector to be effective. And since it has to be unexpected, it will not be covered by any AV software that exists at that time. When that first virus appears, I will abandon the internet from OSX and shift over to my IOS devices until a fix appears. That, too, is a carefully thought out plan. Not perfect, but for now it's what I plan to do.

To be safe, be deliberate.
 

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