Portable USB drives and the Mac Pro

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plumpjack


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pigoo3 said:
I don't remember if you mentioned it...but how much ram does your Mac Pro have? Once I know...I'll throw some additional useful info your way.:)

- Nick
Click to expand...

More than once I've thought it might help to install additonal RAM but of course my understanding is limited so I've rather dismissed the idea. The prohibitive cost of buying more is one factor. Another however is that it came with 6GB in place all ready. I'd have thought that more than enough for normal purposes even today unless your pastime is video editing and such like. The machine holds up to 16GB according to Apple. Do you think I might need more then?
 
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plumpjack said:
More than once I've thought it might help to install additonal RAM but of course my understanding is limited so I've rather dismissed the idea. The prohibitive cost of buying more is one factor. Another however is that it came with 6GB in place all ready. I'd have thought that more than enough for normal purposes even today unless your pastime is video editing and such like. The machine holds up to 16GB according to Apple. Do you think I might need more then?
Click to expand...

I know that you have an "Early 2009" Mac Pro...what I don't know is if you have a quad-core or 8-core model.

This may come as a bit of a shock/surprise to you ...but the Early 2009 quad-core model actually max's out at 48gig of ram...and the Early 2009 8-core models max. out with 128gig of ram!!!:) But this may not matter...since as you mentioned ram can be a bit pricey.

6gig of ram isn't too bad. If you would have said 4gig...I would have said 8gig was better. But 6gig isn't too bad.:)

The reason why I asked how much ram you had was...the spinning beachballs/slowdowns are primarily related to three things:

- free space on hard drives
- amount of installed ram
- size of the swap file (can be found in Activity Monitor)

We covered earlier that having a minimum of 20% free on the hard drives will help prevent inefficiencies.

The more installed ram the better (up to a point). More ram helps with more info being retained in the ram. When the computer has too much info that it is shuttling around (and not enough ram to hold it all)...some of the info is sent to the hard drive. So more ram helps with this.

Size of the swap file. The swap file is related to the info the computer is swapping from ram to the hard drive...and back again. Over time...the swap file grows & grows & grows. The less ram there is...the faster the swap file grows. The more ram...the slower the swap file grows. Eventually the swap file can get very large...and cause slowdowns as well.

The size of the swap file can be found in the utility app "Activity Monitor". The rule of thumb I use is...when the swap file gets to be around 1.5gig or larger...I reboot the computer. When the computer is rebooted...the swap file size returns to zero (kind of like starting with a clean slate).:)

I have two computers that I mainly use on a daily basis. The one has 4gig of ram installed...the other has 8 gig of ram. The difference between the two is amazing in terms of how quickly the swap file size grows. With the 4gig computer I have to reboot maybe 1-2 times/week (because of the swap file size getting large). The computer with 8gig of ram...I can go 3-4 weeks without rebooting (sometimes longer).

But be aware...this all depends on how many hours/day someone is on the computer...and it depends on what is being done. I use my computers probably 10-12 hours/day sometimes. So someone who uses their computer a lot less will have differing results.

Hope this helps,:)

- Nick
 
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pigoo3 said:
I know that you have an "Early 2009" Mac Pro...what I don't know is if you have a quad-core or 8-core model.

This may come as a bit of a shock/surprise to you ...but the Early 2009 quad-core model actually max's out at 48gig of ram...and the Early 2009 8-core models max. out with 128gig of ram!!!:) But this may not matter...since as you mentioned ram can be a bit pricey.

6gig of ram isn't too bad. If you would have said 4gig...I would have said 8gig was better. But 6gig isn't too bad.:)

The reason why I asked how much ram you had was...the spinning beachballs/slowdowns are primarily related to three things:

- free space on hard drives
- amount of installed ram
- size of the swap file (can be found in Activity Monitor)

We covered earlier that having a minimum of 20% free on the hard drives will help prevent inefficiencies.

The more installed ram the better (up to a point). More ram helps with more info being retained in the ram. When the computer has too much info that it is shuttling around (and not enough ram to hold it all)...some of the info is sent to the hard drive. So more ram helps with this.

Size of the swap file. The swap file is related to the info the computer is swapping from ram to the hard drive...and back again. Over time...the swap file grows & grows & grows. The less ram there is...the faster the swap file grows. The more ram...the slower the swap file grows. Eventually the swap file can get very large...and cause slowdowns as well.

The size of the swap file can be found in the utility app "Activity Monitor". The rule of thumb I use is...when the swap file gets to be around 1.5gig or larger...I reboot the computer. When the computer is rebooted...the swap file size returns to zero (kind of like starting with a clean slate).:)

I have two computers that I mainly use on a daily basis. The one has 4gig of ram installed...the other has 8 gig of ram. The difference between the two is amazing in terms of how quickly the swap file size grows. With the 4gig computer I have to reboot maybe 1-2 times/week (because of the swap file size getting large). The computer with 8gig of ram...I can go 3-4 weeks without rebooting (sometimes longer).

But be aware...this all depends on how many hours/day someone is on the computer...and it depends on what is being done. I use my computers probably 10-12 hours/day sometimes. So someone who uses their computer a lot less will have differing results.

Hope this helps,:)

- Nick
Click to expand...

Yes it helps Nick. It helps a lot. Thank you. My 2009 is Quad-core. 48GB? Crikey. A phrase I came across quite a lot when I first bought a computer was 'You can never have too much RAM'. Ancillary to that was 'buy as much as you can afford'. I see what they mean. I've been pricing RAM in the last few days as a matter of fact. I may just follow up on it after this. Thanks again.

Is the capacity of the mid-2010 Mac Pro Westmere model just the same do you know?

[Edit - that's another Quad core by the way.]

[Edit 2 - I've updated my profile in view of your remarks, so thanks for that as well]
 
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plumpjack said:
A phrase I came across quite a lot when I first bought a computer was 'You can never have too much RAM'. Ancillary to that was 'buy as much as you can afford'.
Click to expand...

Yes…those are two very familiar computer purchasing maxims.:)

plumpjack said:
I've been pricing RAM in the last few days as a matter of fact. I may just follow up on it after this. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Ram for early Mac Pros (2006 and 2008 models was really expensive). In my opinion…ram for 2009 Mac Pro's is much more agreeable.

In case you didn't know…your 2009 Mac Pro has "triple channel memory". This means that ram (for maximum performance) should be installed in sets of 3 (3 matching sticks of ram). This is why you have 6gig of ram. You probably have 3 x 2gig sticks of ram installed.

So for the best performance…you would want to install ram in sets of three. Ram upgrade levels for you would be:

- 12gig (3 x 4gig sticks)
- 24gig (3 x 4gig sticks)
- 48gig (3 x 16gig sticks)

plumpjack said:
Is the capacity of the mid-2010 Mac Pro Westmere model just the same do you know?

[Edit - that's another Quad core by the way.]
Click to expand...

All 2010 Mac Pro quad-core models still had Nehalem cpu's. If by capacity you mean ram…yes…the 2010 quad-core Mac Pro's had the same ram capacity as the 2009 quad-core models (48gig of ram max.).

The 2010 Westmere Mac Pro's (6-core, 8-core, and 12-core). Max ram for these is 48gig, 128gig, and 128gig respectively.

We usually recommend two places to get ram. One place is called Macsales.com in the US (they do ship to the UK)…and Crucial.com (they have a UK warehouse).

- A 12gig ram upgrade would cost around $126.99 (3 x 4gig ram modules)
- A 24gig ram upgrade would be around $279.99 (3 x 8gig ram modules)

Prices may be different in the UK.

HTH,

- Nick

p.s. I actually used to have the 2009 2.66ghz 8-core Mac Pro…I had 12gig of ram in it.:)
 
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In case you didn't know…your 2009 Mac Pro has "triple channel memory". This means that ram (for maximum performance) should be installed in sets of 3 (3 matching sticks of ram). This is why you have 6gig of ram. You probably have 3 x 2gig sticks of ram installed.

So for the best performance…you would want to install ram in sets of three. Ram upgrade levels for you would be:

- 12gig (3 x 4gig sticks)
- 24gig (3 x 4gig sticks)
- 48gig (3 x 16gig sticks)
Click to expand...

This is useful information. And yes I do have the configuration you suggest. There are four slots. Not sure how it works but although three are occupied and only one slot free there must be room for more.

All 2010 Mac Pro quad-core models still had Nehalem cpu's.
Click to expand...

A knife to the heart. I got stiffed on a Mac 5.1 mid-2010 last March [about $1800]. I discovered the scam [untraceable serial numbers and so on] too late. It was sold as a Westmere model but apparently the lie extended even to the CPU. I don't trust myself to write more on the matter so I'll move along.

We usually recommend two places to get ram. One place is called Macsales.com in the US (they do ship to the UK)…and Crucial.com (they have a UK warehouse).

- A 12gig ram upgrade would cost around $126.99 (3 x 4gig ram modules)
- A 24gig ram upgrade would be around $279.99 (3 x 8gig ram modules)

Prices may be different in the UK.

HTH,
Click to expand...


This information helps a great deal Nick and I'm extremely grateful to you for providing it.
 
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plumpjack said:
I want additional storage for my Mac Pro and have been looking at portable drives – this one for example:

Samsung M3 1TB USB 3.0 Slimline Portable Hard Drive - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

These are 2.5” disks [not solid state]. They are a far cheaper alternative to pen drives in the capacities I need [it’ll store audio/video material rather than text files] but no-one can tell me whether it’s okay to use them as external storage on a [Mac Pro] desktop.

These are USB drives. There is no separate power source. I know 2.5” and 3.5” disks have different requirements in that regard [5v and 12v respectively if memory serves] but some Amazon buyers APPEAR to be using them successfully with Windows desktops. One buyer uses his with a G4.

I’m not technically savvy but I don’t see how a purely USB-powered device on a desktop could transfer and stream video files without hampering computer function in some way.

Advice appreciated.
Click to expand...
Your Mac Pro does not have USB 3, only USB 2 and that is slower than FireWire 800 and AV files tend to be large so performance is an issue. Also any USB 3 or 2 connected device will need CPU time to hand file transfers while FireWire connected or internal SATA drives don't have that overhead. I would suggest putting in one 3TB IBM drive into your last mounting bay, format the drive with Disk Utility and copy in the Finder or copy with Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper! your files from one of the smaller capacity drives and then shut down and remove the lower capacity drive and put in the second 3TB drive and repeat. The internal drives are fastest and Enterprise class, something you will not find in desktop or portable drives and of course take up no more desk space.
 
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By the way, while you could use the USB 2 1TB external drive with your Mac Pro, it's not going to be good performance and you already have purchased much better storage solution. Also if you are going to use one drive for backup, do not partition it into small volumes as Time Machine needs to backup to one big drive. In fact you can use two of those 3TB drives, set them up in Disk Utility as a spanned drive for a single 6TB mounted volume, or perhaps as a stripped array of 6TB, but while that is faster it is less safe.
 
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BradMacPro said:
Your Mac Pro does not have USB 3, only USB 2 and that is slower than FireWire 800 and AV files tend to be large so performance is an issue. Also any USB 3 or 2 connected device will need CPU time to hand file transfers while FireWire connected or internal SATA drives don't have that overhead. I would suggest putting in one 3TB IBM drive into your last mounting bay, format the drive with Disk Utility and copy in the Finder or copy with Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper! your files from one of the smaller capacity drives and then shut down and remove the lower capacity drive and put in the second 3TB drive and repeat. The internal drives are fastest and Enterprise class, something you will not find in desktop or portable drives and of course take up no more desk space.
Click to expand...

Thanks Brad. I'm sure you're right about the best solution but if you've worked your way through the whole thread you'll know I long ago planned to replace drives and fill empty drive bays and never quite got round to it - hence the lazy devil's approach I wanted advice on here before I pushed ahead with it. The Samsung hasn't despatched yet but I'm resolved to give it a try. I know it'll be slower but with the files in place, and since it won't be a 'working disk' as it were, I'm hopeful it'll function acceptably even if the performance isn't anything spectacular. This is where passivity leads. The lazy man's route to everything. There's a moral in there somewhere but I never seem to learn the lesson. Thanks for posting.


BradMacPro said:
By the way, while you could use the USB 2 1TB external drive with your Mac Pro, it's not going to be good performance and you already have purchased much better storage solution. Also if you are going to use one drive for backup, do not partition it into small volumes as Time Machine needs to backup to one big drive. In fact you can use two of those 3TB drives, set them up in Disk Utility as a spanned drive for a single 6TB mounted volume, or perhaps as a stripped array of 6TB, but while that is faster it is less safe.
Click to expand...

I don't use Time Machine Brad [or iTunes, or Logic or iLife]. I just make copies to each of my three external drives. If the OS goes south I'll simply reinstall. Everything I want to preserve is on the externals anyway. I'm sure it could be done more efficiently but, once again, I settled for the lazy man's way so that's where I am. Thanks for posting.
 
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pigoo3 said:
So for the best performance…you would want to install ram in sets of three. Ram upgrade levels for you would be:

- 12gig (3 x 4gig sticks)
- 24gig (3 x 4gig sticks)
- 48gig (3 x 16gig sticks)
Click to expand...

I wanted to make a correction…there was an error in the 24gig configuration. It should look like this:

- 12gig (3 x 4gig sticks)
- 24gig (3 x 8gig sticks)
- 48gig (3 x 16gig sticks)

Sorry for any confusion.

* Nick
 
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pigoo3 said:
I wanted to make a correction…there was an error in the 24gig configuration. It should look like this:

- 12gig (3 x 4gig sticks)
- 24gig (3 x 8gig sticks)
- 48gig (3 x 16gig sticks)

Sorry for any confusion.

* Nick
Click to expand...

Correction appreciated [I did wonder]. I'm still reeling from the idea of 48 gigs of RAM to be honest. Anyway thanks for all your hard work Nick. I'm grateful.

Have a good weekend.
 
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Hey, i have the exact same drive, i bought it almost two years ago and have been using it as my media drive (movies, home videos, photos, etc..) and it a beauty. The USB 3.0 has me transferring Gb large file in a matter of seconds. This was my first USB 3.0 device and i was usrprised how fast the technology is! Neverk going back to USB 2.0 again! Lol
Anyway i am using it as a secondary iphoto library too, i just connect it to my macbookpro hold the alt key and open iphoto, not even a min later i have my 35Gb iphoto library in front of me.

I am also using an external USB 3.0 2TB 2.5" hd as my time machine drive.

So in the end, i say it is a good choice ;)
 
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plumpjack said:
There are four slots. Not sure how it works but although three are occupied and only one slot free there must be room for more.
Click to expand...

I wanted to reply to this. Yes…it is sort of weird/confusing. Normally to max. out the ram…all ram slots would be full. The 2009-2012 Mac Pro's have the unusual "triple channel memory"…which as far as I know…are the only Mac models to date to do this.

So with your 2009 Mac Pro (with 4 ram slots) for the best performance…only three of the slots are filled with 3 matching ram modules. If the 4th ram slot is filled…then there is a small performance penalty. How much this "penalty" is…I'm not sure.

As I mentioned…I used to have a 2009 8-core Mac Pro…and it had 8 ram slots. But to adhere to the "triple channel memory" rule…only 6 ram slots were filled (two vacant).

So with your computer…for the best ram performance…the total ram options are 6gig, 12gig, 24gig, or 48gig. But…if all 4 ram slots were filled…then these ram upgrade options would be possible:

- 8gig (4 x 2gig)
- 16gig (4 x 4gig)
- 32gig (4 x 8gig)

Since the max ram is supposed to be 48gig…I don't think (I'm not 100% sure) that doing 4 x 16gig = 64gig is possible.

With the 8-core 2009 Mac Pro models (with 8 ram slots)…max ram is 128gig (8 x 16gig). So with 4 ram slots like your Mac Pro…it would seem that 4 x 16gig = 64gig would be possible. But all of the data I've seen says that max. ram for the quad-core 2009/2010 Mac Pro's is 48gig.

I'm guessing much of this "max ram info" is mostly an academic discussion. Since not many of us need that much ram…or can afford it!;)

You have a great weekend as well!:)

- Nick
 
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soulnchain said:
Hey, i have the exact same drive, i bought it almost two years ago and have been using it as my media drive (movies, home videos, photos, etc..) and it a beauty. The USB 3.0 has me transferring Gb large file in a matter of seconds. This was my first USB 3.0 device and i was usrprised how fast the technology is! Neverk going back to USB 2.0 again! Lol
Anyway i am using it as a secondary iphoto library too, i just connect it to my macbookpro hold the alt key and open iphoto, not even a min later i have my 35Gb iphoto library in front of me.

I am also using an external USB 3.0 2TB 2.5" hd as my time machine drive.

So in the end, i say it is a good choice ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting soulnchain. I'm reassured by your experience even if it's with a laptop and not a desktop. It's the desktop possibilities and limitations that concerned me really but I appreciate the encouragement. Thank you!


pigoo3 said:
So with your 2009 Mac Pro (with 4 ram slots) for the best performance…only three of the slots are filled with 3 matching ram modules. If the 4th ram slot is filled…then there is a small performance penalty. How much this "penalty" is…I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

So if I seek to optimize performance by leaving a free slot I could still [theoretically anyway] get 48 gigs via 3 x 16?
 
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plumpjack said:
So if I seek to optimize performance by leaving a free slot I could still [theoretically anyway] get 48 gigs via 3 x 16?
Click to expand...

You got it exactly!:) Just need $629.99 US (maybe more at UK prices) for the 3 x 16gig!;)

- Nick
 
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pigoo3 said:
You got it exactly!:) Just need $629.99 US (maybe more at UK prices) for the 3 x 16gig!;)

- Nick
Click to expand...

I just checked Amazon England [sorry I don't acknowledge 'yoo-kay']. The cheapest 16 GB memory card is more than £146. Multiplied three times that's fractionally under £440.00 or approximately $752.00 [before shipping from Germany].

I think I'll skip the ocean-going yacht and keep paddling my canoe...... :)

Time also that I stopped picking your brains and let you go. We got a bit off-topic in the end but the advice you've given throughout has been invaluable and I just want to repeat before we close how very much I appreciate your assistance on this thread. Thank you Nick.
 
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plumpjack said:
I just checked Amazon England [sorry I don't acknowledge 'yoo-kay']. The cheapest 16 GB memory card is more than £146. Multiplied three times that's fractionally under £440.00 or approximately $752.00 [before shipping from Germany]
Click to expand...

If, and when, you decide to go for a memory upgrade, do not be tempted by cheap ones, from Amazon or eBay - not worth the trouble. As we don't have OWC over here, even though they do ship worldwide from the US, the only real choice is Crucial - if I'm not mistaken, the linked kit would fit your Mac Pro and it's under £112 delivered for a 12GB (4GBx3)
And 24GB (8GBx3) is about £208, which is not bad for the huge amount of top quality memory, in my opinion.
 
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MBP17•David;1592568 said:
If, and when, you decide to go for a memory upgrade, do not be tempted by cheap ones, from Amazon or eBay - not worth the trouble. As we don't have OWC over here, even though they do ship worldwide from the US, the only real choice is - if I'm not mistaken, the linked kit would fit your Mac Pro and it's under £112 delivered for a 12GB (4GBx3)
And 24GB (8GBx3) is about £208, which is not bad for the huge amount of top quality memory, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting those UK prices.:) It's great that someone in the UK can verify things 100%.

Yeah…I know that Crucial is probably the best local choice for ram. I only mentioned OWC as an extra choice just in case. I know shipping from the US...and UK VAT push the price up a bunch.

The 12gig and 24gig prices are certainly more reasonable/doable. 16gig ram modules are super expensive…making a 48gig (3 x 16gig) upgrade pretty darn pricey!!

Thanks again,:)

- Nick
 
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MBP17•David said:
If, and when, you decide to go for a memory upgrade, do not be tempted by cheap ones, from Amazon or eBay - not worth the trouble. As we don't have OWC over here, even though they do ship worldwide from the US, the only real choice is Crucial - if I'm not mistaken, the linked kit would fit your Mac Pro and it's under £112 delivered for a 12GB (4GBx3). And 24GB (8GBx3) is about £208, which is not bad for the huge amount of top quality memory, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

That's really useful information David. Nick recommends Crucial on one of his other threads. I also notice the link you give deals in multiples of three, which tallies neatly with his advice about leaving a slot free to optimize performance. Packs of two and four seem to be the rule on Amazon. I saw myself buying more than I needed so it's good to know I don't have to. Thanks for posting. Much appreciated.
 
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24GB kit (8GBx3) DDR3 PC3-8500 Registered ECC 1.35V 1024Meg x 72 | Crucial UK GBP Store Organization

This is a link to 24GB [3. x 8GB] kit. There seems to be a big fall off in choice depending on whether I check the 'Unbuffered' box or not. Does the memory have to be Unbuffered [whatever that means] and is this a legitimate option or am I looking at the wrong types here? Thanks.

EDIT - Here's what seems like the equivalent on OWC at $264 [£154]. A lot cheaper, though I don't know if you'd be liable for import duties, VAT and the like.:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other+World+Computing/1333D3X8M24K/
 
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Nick, you're absolutely right about shipping and VAT adding quite a substantial amount on top of US price.

I really wish OWC would open a UK branch :)

I was just reading the advice about replacement battery in another thread, and for my model, the $109 cost turns into $190, and that assuming there's no duty on it, which I am not entirely positive about (there's no duty on computer items, but it's a part, so who knows). That makes it not much cheaper, than Apple UK £170 replacement cost ...

plumpjack, I've used Crucial memory and SSDs for years, consistently problem-free, so can join Nick in recommending them, without any reservation.

The OWC memory kit, you mentioned, will not be subject to import duties, but VAT will be charged on full price (cost + shipping), so with the cheapest shipping offered, at $4.99 (which is excellent, by the way), your total will be $325 or £190, so is still cheaper than Crucial here - certainly something to think about. ;D
 

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