Apple sealed-box designs and why they suck

Exodist said:

Hey did you notice he was "impressed" on how they squeezed all that into the case.. LMAO guess he ever seen the new Mac Pro..

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Haha yeah . . . . It was quite enjoyable to see him so excited about the product. And here is the Mac Pro . . Lol

Exodist said:

I agree they would not. However I wouldn't want a mac mini tower. Something still close to say the Mac Mini size, just with the option to add a low profile PCI express card or two.

But I can tell you one reason they may be trying this is due to users buying base models then upgrading ram and drives themselves and saving a lot of money. Where as apple charges a heavy price for upgrading their models off their website, up to 3 times more then the upgrade would cost doing it yourself.

That said, if apple would cut in half their pricing when upgrading their onine base models. I would be more inclined to turn the other cheek per se. But going from 4GB to 16GB costing you $400 more in a Mac Mini.. Seriously this is the issue. 16GB of RAM from Crucial is only about $160 depending on the market at retail cost. So they are making easy $300 more bucks off someone when they need more ram over the base model. Then their is the Hard drive issue. I don't see them as bad as the RAM pricing, but they could be a tad cheaper. CPU also is one of those they push the pricing little to steep on. Most base model i5s are about $200 USD, while a i7 of close clock speed is about $50 more. However Apple charges you a full $200 USD to go from a 3.4GHz i5 to a 3.5GHz i7.. Shameful..

Now I don't mind paying a premium for a Mac, they truly are quality products. But just don't like being price gouged on upgrading a base model.

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That is also my feeling regarding upgrades where Apple are concerned. You are quoting retail prices, but Apple buy those components in at a far lower price than you or I can buy them so their profit mark up is even greater, which sucks even more!

TattooedMac said:

This is what you call upgradable I love the idea that everything has a latch, and is easily taken out, but then you still have work to do, to take the components out of those latched pieces.
BUT did you see the size of that thing ie: thickness ?? Lol
I know this is what Apple was moving away from, but i really think they can take something away from that machine.
2 latches on the side and the whole things opens up with a Air Piston to hold it up . . But sadly, we know the iMac is never going to become that

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Now how difficult would it be for Apple to incorporate this idea into their product. ****, forgot, this would stop them being able to rip us off with their upgrade prices.

strandcos said:

I ..........and I have to spend hours trying to keep Linux working.

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This comment struck me. How can someone not keep linux working? I been using since '98 and started out on Slack7, I remember compiling GIMP 1.x from source and running it inside Windowmaker and using GTK1 for rendering.

Point being, a properly or even a half assed install of Linux will run for an un limited amount of time without any issues unless there is a hardware problem or user generated issues.

So in other words, if your hardware is good and your running linux. Only reason it should screw up is if the user (looks around) is screwing it up. This is pretty much the same of OSX also..

So just pointing this out.. Sorry for the rant..

TattooedMac said:

This is what you call upgradable I love the idea that everything has a latch, and is easily taken out, but then you still have work to do, to take the components out of those latched pieces.
BUT did you see the size of that thing ie: thickness ?? Lol
I know this is what Apple was moving away from, but i really think they can take something away from that machine.
2 latches on the side and the whole things opens up with a Air Piston to hold it up . . But sadly, we know the iMac is never going to become that

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True but sure a nice design for people who like to work with the innards of their system!!

But another point in the thickness, a desktop computer does not need to be 1/10" thin either! Grin

strandcos said:

The Nexus 1 (LG-C800G) had a changeable battery and an SD card slot, the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 have neither, and worse, the last 2 use a cut down sim card which makes it difficult to buy a temporary sim card when traveling.

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You're certainly right about the new designs limiting changes to the hardware but those phones use micro SIM cards which are pretty standard now. What carriers are you trying to get SIMs from that don't offer micro sized ones?

TattooedMac said:

This is what you call upgradable I love the idea that everything has a latch, and is easily taken out, but then you still have work to do, to take the components out of those latched pieces.
BUT did you see the size of that thing ie: thickness ?? Lol
I know this is what Apple was moving away from, but i really think they can take something away from that machine.
2 latches on the side and the whole things opens up with a Air Piston to hold it up . . But sadly, we know the iMac is never going to become that

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That sounds like a good idea in which Apple should consider when supporting ur cause, but speaking as a consumer, I won't be paying that much for a PC and if I built mine myself, I would get more bang for my buck and it would still be upgradeable. And unless consumers petition a cause for action (i.e. stop buying Apple products) then it's slim to none change on Apple's part will ever occur.

Exodist said:

So in other words, if your hardware is good and your running linux. Only reason it should screw up is if the user (looks around) is screwing it up. This is pretty much the same of OSX also..

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My experience with Linux is that it's quite fragile. Yes, if everything is configured right and you don't mess with it from defaults, it's rock solid. However, if you change the wrong setting (even in the GUI), it can break badly enough that you're forced to edit config files at the command line. I've never had that happen with OS X. I've had it happen repeatedly in Linux.

It's one of the many reasons that Linux will never have a real marketshare outside of the data center.

urbanman2004 said:

First off, u take urself way to seriously.

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Because I resisted your use of the phrase "tree hugger"? I'm not trying to be combative - I'm just trying to figure out how you're reading what I'm saying (it looks as if you think I'm angry, which I'm certainly not).

urbanman2004 said:

Second, u can advocate for change by bringing upon self awareness to both the industry as well as the consumers (i.e. petition) but unless ur gonna commit ur ideas into action then all have disputed so far including ur stand for on the issue will have little effect to ur cause.

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I'll admit that I'm not really sure what you're saying here but it sounds like you are once again putting the onus entirely on the consumer, disconnecting Apple from the issue. Yes, the consumer may need to be the catalyst but they can't be the only actors.

cwa107 said:

My experience with Linux is that it's quite fragile. Yes, if everything is configured right and you don't mess with it from defaults, it's rock solid. However, if you change the wrong setting (even in the GUI), it can break badly enough that you're forced to edit config files at the command line. I've never had that happen with OS X. I've had it happen repeatedly in Linux.

It's one of the many reasons that Linux will never have a real marketshare outside of the data center.

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That makes me feel better . . .

The reason I switched to Mac was I didn't want the Linux upkeep. I'd been running it as my home OS instead of windows, and though it was a big improvement to me over Windows, I was looking for a packaged solution. OS X had so far been just that.

RavingMac said:

That makes me feel better . . .

The reason I switched to Mac was I didn't want the Linux upkeep. I'd been running it as my home OS instead of windows, and though it was a big improvement to me over Windows, I was looking for a packaged solution. OS X had so far been just that.

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Exactly.

Linux's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. Variety - or rather, too much of it. Nothing is standard in the Linux world and you can have a nearly infinite number of kernels matched up with window managers, matched up with other fundamental components. It can be so bad that one can have mastery of one Linux box, only to move over to another and be lost.

It doesn't help that the community can be quite polarized about underlying systems. Oh, the debates people have (look at the debate around Wayland for example).

I agree with much of what has been said about Linux - variety is a tremendous strength until you try to know and apply it all to different contexts. What works on a Debian box isn't going to work in exactly the same way on a Fedora box. If you stick with one lineage (so, Debian and its derivatives), you're probably fine. Otherwise, you're going to have to be quick on the fly when trying to solve issues.

vansmith said:

Because I resisted your use of the phrase "tree hugger"? I'm not trying to be combative - I'm just trying to figure out how you're reading what I'm saying (it looks as if you think I'm angry, which I'm certainly not).

I'll admit that I'm not really sure what you're saying here but it sounds like you are once again putting the onus entirely on the consumer, disconnecting Apple from the issue. Yes, the consumer may need to be the catalyst but they can't be the only actors.

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Correction:
Unless you are going to commit your ideas into action (i.e. petition) then all that you have disputed so far including what you stand for on the issue will have little effect to your cause.
Long story short, complaining about it on a forum will not get heard by Apple. Start somewhere by doing a petition on change.org or something on those lines.

urbanman2004 said:

And unless consumers petition a cause for action (i.e. stop buying Apple products) then it's slim to none change on Apple's part will ever occur.

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urbanman2004 said:

Correction:
Unless you are going to commit your ideas into action (i.e. petition) then all that you have disputed so far including what you stand for on the issue will have little effect to your cause.
Long story short, complaining about it on a forum will not get heard by Apple. Start somewhere by doing a petition on change.org or something on those lines.

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You got it all wrong, me thinks. First, i won't stop buying the Apple PC, and 2nd petition Apple doesn't get things done. Complaining by BULK does. Take FCP X and the latest iWorks for example.
Apple didn't change them, or bring back feature because someone started a petition at change.org (unless you can link me??), its by bulk amount of people complaining in forums such as this one, and the uproar on twitter that gets things done. As i said, Apple DIDNT change FCP and the 2.2 iWorks update because of petition, it was because so many people complained about it online.

TattooedMac said:

You got it all wrong, me thinks. First, i won't stop buying the Apple PC, and 2nd petition Apple doesn't get things done. Complaining by BULK does. Take FCP X and the latest iWorks for example.
Apple didn't change them, or bring back feature because someone started a petition at change.org (unless you can link me??), its by bulk amount of people complaining in forums such as this one, and the uproar on twitter that gets things done. As i said, Apple DIDNT change FCP and the 2.2 iWorks update because of petition, it was because so many people complained about it online.

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Then why don't u gather all of your friends and complain online a/b the damage Apple is causing u then wait and maybe, maybe Apple will hear your cry to cater to your dire requests.

cwa107 said:

My experience with Linux is that it's quite fragile. Yes, if everything is configured right and you don't mess with it from defaults, it's rock solid. However, if you change the wrong setting (even in the GUI), it can break badly enough that you're forced to edit config files at the command line. I've never had that happen with OS X. I've had it happen repeatedly in Linux.
..

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Lets evaluate this a little. While some settings back a few (10+) years back, did not have review/fallback modes like for display settings. But those have changed to where they are the same now as you would see on OSX or Windows.

Now Linux doesn't stop anyone from hopping over to root and removing or manually editing system files. The OS assumes the user knows what s/he is doing. But lets be honest, I can hop on the terminal and log in as admin and completely trash my OSX install also. So we can't blame the operating system for user incompetence. I know that may sounds harsh but it really isn't.

However that said, I will admit that some versions of Linux back years ago with RPM based package managers like SuSE, were without a doubt the most pain in the butt systems to install new software without getting a dozen package dependency issues.
This is one of the things that lead me to using Debian and then to Ubuntu (then back to Debian) as debian based package managers (*.deb) were very much more solid built and user friendly. A user would have to go to great effort to screw something up.

But point being, after the system is setup and everything is installed. It should run like an appliance, never slow down, never decide to do something crazy, always be consistent. Unless there is a hardware failure. I have actually ran Linux on my desktop for 9 solid months without a single reboot. And only rebooted it then due to an extended power outage.

But I understand there are what I call "lesser quality or experimental distro's out there" that can make a new users experience a little less then pleasant. Just wanted to share that they are all not like that..

I actually miss running Debian.

urbanman2004 said:

Then why don't u gather all of your friends and complain online a/b the damage Apple is causing u then wait and maybe, maybe Apple will hear your cry to cater to your dire requests.

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Because not one, in all my posts here, have i complained about the sealed box. Im in here conversing with others, but if you read all my posts, I haven't actually complained about it. Im quite happy with were Apple are. Ill be buying Ext Apple Care when my purchase comes up for a iMac, so i don't have to rally any troops.

Very well stated, cwa107. I agree wholeheartedly that we need to pay more attention to our finite resources. Look at aluminum. We take it for granted, but it's a pretty amazing, maybe some would say magical element, if you think about it.

And what do we do? We use it to wrap leftovers and then throw it away when we're done. We use great big heaps of it to design electronics casings and pans, then throw it away instead of recycling it.

I've often been frustrated by the lack of easy recycling for steel pans. There's a lot of good material going to waste because we as a society aren't much interested in the issue (or it's not profitable enough).

I would love to milk extra life out of my devices. I still have 1st and 2nd gen iPod Touch, a second gen Nano, and iphone 4. But the forced obsolescence from Apple (pretty much always discontinuing ios support after 2 years... or making OS upgrades so slow as to be unusable) often ruins their usefulness.

Good luck getting apps on pre iOS 4 devices. I don't think you can anymore. In the software realm, I would love it if manufacturers opened their devices up for root/jailbreak once they were past their prime.

goatmonger said:

Very well stated, cwa107. I agree wholeheartedly that we need to pay more attention to our finite resources. Look at aluminum. We take it for granted, but it's a pretty amazing, maybe some would say magical element, if you think about it.

And what do we do? We use it to wrap leftovers and then throw it away when we're done. We use great big heaps of it to design electronics casings and pans, then throw it away instead of recycling it.

I've often been frustrated by the lack of easy recycling for steel pans. There's a lot of good material going to waste because we as a society aren't much interested in the issue (or it's not profitable enough).

I would love to milk extra life out of my devices. I still have 1st and 2nd gen iPod Touch, a second gen Nano, and iphone 4. But the forced obsolescence from Apple (pretty much always discontinuing ios support after 2 years... or making OS upgrades so slow as to be unusable) often ruins their usefulness.

Good luck getting apps on pre iOS 4 devices. I don't think you can anymore. In the software realm, I would love it if manufacturers opened their devices up for root/jailbreak once they were past their prime.

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so much for pipe dreams...

strandcos said:

I agree with the UNIX users, if UNIX goes, so do I. Note also Google does the same thing hardware wise: The Nexus 1 (LG-C800G) had a changeable battery and an SD card slot, the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 have neither, and worse, the last 2 use a cut down sim card which makes it difficult to buy a temporary sim card when traveling. I broke my Nexus 4 and went back to the one and am glad I did even tho Google will not update OS for it. Both companies are making their products more sealed and locked in and less useful for users. I, too, fear the day when Apple dumps UNIX and I have to spend hours trying to keep Linux working.

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My wife and I like Linux, she is running Linux Mint 9 ( has been since it was in its testing stage) and has not had to "fiddle" with it at all, by the way she is most definitely not computer literate by any means. The Dell she is using was our daughter's until the hard drive died I replaced the HD but refused to re-install windows Vista opting instead on Mint. My point being if you cannot keep a Linux based operating system running, you are obviously trying to do things it is not intended to do, or you need to pick up a couple of Linux for Dummies books ;P

My present Laptop is a 2006 MBP in case anyone is interested and is still going strong with Snow Leopard and do not really see upgrading for a bit yet. If it ain't broke don't throw it out.