Apple sealed-box designs and why they suck

chscag said:

If you want that machine, buy it now. The next refresh of the MacBook Pro will be later this year and I'm betting the non retina 13" MBP will no longer be sold by Apple.

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vansmith said:

I'd go as far as to put money on that..

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Same here..


Although what has stopped me from purchasing the MBP was the lack of a 17" model..
Its not I am concerned as much about how many pixels we can squeeze onto the screen, its just some of us are blind.. I need bigger fonts to prevent migraine headaches. This is why I don't mind getting 1080p monitors over the nicer IPS ones form Apple or Asus. Text to small for me..

Seriously didn't Apple used to have these??

robinpow said:

Free OS that died with OS7.

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How is iOS 7 not free ?? Mavericks is even free so this is just downright BS to me.

robinpow said:

However what pisses me off right now, is dropping support for older OSs. My first generation iPad were doing well together, until I could no longer update. While I had thought about getting a new one, I didn't like the idea of being forced to buy a new one. So now I use my new iPad Air, but my first generation is still here and works great… other than it can't run a couple of apps I enjoy.

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No-one is forcing you to upgrade at all. Does the iPad do what it did when you first got it ?? I would say yes, so that means its still a good device. As i said, no-one is forcing you to upgrade to anything.

gnryrob said:

I see many references to "tell Apple what you think". But how do you do that? Where do you send a message that gets the attention of anyone who can affect Apple's course of actions?

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In boards like this. Even though these boards are not Apple, they do know when a certain thing isn't right. Take FCP X for example, and the uproar of it being worse than the earlier version, or just lately the new iWorks Apps, and not being compatible with iWorks '09' and they then promised within 6months a fix, and only 9 weeks later they release a 2.2update.
Apple do listen.

gnryrob said:

Even when Apple responds to major uproars, like SAVE AS, they still did not get it right.
In my opinion, Apple execs have lost their way, making updates that are just to be able to say "we updated our stuff and it's incredible".
End of rant.
Rob

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Why isn't SAVE AS right ?? Whats the problem with holding the ⌥ key down ??
And i don't think the Exec's have lost their way, at the end of the day, there is only 1 Steve Jobs, and no-one on this earth has the visions, and ideas he had, so they are doing what they know, albeit, not the best, but at least they do listen to the customers.

@Gnryrob. You can email Tim Cook. I do believe the information is on Apples website somewhere. Also another more common way is to submit bug reports via apples website. Even if its a new feature you would like to see. The developers will look through them and often this is how things get changed.

TattooedMac,
Save As (as it is in Mavericks) does the following:
If you edit a Pages document (for example), then decide to create a new document with your changes using Save As, the original document will be saved with those changes applied as well. That is not how Save As worked from its introduction many years ago until Lion, Mtn. Lion and now Mavericks. When you did the save as, the original would not have the changes saved to it. I do this regularly on my Snow Leopard iMac. I believe the logic was "When I invoke "Save As", save what I just did as a new file and keep the original as it was before I made any changes." The Option key gives you the "Save As' command but it behaves differently. The guys at TidBits did an extensive article on this.

Exodist: Thanks for the heads-up about Tim Cook. I will try to find it and the bug reports avenue as well.

Rob

Exodist said:

@Gnryrob. You can email Tim Cook. I do believe the information is on Apples website somewhere. Also another more common way is to submit bug reports via apples website. Even if its a new feature you would like to see. The developers will look through them and often this is how things get changed.

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Was going to suggest this as well, because i sent him a extensive email, and then Tweeted him to check his inbox about the demise of Aperture and how many people are moving to LR And we need to see Aperture 4 real soon . . .

gnryrob said:

TattooedMac,
Save As (as it is in Mavericks) does the following:
If you edit a Pages document (for example), then decide to create a new document with your changes using Save As, the original document will be saved with those changes applied as well.

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Ahh i get ya. Im a member over at TidBits so ill go and read the article.
Not pushing the point, but isn't this (in Pages) where Versions would come in though ??

Save As - hope this puts this topic to bed.

quote
Ahh i get ya. Im a member over at TidBits so ill go and read the article.
Not pushing the point, but isn't this (in Pages) where Versions would come in though ??
end quote

Versions is the reason that Save As no longer works "right". Yes, you can go back to the original and revert to an earlier version. But then you are doing a lot of work to get back to where you were before "Save As" got messed up.

Better to get used to using the Duplicate option before starting to make alterations if you have the notion to make a new copy based on the old one.

Rob

Enough with the tree hugger speech, lol. For those who are in-tuned to modern tech, then they can already see thru Apple's B.S. with their unupgradeable and overpriced products involving the consumer to "buy it today and toss it tomorrow". Their products were designed for little access to repair, forcing the consumer to buy another one. It's the conscious choice of the consumer to choose whether to buy into it, or select another alternative. Although the consumer puts profits in Apple's products, the consumer shouldn't ultimately put all their eggs in Apple's basket; I don't rely nor look toward Apple as my first brand choice to guide my buying decisions. After the arrival of the new Mac Pro, Apple has gone to the point of no return. The petitions and the pleadings won't help either to stop Apple's cult followings.

gnryrob said:

Versions is the reason that Save As no longer works "right". Yes, you can go back to the original and revert to an earlier version. But then you are doing a lot of work to get back to where you were before "Save As" got messed up.

Better to get used to using the Duplicate option before starting to make alterations if you have the notion to make a new copy based on the old one.

Rob

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Goes to show that i don't do a lot of Document work . . . . Well I'm happy being a person that doesn't live in a Office Put I learnt something now anyways . . Cheers

urbanman2004 said:

Enough with the tree hugger speech, lol. For those who are in-tuned to modern tech, then they can already see thru Apple's B.S. with their unupgradeable and overpriced products involving the consumer to "buy it today and toss it tomorrow". Their products were designed for little access to repair, forcing the consumer to buy another one. It's the conscious choice of the consumer to choose whether to buy into it, or select another alternative. Although the consumer puts profits in Apple's products, the consumer shouldn't ultimately put all their eggs in Apple's basket; I don't rely nor look toward Apple as my first brand choice to guide my buying decisions. After the arrival of the new Mac Pro, Apple has gone to the point of no return. The petitions and the pleadings won't help either to stop Apple's cult followings.

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Haha In my eyes, and my own opinion, Apple make a superior product, with better hardware than its competitors. On top of that, Apple have now dropped the price of Ext Applecare, so with these closed units, buy Applecare and you are right for 3-4 yrs. I for one will keep buying the product, and look forward to my iMac purchase coming up, and the Extended Applecare, and then i know ill be a happy camper until it runs out.
Over the last 5 yrs, i have had, 4 MBP, 1 MBA, 2 iPads, 2 iPad Minis, 3 or 4 iPhone4/4s, 4 iPhone5/c and its only right now as i write this, that i have a problem with a green iPhone5c, and talking to Apple, they are replacing it, site unseen . . .

I for one am a happy Apple buyer

Just a quick note to urbanman2004, PC hardware is doing the same thing. Watch closely. Read Anandtechs comments on it all. It's all going that way with only the extreme computer geeks like I and some others here caring about hardware we can work on. MANY PC laptops today have soldered in RAM. So don't blame just Apple. Also Blame Microsoft for Windows 8 which is the first OS to be both a Tablet/Cell Phone and PC OS with a Tablet/Cell Phone interface!

urbanman2004 said:

Enough with the tree hugger speech, lol.

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Why? How is this not an important conversation to have about the impact of devices that are terrible for the environment? I don't quite understand why people just entirely disregard the environmental discussion.

My opinion, if you are bored:

Motherboards have a limited life in terms of speed regardless, so it doesn't matter how easy your computer is to take apart, 6-7 years, and it's out, you can't resist the massive spec bump to the new machines. So any given chassis is limited by the board, and I don't know of any portable computer manufacturer that has kept a chassis you can upgrade the motherboard on 5 years later.

Apple are heading towards all-SSD and MacBook Air designs, and those Macs are quick enough to serve the next 5-6 years. (Possibly longer since we now have near perfect resolutions, good enough battery and weight/size). Which was an issue compared to the last 6-7 years where we've shaved 50% of the weight off, double the battery etc. So the race has slowed down a bit in physical terms.

So, as for portable computers, buying a top-sepc MBA and using it for 5+ years is as good as you're going to get, yes, they could make the RAM removable, but we'll probably hit the motherboard speed limit before that affects most users. I don't think anyone who makes really modular portable computers has users that are holding on to their machines more than 5 years anyway.

Apple does get one very important thing right, making computers that people are in no rush to get rid of. Compared to the millions of crappy, badly designed and cared for PCs out there that end up in the bin with support so limited, people just settle for buying a new one.

Desktops are a little different since the iMacs have only gotten bigger in screen size, and those really could do with a screw in each corner and easy accessibility to RAM and HDD.

It might not be one screw for the hard drive but even todays iMacs CAN be taken apart if you know what you are doing and get the tools from OWC and a new hard drive fitted.

Memory on the 27" IS one panel. It's the 21.5" you need to take completely apart.

I do agree though on a lot of what you said above.

@TattooedMac: More power to u. Like I said earlier you're part of Apple's cult following that won't stop buying their products.
@dtravis7: I understand that it's not a one-sided issue, and acknowledge that PCs manufacturers can be responsible for creating products with a limited lifespan and lack of upgrade capabilities, but my comment was based on the OP which was directed at Apple products and it implied a request for them to change. Now mind u, I know what it means to get the most out of a machine that's why I build my own PCs (desktops), but when you have a laptop/tablet manufacturer that's set in its ways, and its business model is based on soldering MBs to chips, making devices with limited access to make repairs and/or upgrades, going backwards won't be a part of their agenda. their in the business to make money, they want you to buy a new one when the old one goes bad.
@vansmith: Don't get emotional on me. The environment is important, I get that. I read the OP and was like "I get the point already" after the first few sentences were made a/b the environment's importance. I for one recycle my unused/dead computer parts/devices. IMO, the environment would be a better place by advocating for change which ultimately comes down to the consumers' actions: "recycle, reuse, reduce, and close the loop."

urbanman2004 said:

Don't get emotional on me.

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I wasn't getting emotional. I was responding to the rather abrupt disregard for the pejoratively named "tree huggers" and the "lol" you decided to follow that with.

urbanman2004 said:

IMO, the environment would be a better place by advocating for change which ultimately comes down to the consumers' actions: "recycle, reuse, reduce, and close the loop."

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You can't put this solely on the consumer - both consumer and industry need to address this and since we're talking about the latter here, there's no need to brush it aside with what I presume to be a cavalier view (again, the "tree hugger" and "lol" certainly seem to suggest this).

vansmith said:

I wasn't getting emotional. I was responding to the rather abrupt disregard for the pejoratively named "tree huggers" and the "lol" you decided to follow that with.
You can't put this solely on the consumer - both consumer and industry need to address this and since we're talking about the latter here, there's no need to brush it aside with what I presume to be a cavalier view (again, the "tree hugger" and "lol" certainly seem to suggest this).

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First off, u take urself way to seriously. Second, u can advocate for change by bringing upon self awareness to both the industry as well as the consumers (i.e. petition) but unless ur gonna commit ur ideas into action then all have disputed so far including ur stand for on the issue will have little effect to ur cause.

Here is my iMac.

HP Z1 Workstation 27-in All-in-One Review - YouTube

I agree with the UNIX users, if UNIX goes, so do I. Note also Google does the same thing hardware wise: The Nexus 1 (LG-C800G) had a changeable battery and an SD card slot, the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 have neither, and worse, the last 2 use a cut down sim card which makes it difficult to buy a temporary sim card when traveling. I broke my Nexus 4 and went back to the one and am glad I did even tho Google will not update OS for it. Both companies are making their products more sealed and locked in and less useful for users. I, too, fear the day when Apple dumps UNIX and I have to spend hours trying to keep Linux working.

dtravis7 said:

Here is my iMac.

HP Z1 Workstation 27-in All-in-One Review - YouTube

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This is what you call upgradable I love the idea that everything has a latch, and is easily taken out, but then you still have work to do, to take the components out of those latched pieces.
BUT did you see the size of that thing ie: thickness ?? Lol
I know this is what Apple was moving away from, but i really think they can take something away from that machine.
2 latches on the side and the whole things opens up with a Air Piston to hold it up . . But sadly, we know the iMac is never going to become that

MDJCM said:

My opinion, if you are bored:

Motherboards have a limited life in terms of speed regardless, so it doesn't matter how easy your computer is to take apart, 6-7 years, and it's out,.......

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Yes and No.. I will start with Yes and your point is fairly correct, motherboards, RAM and CPU if replaced individually can be small incremental upgrades. Although being able to add RAM does help when you come across a software title that needs more RAM. But RAM isn't IMHO as big as a CPU upgrade. Lets say someone buys a computer, wants it just for office, internet, uploading pics to Facebook and they don't like tablets for those task. Well a dual core is fine. But lets say a year later, they want to start making home videos.. Ohh No.. Dual core while will work is slow mo.. Even if that motherboard does support a speedy quad core i7, they i aint installing it. So that can be discouraging, but IMHO this can simply be overlooked if Apple implements a good upgrade plan for their products, offering trade in discounts. I think this would be good for business.

Then there is NO. You need to be able to open the case period. Dust is the #1 killer of computers with #2 being power brown outs. So to avoid #1 you need to be able to open your computer case and clean in quarterly, some houses monthly.. If you don't the computer often will not make it 5 to 6 years. So IMHO if apple really wants to go green, we need to be able to go clean..

TattooedMac said:

This is what you call upgradable I........
2 latches on the side and the whole things opens up with a Air Piston to hold it up . . But sadly, we know the iMac is never going to become that

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LMAO... So true..


Hey did you notice he was "impressed" on how they squeezed all that into the case.. LMAO guess he ever seen the new Mac Pro..