Advice on buying a new car..

chscag said:

Ah Nick, man after my own heart! We haven't purchased a new car in 15 years. Like Nick we look for top of line used around 2 - 3 years old. I've had very good luck with buying used Toyotas (Camry). We drive it until it has around 150K to 200K and then look for another 2 to 3 years old.

I especially look for one that has been leased for 2 or 3 years because the mileage on it will be low compared to one that was purchased outright.

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Believe it or not...I have never owned a new car. The "newest" car I have ever owned was about 4-5 years old. New cars just aren't a great deal. They lose too much value in those first few years. In fact...I have never purchased an automobile that I didn't pay 100% cash for at the time of purchase (so I've never had a car payment in 30+ years of auto ownership). Of course being handy, having the tools, and interested in repairing my own vehicles (as necessary)...comes in very handy!

Automobiles no matter how you look at them are a necessity (in most areas) at least in North America...but universally...they are a money pits!!!

Automobiles in many ways are just like computers:

- they cost a lot to buy new
- they depreciate very quickly
- new styling & new features can motivate newer model purchases
- lack of performance can also motivate a new/newer purchase

Of course just like automobiles...I also am an advocate of buying "pre-owned" computers. And doing repairs myself as necessary.

I am definitely in no way saying that purchasing a brand new car is the wrong thing to do (buying a brand new car can be nice...just like a brand new computer)...but man you pay for it!

- Nick

I have no intentions whatsoever of buying a "brand new" car.. Just something.. Newer.. Roomier.. Safer.. etc..

This toyota I own is the first car i've personally owned myself and bought it outright for a thousand bucks, almost 3 years ago.. And why the engine is still rockin' .. The body and everything else is deteriorating..

I think I'm going to hit that dealership up and take some test drivers, and try and work with them.

Audio.Trench said:

I think I'm going to hit that dealership up and take some test drivers, and try and work with them.

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If you've got all the cash to pay for the car you're looking for...don't pass up private car deals as well...you can save even more money.

Dealers (I'm talking new car dealers that sell used cars...not shady used car only places)...generally only sell "better" used cars (better mechanically & better cosmetically).

So generally speaking...the used cars sold at new car dealerships will be of better quality...but you will pay more for it as well. With private deals...you can find some great deals as well (great looking & great running) for less than a new car dealer...but you need to know what to look for.

Buying a new or used car can really be a frustrating process. We work hard to earn & save our money...and nobody wants to buy a piece of unreliable junk!

- Nick

For years we went the used route. Now we buy new and run the wheels off (200K+ miles before even consider moving on). Total ownership costs about the same as buying used and you know the life history and early maintenance your vehicle has seen.

EDIT: My work car is a 2009 Toyota Matrix bought new in 2008 for $18k. Financed it for 4 years and paid it off in 1 year. Has 85K miles on it and expect to get at least 250K before I am done with it.

Something to consider a new Sonata has a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty on the drivetrain i know its outside your budget but when the drivetrain is covered that well it could end up saving you money in the long run.
I was a car tech for more years than I want to admit and trans / motor repair replacement are the most expensive things to fix next would be ABS followed by AC/Heat.
As to high end I will give Mercedes credit if everyone else thought it only needed 3 bolts to hold it on Mercedes would use 6 they are well engineered cars but somewhat overpriced.

The most recent auto buying experience was for my wife (almost 2 years ago)...and if we were to buy brand new...Hyundai was the brand (due to the warranty). But even then (optimally) we would have been looking for around a 2 year-old model.

We ended up with a 2008 Volvo (about 3 years old at the time), which still had some warranty remaining.

- Nick

chscag said:

Ah Nick, man after my own heart! We haven't purchased a new car in 15 years. Like Nick we look for top of line used around 2 - 3 years old. I've had very good luck with buying used Toyotas (Camry). We drive it until it has around 150K to 200K and then look for another 2 to 3 years old.

I especially look for one that has been leased for 2 or 3 years because the mileage on it will be low compared to one that was purchased outright.

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You may find that you can buy an used Avalon for the same or less money than the Camery simply because more people look for Camerys and drive up the price.

For people with kids or that like to travel the Sienna is a great choice. Frankly, I find the Sienna nicer to drive than the Camery although you give up some mileage for all the extra space. The Sienna seats are higher so you don't find yourself pulling yourself up out of the seats. Especially nice for us older folks. The sliding doors are nice for shopping in tight parking lots! Fold down the rear seats & pull out the 2nd row of seats and you can camp or take a nice nap on a trip on a hot day. On a trip, my wife & I napped for 90 minutes on a foam pad at 100 degree outside with AC running. The engine stayed nice and cool. A nice advantage with a mini van like a Sienna when on vacation.

I was very surprised how easy the Sienna is to drive around town. It is not cumbersome at all. I actually prefer driving it to my Avalon.... except for the lesser mileage.

A well maintained Toyota should last 300K miles. Use a good synthetic oil!

^^
and almost all mini vans drop in price like a rock the first time they're driven off the lot.

bobtomay said:

^^
and almost all mini vans drop in price like a rock the first time they're driven off the lot.

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Reminds me of station wagons no trade in value and as you stated the minute they left the lot it took a couple of thousand dollar hit.

Safety? Reports out just yesterday on off-center crashes rate the Honda Civic the highest. I own a 2012 Corolla, so I'm not a Honda salesman.

Sorry Subaru fans, I would never buy one because they're AWD, but that's just me. I don't need AWD, and I've replaced just one tire on several vehicles, including my Outlander just last week. Can't do that with AWD; gotta get 4 at a time.

bobtomay said:

^^
and almost all mini vans drop in price like a rock the first time they're driven off the lot.

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I hear you. When the kids were small that's all we purchased. The first van was a Ford Aerostar which we purchased at the time I was living and working for the government in Florida. The first time it rained, it leaked through the rear windows. Took two months for the Ford dealer to finally stop the leaks. The second van was a Mazda MPV which lasted for 110K before the transmission went out. After that no more vans.

toMACsh said:

Safety? Reports out just yesterday on off-center crashes rate the Honda Civic the highest. I own a 2012 Corolla, so I'm not a Honda salesman.

Sorry Subaru fans, I would never buy one because they're AWD, but that's just me. I don't need AWD, and I've replaced just one tire on several vehicles, including my Outlander just last week. Can't do that with AWD; gotta get 4 at a time.

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Yeah, for some locations, AWD is overkill. But OP is in Canada, and AWD is fantastic in the snow. As for tires, I've never had to buy just one tire. I rotate tires so they wear evenly, and any punctures I've gotten have been patched. In fact, I haven't had to buy tires for my Subie since I bought. I got 2 sets of tires with it, sumer and snow tires, and spring and fall they get swapped.

toMACsh said:

Can't do that with AWD; gotta get 4 at a time.

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Curious. Though I typically rotate my tires and replace all four because they wear evenly, I've never heard that all four must be replaced at the same time on an AWD vehicle. What's the reasoning behind that statement?

cwa107 said:

Curious. Though I typically rotate my tires and replace all four because they wear evenly, I've never heard that all four must be replaced at the same time on an AWD vehicle. What's the reasoning behind that statement?

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The main issue is due to the difference in tire diameter between the old and new. An AWD system drives all wheels at the same rate, but when the have different sized wheels, the larger tire will spin slower than the smaller wheel, which will cause binding in the drive system, as well as tire wear. It's not good. The other, lesser issue, is seen when the diameter not being enough of a difference to cause drivetrain issues, but enough to cause rapid tire wear.

Audio.Trench said:

Thanks Igg! I appreciate the help..

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Sorry it took so long to respond. I looked around, and I saw plenty of cars available at your price range. Plenty of Civics, and Mazdas. A 2009-2010 Civic seems to go for around $10k, with anywhere from 40,000-60,000 kilometers. There were a few from Honda dealers, and were certified, and looked to be in pretty good condition.
Upon searching for some Mazdas, I noticed that there were vehicles offered as CPOs with 150k kilometers. There were many with high miles offered as CPO. That just seems like a lot of miles/kilometers on a car for me. I couldn't find many Toyotas that were certified, low miles/kilometers, manual, and at ~$10k. The only listing that showed was an '04 Corolla Sport with 80k km. What I also noticed is that the market price for a Camry is not too far off the Corolla. I would definitely go with the Camry before the Corolla. I also found a 2009 Toyota Matrix for $10500 with 63,000km. Tracked it through the dealer's site, and it looks new.

I wasn't surprised at the low stock of used Subarus. If I were you, I would look at local classifieds first before going to any of these dealers.

If I were you, I would look into the Mazda 3. Seems that you can get a good car, with low kilometers, and at a good price.

^^

the Mazda 3 is actually high on my list right now.. AWD would be amazing (not only for the climate here, but compared to what i'm used to...), but is not a top priority..

I have a feeling that working with a dealer may not be a wise choice in my current financial situation.. my wife and i aren't well off, but we do live reasonably well with 2 incomes..

There are plenty of Hyundai's here too for under $9K, which i've been debating.. My mother in-law just picked up an 08 Accent hatch, and it's super fun to drive, and it can fit a child seat in the back, i know this for fact.. I'd opt for the 4dr sedan, as i'm not huge on hatchbacks..

The Suzuki I found is an SX4 I guess "sport," looks comparable to a Corolla S/XRS, and it's only $9K ..

I'll be putting about $3000-$3500 down, so if that worked out, my payments would be fairly low even over a 3 year term..

Definitely going to check private stuff too, it just worries me, and I know it's a gamble either way I go, but I don't want to buy a problem car.. At least going with this local dealer, they basically refurb it, new brakes all round, tuned up, etc.. Plus a warranty with the option of a 4-year extended..

I have lots of time to do some research and talk to people, as I wont' be making the actual purchase for another few months once my income tax return finally gets back..

Audio.Trench said:

The Suzuki I found is an SX4 I guess "sport," looks comparable to a Corolla S/XRS, and it's only $9K ..

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The Suzuki SX4 is a tiny car. I wouldn't recommend it since you are expecting a baby. The entire car fits in the wheelbase of my Impreza. A coworker had one.

Raz0rEdge said:

And here comes the BMW Salesman...

I kid (only slightly though.. )

I used to be a new car buyer until we bought my wife's certified pre-owned Lexus. It looked like new, drove like new and had the warranty like new but saved us a good amount of money. When it came time for me to get a new SUV, I went down the CPO route as well with my BMW and couldn't be happier..

The number of vehicles available with stick shift (my choice if it was available) is a paltry few so you really have to work through those..

If you want to fuel economy, start by looking at 4-cylinder engines that will usually yield you at least 30 MPG if not more..

Technically any four-door sedan or mini-SUV will serve your purpose well I think..

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Only two new cars for me in over 40 years, but many used ones. IF you take your time, it is possible to find well cared for used at a fraction of the new price.

I too love BMW's and have owned plenty. My most recent is a Alpine White x5. Superb vehicle .

iggibar said:

The main issue is due to the difference in tire diameter between the old and new. An AWD system drives all wheels at the same rate, but when the have different sized wheels, the larger tire will spin slower than the smaller wheel, which will cause binding in the drive system, as well as tire wear. It's not good. The other, lesser issue, is seen when the diameter not being enough of a difference to cause drivetrain issues, but enough to cause rapid tire wear.

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Actually, the main issue is the traction control system. The difference in the new tire's tread depth compared to the other tires will be interpreted by the system as something it needs to correct for. Rather than happening periodically for a short duration due to road conditions, this will happen constantly. Sooner or later (most likely sooner) the system will get overtaxed and fried. Now you're going to be out a few grand AND the cost of four new tires, which you should have paid for in the first place.

I'm sure you can find a more technical explanation of this on the internet somewhere.

Stretch said:

As for tires, I've never had to buy just one tire. I rotate tires so they wear evenly, and any punctures I've gotten have been patched. In fact, I haven't had to buy tires for my Subie since I bought.

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Your luck will run out some day. The times that I've had to replace a damaged tire were due to sidewall punctures (the latest one too small to see) or punctures on the tread too close to the sidewall to be repaired. It's only a matter of time...

toMACsh said:

Actually, the main issue is the traction control system. The difference in the new tire's tread depth compared to the other tires will be interpreted by the system as something it needs to correct for. Rather than happening periodically for a short duration due to road conditions, this will happen constantly. Sooner or later (most likely sooner) the system will get overtaxed and fried. Now you're going to be out a few grand AND the cost of four new tires, which you should have paid for in the first place.

I'm sure you can find a more technical explanation of this on the internet somewhere.

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TCS can be a problem, but I've never heard of that problem due to replacing a new wheel or two with the same manufacturer. Te differences are too small. The only times I know of it happening is when people buy a new tire from a different manufacture as the rest, which apart from different diameter and circumference(can lead to more or less rolling per mile), they also have a different rolling resistance. People usually do this with cheap tires, which usually have much worse rolling resistance. If it has better rolling resistance, the problem is easier to cover up, but tread wear is still increased. When I read statements of people saying they are replacing a tire, I usually think of replacing the old with a new of same manufacturer. There are other problems too that can arise, but nothing is more serious than drivetrain damage.