Adobe, not going universal till 2007

i just heard this on the TWiT podcast

i dont think Pro's will be getting the intel power macs anytime soon

it will only be universal when CS 3 comes out. Adobe friends, stick w/ your G5 for a while!

Your point? Unless I see a Intel Quad or something with another form of a performance increase, there's no need.

I'm probably not gonna switch to intel before at least early 2007, when most stuff is universal, because I like to use Photoshop etc. Maybe not even then, since new things are going to be still working with PPC and Intel. Until then - iMac G5!

I am planning on sticking with my Powermac quad for now any way, I feel its going to be hard for intel to match this system any way.

to_tough_to_die said:

Your point? Unless I see a Intel Quad or something with another form of a performance increase, there's no need.

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Point is when Apple release their Pro intel desktops, After effects and the creative suite will not be native.

So what are you supposed to use if your a PRO?
Are they just going to sit on the shelf (intel power Macs) untill Adobe release universal?

lets face it Apple would die without Adobe.

I dont think Job's will be happy with this and i think he knew something like this at the last keynote thats maybe why he was promoting Quark?

This is a kick in the teeth for Apple, you would think if Adobe really valued Apple that much it would of had Universal out already(or at least soon)

I Bet bet Quark are thinking this is a good situation to get back some of the switchers to InDesign Back.

I think that the relationship of Adobe and Apple at the moment is not at its best, maybe something is going on?

The weird thing is the beta version of lightroom which is not even out is not universal?? or is it? strange

hey guys so do the adobe applications such as photoshop not work on the intel macs or do they have to run through rossetta, how does this affect it's performance? or can they not run at all?

macanal said:

Point is when Apple release their Pro intel desktops, After effects and the creative suite will not be native.

So what are you supposed to use if your a PRO?
Are they just going to sit on the shelf (intel power Macs) untill Adobe release universal?

lets face it Apple would die without Adobe.

I dont think Job's will be happy with this and i think he knew something like this at the last keynote thats maybe why he was promoting Quark?

This is a kick in the teeth for Apple, you would think if Adobe really valued Apple that much it would of had Universal out already(or at least soon)

I Bet bet Quark are thinking this is a good situation to get back some of the switchers to InDesign Back.

I think that the relationship of Adobe and Apple at the moment is not at its best, maybe something is going on?

The weird thing is the beta version of lightroom which is not even out is not universal?? or is it? strange

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That's my point: Apple won't release an Intel PowerMac until it's worthwhile. Performance increases and Universal Adobe products are a HUGE step there.

to_tough_to_die said:

That's my point: Apple won't release an Intel PowerMac until it's worthwhile. Performance increases and Universal Adobe products are a HUGE step there.

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I thought all Apple macs will be intel by the end of the year??

Yes the Adobe products run on the intel macs on rosetta, they say they run ok, but not good enough for Pro's

macanal said:

I thought all Apple macs will be intel by the end of the year??

Yes the Adobe products run on the intel macs on rosetta, they say they run ok, but not good enough for Pro's

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By the end of the year, Intel's Woodcrest will be out. A quad-core Woodcrest would completely destroy the current Quad-Core G5, along with anything AMD has in their line up. And considering the Power Macs would likely be the last in the line to switch over and that it's entirely possible CS3 will be released in EARLY 2007, there really isn't much of a gap there as far as creative professionals are concerned. There is no relationship trouble. Adobe even said they were happy with what Apple is doing at the WWDC.

macanal said:

I thought all Apple macs will be intel by the end of the year??

Yes the Adobe products run on the intel macs on rosetta, they say they run ok, but not good enough for Pro's

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Jobs isn't a moron: he won't release them to early.

to_tough_to_die said:

Jobs isn't a moron: he won't release them to early.

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Jobs said at his keynote that Apple was going to be all Intel by the end of the year.
I doubt they will wait for Adobe!!

Also all intels new CPUs will be based on the same core as the core duo.
The ONLY thing Intel is going to add is one dual CPU capable model, hyperthread and EMT64 and a rumoured FSB increase.
Even with all this it still won’t touch the dual core Opterons( it will at least baet the G5).
Intel are behind AMD at least 18 months in dual core technology and adding EMT 64 and HT to the yonah core will do very little to help them.

One thing Intel have to do with their dual CPU's is at least give each CPU its own memory bus.

macanal said:

Jobs said at his keynote that Apple was going to be all Intel by the end of the year.
I doubt they will wait for Adobe!!

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Jobs said all products will be Intel in one calendar year. Whether Steve meant 12 months or before the end of December I'm not sure, but since he was specific about "calendar" year, it could be construed as Jan 2007, which could be closer to Adobe's Universal release. Just $0.02

deus_ex_machina said:

Jobs said all products will be Intel in one calendar year. Whether Steve meant 12 months or before the end of December I'm not sure, but since he was specific about "calendar" year, it could be construed as Jan 2007, which could be closer to Adobe's Universal release. Just $0.02

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Makes sense. How about a Mac World expo next year with the new Power Macs and all of the Adobe apps native?

Even with all this it still won’t touch the dual core Opterons( it will at least baet the G5).
Intel are behind AMD at least 18 months in dual core technology and adding EMT 64 and HT to the yonah core will do very little to help them.

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Right now the quad G5 is the total badass of computers. So I find it very hard to believe that anything is going to out perform them in the near future, and your statement that the opertons will be hard to beat but the G5's won't doesn't make sense. Right now the system to beat is the Quad!

supremeoverlord said:

Right now the quad G5 is the total badass of computers. So I find it very hard to believe that anything is going to out perform them in the near future, and your statement that the opertons will be hard to beat but the G5's won't doesn't make sense. Right now the system to beat is the Quad!

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your a ignoramous, Dual core Opteron's eat G5's and anything out there thats a FACT!!!( thats not to say the quad g5's are slouches) and they will do for some time which amazes me because the Opteron has been out a fair while now.

Maybe next Jan if they have mac world expo again thats when they may release the intel power macs?

I still cant see something like After Effects 7 being replace by After effects 8 Next Jan it usually comes out every 2 years maybe After Effects 7.5?

What really worrie me is the fact that Adobe Lightroom a App. that has not even come out yet, is not going to be universal!! very strange... you would think a new product would come out universal.

Actually, macanal, it's you that amazes me. Maybe you should actually read on some benchmarks. The Dual Opteron is beaten by Quad G5 in most benchmarks.

Tiranis said:

Actually, macanal, it's you that amazes me. Maybe you should actually read on some benchmarks. The Dual Opteron is beaten by Quad G5 in most benchmarks.

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8.5GB memory bandwidth on the Quad G5 Vs 12.8GB on the Dual Opterons.
Also the fact that the Opteron has much lower memory latency.
Factor in the Opteron has separate Memory and memory Bus for each CPU and does not share the same memory and memory bus with both CPU's like the G5, which causes a big bottleneck

Do the math!!

Are you looking a Jobs or Apple benchmarks?
I have seen the propaganda benchmarks with Apps optimized for what is being benchmarked on the G5 and not being optimised for the PC.
Also Apple pick out the one of maybe 10 benchmarks on a application that the G5 wins and publish that and not the 9 other benchmarks on the same application where the g5 gets blown away!! I have seen also all the Apple Fanboy sites benchmarks too.

No wonder Jobs is at Disney now because he makes up a lot of fairytales.

This is a FACT!! Steve Jobs said a SINGLE CORE of the core duo is faster then the G5 (Dont you believe Steve jobs when he said this?) a single core Opteron would blow away a single core of the Intel core Duo, it would not even be close!!

Here are some unbiased or doctored benchmarks
here

Here is another and keep in Mind the opteron has the lower speed model (2.4Ghz on the Opteron vs 2.5Ghz and 2.7Ghz of the G5's tested) and the opteron Still kicks but.

Here

A quote from Anadtech
"First of all, the G5 needs a lower latency access to the memory because right now, the integer performance of the G5 leaves a lot to be desired. The Opteron and Xeon have a better integer engine, and especially the Pentium 4/Xeon has a better Branch predictor too. The Opteron's memory subsystem runs circles around the G5's.

Secondly, it is clear that the G5 FP performance, despite its access to 32 architectural registers, needs good optimisation. Only one of our flops tests was " Altivectorized", which means that the GCC compiler needs to improve quite a bit before it can turn those many open source programs into super fast applications on the Mac. In contrast, the Intel compiler can vectorize all 8 tests."

I know network engineers that laugh at Xserve System because the performance is so poor and the price is so high.

When Steve Jobs releases the Quad Intel power Mac Systems, you will see he will no doubt bang on about how much faster they are then the Quad G5's just like he did at the last keynote.
When in reality they are just Core Duo's with EMT 64 and HT and a Faster FSB.
The Opteron will still blow them away.

You're comparing a Dual G5 2.5Ghz and Opteron, what the ****—did you see the price-point of that Opteron and the difference in performance is MINIMAL? I don't care about your theoretical numbers like possible bandwidth etc., so far you haven't given me a single benchmark that would prove your point. Opterons are more expensive and are far slower than Quad G5s.

And the guy from berkley is obviously biased, I won't even go into why his benchmarks are not a valid comparison of the performance—there's just too many things wrong with them.

Here's a nice chart for you: http://www.systemshootouts.org/processors.html Opteron 5.3 while Quad has 6.5... Oh and we can't forget about the price difference, oh no. And a nice benchmark here: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=300275

Cinebench:
"Rendering (Multiple CPU): 824 CB-CPU (Quad G5, non-optimized)
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 1005 CB-CPU (Quad G5, optimized for G5)
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 615 CB-CPU (Dual 2.4Ghz Opteron)"

and after he finally set the performance to highest instead of automatic:
"I was able to get up to 1103 in multi CPU rendering in Cinebench G5."

I don't think I need to say more (that's the way it is with all the benchmarks).