Why No More Boot Discs?

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I was an employee of Apple Retail for three years (more on that later if you'd like). I know that when I worked there we used to sell Lion or Mountain Lion installs on a flash drive, to reinstall your operating system or something else.

Discovered this morning that not only does Apple no longer sell them retail, but they don't even carry them as service parts!

At this point I don't expect for there to be a solution (I need both 10.7 and 10.8 on disc, 10.8 is doable 10.7 is not) because I understand that Apple's business model is to blow off anybody who has any issues with their products (because economically, they can).

Basically I'm just wondering if anybody has any sort of explanation for why Apple would have pulled this product. Seems low-cost and useful, why would they have done this??
 

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Lion was available on a USB flash drive, but Mountain Lion was never available as anything other than a digital download. Both Lion and Mountain Lion create a recovery partition that can be gotten into to repair a system and a do a network re-install of if need be..

The situation where this would not work is if you installing Lion/Mountain Lion on a brand new hard drive. But if you did buy either Lion/Mountain Lion at some point, there are numerous tutorials online about making a install flash drive or DVD from the installer.

Apple's recent elimination of optical drives from their notebooks and iMacs is a clear indication of how they perceive physical media.
 

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I was an employee of Apple Retail for three years (more on that later if you'd like). I know that when I worked there we used to sell Lion or Mountain Lion installs on a flash drive, to reinstall your operating system or something else.

To the best of my knowledge...Mountain Lion was never sold in any form (to the general public) other than online download (never available on USB stick from the Apple Store).

Basically I'm just wondering if anybody has any sort of explanation for why Apple would have pulled this product. Seems low-cost and useful, why would they have done this??

Seems to me (being a former Apple Store employee)...you probably know more than we do.

But regarding what you mentioned...the Lion on USB stick was pulled when Mountain Lion was released...and as I mentioned above...Mountain Lion was never available on USB stick (for the general public).

The clear answer to your question is Apple wants to move everything to "the Cloud".

I too would like to be able to purchase Lion and Mountain Lion on DVD...but I guess it just ain't going to happen.

- Nick
 
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Mountain Lion was sold, however briefly and quietly, in stores for a few months.

The issue now is that we have a machine running 10.8, and no machines in the office that ever downloaded 10.7. We need to somehow create a boot disk of 10.7 to install on a new machine to test software we are developing.

I am well aware that Apple shuns physical media, and I don't disagree, it just seems odd that they would remove a useful, simple option like this, and also completely remove the ability to even download Lion. Even if we did have a machine running 10.6, Apple doesn't offer a 10.7 download, only direct to 10.8.

I still can't figure out a solution to my 10.7 disk problem.
 

chscag

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Lion is still available to download from the Mac App store for those who have previously purchased it before it was pulled. A call to Apple customer service is all that's needed.

Why don't you call Apple customer service and ask if it can be downloaded? Also, if you're a registered Apple developer, you should be able to download it.
 

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The issue now is that we have a machine running 10.8, and no machines in the office that ever downloaded 10.7. We need to somehow create a boot disk of 10.7 to install on a new machine to test software we are developing.

I still can't figure out a solution to my 10.7 disk problem.

Yes...this is a bit of a pain in the butt! One way to get Lion...is to check e-Bay. Sometimes you'll find a couple Lion on USB stick for sale.:)

For example...here's one:

Apple Mac OS x Lion V 10 7 USB Thumb Drive A1384 | eBay

It even costs less than the original $69 price for Lion on USB.:)

- Nick
 
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Lion is still available to download from the Mac App store for those who have previously purchased it before it was pulled. A call to Apple customer service is all that's needed.

Why don't you call Apple customer service and ask if it can be downloaded? Also, if you're a registered Apple developer, you should be able to download it.


This is sadly not an option -- I have called them and they won't allow even the download. Apple appears to have suddenly decided to make it completely impossible to get Lion -- they only allow Mountain Lion.

The only options appear to be online through 3rd parties.

This brings me to my original question -- WHY???

I don't expect to get 10.7, I appreciate that Apple has shut that down, what I want to know is, can anybody provide a rational explanation for this complete disavowal of their own operating system??
 

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This brings me to my original question -- WHY???

You're looking for a logical reason...and there just isn't one (from the consumers perspective).

Apple made a business decision...and that's it...end of story!

- Nick

p.s. I don't agree with this decision...but whatta ya gonna do!;)
 

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It's stil available for download for people who bought it. It's in my list of things I can download from the Apple Store.

Why they did it? Computers are going Cloud. Touch also. Look at Windows 8. Microsoft has a store also and soon they will be the same, all digital and no more media. it's the way it's going. I personally HATE it, but that is where computing is going then to devices. Look at the new Macbook Pro. No changeable RAM, Proprietary hard drive that you can only get from OWC and Apple.
Forgot to mention Adobe. They just anounced no more software. OnLine only. All Cloud. So Sad.


As much as I hate it, that is where computing or whatever it will be called is heading.

If you have at one time purchased Lion from the App store and it's not showing up, you have to unhide hidden purchases.

Screen Shot 2013-05-09 at 10.11.59 AM.png
 
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You're looking for a logical reason...and there just isn't one (from the consumers perspective).

Apple made a business decision...and that's it...end of story!

- Nick

p.s. I don't agree with this decision...but whatta ya gonna do!;)


Right, I understand that. I just really hate Apple's whole attitude of "do it our way, and if not, **** you."

This has always been their business model and likely always will be -- the bottom line is that I do not understand the BUSINESS logic behind pulling the boot discs
 
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It's stil available for download for people who bought it. It's in my list of things I can download from the Apple Store.


If you have at one time purchased Lion from the App store and it's not showing up, you have to unhide hidden purchases.

The issue is that all of the computers we have in the office were at least on 10.7 when purchased....meaning that there is no way to re-download the OS because it was never technically downloaded.
 

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The issue is that all of the computers we have in the office were at least on 10.7 when purchased....meaning that there is no way to re-download the OS because it was never technically downloaded.

Ok, makes sense. In that case Apple should provide it for you. My opinion anyway since your machines came with it. What happened to putting the machine back to factory stock?
 
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Restoring a machine to factory settings will just take it back to the most recent OS installed, i.e. since we're on 10.8 a restore will jsut go to 10.8. Doesn't matter though, because even on the machines that are on 10.7 its impossible to get the download to make a boot disc
 

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By Restore to factory I meant the way it was shipped. You said it was shipped with LION. If that is the case, then you should be able to put it back the way it shipped. Sorry I guess you misunderstood my post.

Factory Stock is the way the machine shipped.
 

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Forgot to mention Adobe. They just anounced no more software. OnLine only. All Cloud. So Sad.

I saw this the other day...and was going to mention it in this thread as well. something like $39 bucks/month for the new "Cloud" Adobe Creative Suite".

Considering how much Adobe Creative Suite costs (CS6)...and how many folks upgrade fairly frequently...$39/month may not be terrible (for professionals)...but maybe not great for other folks who may not upgrade as often.

Full master suite can cost up to $1500 bucks. So $39 into $1500 is 38.5 months (3 years, 2.5 months).

Also not so great if someone loses their internet connection (for lots of reasons)...or if someone is in the middle of nowhere with no internet.

Definitely a change.

- Nick
 

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Or a slow connect. That will play havoc with it all! Trust me, where I am now living i am stuck with SLOW DSL. My DSL at other house was 4-5x faster. It's a pain with any online game and other things Online.
 
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It doesn't work that way. You join Adobe Creative cloud and then download the programs. I imagine that there is some way for them to stop working once you no longer subscribe, but you definitely don't need an internet connection to use a downloaded Adobe Program. 100%
 

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Just wait, it's all coming. The cloud is coming for you! :D
 
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chas_m

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Maybe I can clear some things up.

Reason Apple has given up optical discs: people lose them and they are EXPENSIVE to manufacture and distribute compared to digital downloads. You want to go back to paying $100+ for every OS release, you go right ahead ... I, on the other hand, prefer the $20 pricetag.

There is a nearly-foolproof system built into Mountain Lion that protects your purchase of ML whether you just want to reinstall for some strange reason or you've lost the HD (it's called Internet Recovery). I cannot even imagine how many landfills filled with unused silver discs this saves every year ...

I find it kind of amusing that people who get their music, videos and third-party software from digital downloads on a routine basis -- and have done so for well nigh on a decade -- are suddenly very concerned that Apple has done the same thing. If you want a "physical" copy of your OS, hey that's a great idea. Make one! If you're concerned about protecting your purchases, back them up -- but even if you don't, the App Store remembers what you bought and will let you re-download for free. Not seeing a problem with this compared to "I can't find my discs" which is often code for "I, um, never had the discs if you get my drift."

I don't know if you've noticed, but the overall price of consumer software has come WAY WAY DOWN over the last few years, entirely due to to reduced costs brought about digital ecosystems.

As for renting software (see: MS Office 365 and Adobe CC) -- this is EXACTLY how you do digital software INCORRECTLY. That said, your subscription Adobe software still resides on your disk exactly as it always did -- it just now checks to make sure you have a license to use it that's still in good standing. Other companies (cough MS cough Quark cough) have been doing this for many years. The part that kinda sucks is this attitude that we all need more monthly bills, and the assumption that everyone who uses Photoshop (for example) use it all the time, every month.

That's okay, Adobe will learn VERY QUICKLY that this is not the usage pattern for a significant portion of their base. For some people, $50/month for the whole Creative Suite and automatic updates, support etc is a perfectly OK deal since they were paying to be up-to-date anyway, and this costs about the same but with some benefits. For others, the occasional $20 spent to "rent" Photoshop for a month works out okay too.

For many users, however, neither of those options seems attractive. I suspect both MS and Adobe will have to eventually retreat back to offering a version that can be used entirely offline.*

*Both Office 365 and Adobe CC can be used offline as well -- in the case of Adobe CC, for up to six months at a time. There's this incorrect perception that your app and work is in the cloud that simply isn't true. These aren't "cloud apps" any more than Pages is a "cloud app." It's more accurate to say they are "cloud licensed" or in the case of Apple, "apps with a cloud option."

So what will happen when Adobe stops supporting CS6 (contrary to the above, they still sell and support it)? One of two things: Adobe will get an earful and go back to offering "perpetual" licensing in some circumstances, or other companies (cough Acorn cough Pixelmator) will see that lost business opportunity and do something about it. Nature abhors and all that.

Change is always annoying and disruptive, but the overall idea is that the new way has advantages over the old way. I personally think the advantages of cloud storage, cloud sync and cloud licensing are pretty obvious, but that's because I have a good understanding of where this is a good idea (iTunes) and where it isn't IMO (Adobe CC).

Lastly: as mentioned above, if you're on Lion or bought Lion, you have the option of re-downloading Lion. It's just not available to people who didn't do those things.
 
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Apple's recent elimination of optical drives from their notebooks and iMacs is a clear indication of how they perceive physical media.

It's not really just Apple. Optical media is approaching EOL. Everyone out there is provisioning to eliminate a near-dead technology. Just kind of the way it is.
 

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