Yet Another WiFi Signal Problem Question

Good Morning!
I'd like to apologize because this question has been addressed multiple times in this forum. But, many differing situations exist from the original posting members, so the answers vary. If you all don't mind lending your expertise to help me decide which solution is best for my problem, I certainly would appreciate your help.

I switched from AT&T's fiber optic version of DSL (UVerse) to Cable internet (because the price is more than 30.00 per month less for same speed). The AT&T wireless had no problem The Cable has problems which the provider, despite multiple trips, can not figure out nor offer suggestions to rectify. It only happens at night & they don't work at night. Hard to fix what they can't see.

At night, the speed is very slow, often less than 1kbps (yep- kilobits). We also get kicked off the network often, requiring Airport to be turned off, then on. The Airport bars are full-on. As the crow files, we are about 30 feet from the modem. One wall separates us, but has openings in it.

Many users are showing in the Airport drop down, but the neighbors' signal strength are all one bar or no bars. I can walk anywhere in the house & the problem remains, even if I'm two feet from the gateway/router/modem. Ethernet connection of our MacBook Pros directly to the gateway works fine. (Using 10.6.8 Vintage 2007 MacBook Pro units)

But, if I use iStumbler or KisMAC, some of the neighbors' signals show as much higher than mine. I tried various channels, but the other people move from channel to channel. I also made sure the gateway (Arris TG862G Docsis 3.0) is on full power.

What do you suggest I do to help rectify the problem, assuming it is fixable?
Here are my ideas-

A) Run new cable & ethernet lines (printer & desk top computer which is temporarily unhooked until this problem is fixed) to a new location. The gateway is in the basement about 50 cable-feet from where the computer is used (Mostly also in the basement- No walls between us) Project Scope = Fairly time consuming. Cost = Reasonable- Cable & Ethernet wire & fittings I probably already have (except for the cable)

B) Move the internet gateway above the rooms (Fish cables & ethernet to 2nd floor).
Project Scope = Huge Cost = Reasonable- Cable wire & fittings, plus ethernet stuff I probably already have (except for the cable)

C) Wired range extender closer to the point of use, with ethernet cable from the Arris modem to the extender.
Project Scope = Reasonably quick. Cost = Depends on the device you all recommend

D) Wireless range extender to try to overpower the neighbors. Project Scope = Simple
Cost = Depends on the equipment you all recommend.

E) Ethernet cables (2) run to rooms we use at night & plug in ethernet instead of wireless. Project Scope = Reasonable. Cost = minimal Problem = The Cable company said not to have any unused ethernet jacks. So during the day, these will sit unused while wireless works. I don't know if this messes things up.

So, am I on the right track, looking at these solutions or do you all think the problem lies somewhere else completely? Are there things I should try first?

Thanks Very Much for sharing your expertise!
Paul

If you are using the same router now as you were on AT&T, then the router simply isn't the problem here. If it was, you'd have been having signal interference all along. What you can do to prove this is use a wired ethernet connection from your computer to your router and disable the wireless radio if possible. If the problems persist despite having a wired connection, then that pretty much proves that.

Since you are having these problems only at night, then I think it's clear that your ISP's network node where you live is saturated during that time. Bear in mind that evenings are the peak activity hours, especially these days with Netflix being so popular. There are other options to explore, like replacing all the cabling. An older apartment I used to live in years ago had random disconnects and Time-Warner finally had to replace all the cabling in the building to address it. You may also need a signal booster placed in-line on the coax cable. I have one in my home that TW installed when I first got service here. Last thing to try is a different cable modem. Which reminds me now that I think about it... I had the same cable modem for nearly 10 years. I started having periodic problems with losing my connection and rebooting the modem and router would fix it for a bit. I eventually had TW replace the cable modem with a newer model and all is well now. I doubt this is your problem since your issues occur specifically at night.

Since you can't do anything about the network node being overloaded, if that's the problem, then I would start nipping at the other things. Try a wired connection as above to prove the router is not the problem. Next, replace the cable modem to rule that out as the culprit. If the problems persist, then consider replacing all the coax cabling and have a signal booster put in. Try to get your ISP to do this. Barring that, you may have to hire an electrician to get it done right. You have to be sure you are using the right kind of coaxial cable and a booster that supports the right frequency range.

I switched from AT&T's fiber optic version of DSL (UVerse) to Cable internet (because the price is more than 30.00 per month less for same speed). The AT&T wireless had no problem The Cable has problems which the provider, despite multiple trips, can not figure out nor offer suggestions to rectify. It only happens at night & they don't work at night. Hard to fix what they can't see.

Click to expand...

You received good advice from member "lifeisabeach" but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents here based on your statement above.

I underwent very similar problems to yours for well over a year using Charter as my ISP. Every evening the net would get saturated and my connection would slow to a crawl.

I now (actually for some time) use Verizon FIOS (fiber optic network) which is substantially more costly than Charter or TW. But it's well worth spending the extra $ for a steady fast connection any time of day. You mentioned above that the price is $30 less expensive for the same speed. The word "speed" here is relative, isn't it? Anyway, good luck getting things going again.

Thank You Both for taking time to reply with good thoughts!

The modem isn't the same as AT&T's, which can't use coaxial cable. The cable company (WOW) put in a new one & have replaced it twice since (one week since I subscribed). I think they were changing it as an effort to catch something they could not find, through no fault of the technicians. It doesn't act up during their business service hours (naturally). Yesterday, 5 minutes after the tech left- Bam! Crawl. The man tried very hard to determine the cause.

The cable from their pole connection to the demark point inside the house is new. It lands at a new splitter that goes to the TV system (which I disconnect completely while trying to get speed- Ruling out voltage back feed.) The cable from the splitter to the modem is also new from them (about 3 feet long).

Trying ethernet direct with wireless off is a great idea. I could not turn wireless off at the modem, as WOW does not give the gateway password to customers unless they buy high end TV service. But, 'somehow' I found out what it is, so I can get in now.

I will ethernet direct it tonight when it messes up. It should tell me System Too Crowded or Wireless Getting Stomped. (I hope!)

The tech last night changed my modem & locked me into a different channel (6). The last guy used 11 on a guess & it was very populated last night. The first two techs put it on automatic. So we're slowly trying all choices.

If it turns out to be wireless problem, I'll learn about the signal booster you mentioned, Lifeisabeach. Sounds like a possibly simple & effective solution.

I did find out that I can use a 10/100 switch with this modem, contrary to what the first 2 techs told me. My old switch was not configurable as access point. So, if the modem has to be moved, it just became much simpler. I'd only have to move one ethernet & one coaxial cable, back-feeding the switch to serve the others.

I investigated Verison FIOS that you mentioned Chsag. I agree with you that it would be wise to spend more to get proper service. Sadly, they don't have internet service in this area. If WOW can't get it working,maybe it will have to be back to AT&T. (Although I got a new Terms Of Service the other day & they said they are going to start throttling at their discretion.)

In my area, that leaves Comcast. We had them for TV-only for years, but the outages became hours long multiple times each day, along with constant digital breakups. I did look into them for internet & they, quite honestly, told me they throttle in this area because of overloading. A couple of neighbors said their TV service still has the outages.

I'll do some science project action on it tonight & see what happens. First, direct ethernet. If that passes, then I'll make a temporary move of the modem & see.
If I'm the biggest signal, yet still slow, I'll blame Netflix!

Thanks again to both ouf you. I'll report back on what I find.
Paul

PGB1 said:

I could not turn wireless off at the modem...

Click to expand...

Not the modem... the router. Unless you have a cable modem that is doubling as a wi-fi router. What exact modem do you have? And router, if you do have a separate device?

I guess I'm supposed to call it a "Gateway". It is a router & modem & phone modem all in one. I could (probably) be using the wrong terminology.
It is Arris Model Number TG862G/NA-8 (A rental from the cable company)

I use it for internet and telephone from the cable provider. Television does not pass through it.

I could not find this exact model number to get a User's Manual, but found one that's close.

It has an F Connector for the cable RF signal, (4) RJ-45 as bridged ethernet ports, a USB port (Not in use- don't know what that's used for), an RJ-14 and an RJ-11 jack for the telephone output.

I could not test ethernet direct last night when the service slowed, as the device is shutting off repeatedly, The cable company checked it & said a power-port is bad. They are scheduled to replace it tomorrow. Hopefully I can check it tonight if it stays on long enough.

Thanks!
Paul

Solved- I Think

Thank you Lifeisabeach & Chacag for your ideas & help with this problem. Thanks to you guys, I think I have things working well now.

Here's what I tested:
I installed KisMAC & watched the other wireless signals from neighbors. I tried from various places where my wife & I experienced slow night time speeds. I did this when the speed slowed. What I found was a 'triple header' of information I am guessing are the problems:

First Guess:
A signal from an SSID I'll call "ABC" is stronger than ours when the internet slows to a crawl (as shown on KisMAC).
As a frame of reference, if shown on an oscilloscope, if ours reached Level 10, his will be about Level 50 or 100. I believe his wireless device may be closer to our location than ours is. (I'm guessing it was his wireless because, in a room 20 feet from our house, as soon as the light in the window went off, our speed picked up) I don't know why his signal drops when he leaves. It still shows up- Just lower signal.

Second Guess:
Another SSID, as shown on KisMAC, I'll call "XYZ" would be lower than both ours & the ABC neighbor. But it will spike for several minutes at a time.

When it spikes, for reference, our signal will be "Level 10" & his will be huge at "Level 1000" or even more. His channel changes fast & sometimes he will be on Ch 6 with us. I don't know why it spikes nor how far away he is from us. Giant cordless phone?

I don't know the reason, but the Airport icon always shows everyone but us with one bar or not on the list at all, even when XYZ spikes. KisMAC will show them.

Third Is From You Guys:
You both mentioned heavy traffic- such as Netflix. To check that, I connected with ethernet when our wireless would be super slow, at about 9kpbs or 33kbps. I never did figure out how to turn off the radio in the gateway, so I turned off Airport & told the computer to use ethernet only.

Several speed tests showed below daytime speed, but not nearly as slow as wireless. Then at just about 11PM, we are back at fast. In the daytime, we get 15-16Mbps.

At night when the 'Netflix Phenomenon' (sounds like a horror movie) is happening, we're at 9-10Mbps, wired. We can live with that, no problem.

Possible Solution??
I tried moving our modem to a location closer to where we use the computers wirelessly at night. Almost all of the times I checked, we are at a higher signal level than the next door neighbor. (ABC) Sometimes, his is higher, but not 100% of the time. And, we're not super slow when his is higher.
The guy with the giant spike still shows up & massacres us, sometimes causing us to lose connection. I don't know if anything can be done about that other than ethernet direct when he's pumping a huge signal.

If you think it will help, I can put a metal 'ground plane' under the modem to reflect the signal, as is done with analog RF transmitters. (Don't know if this trick works at this frequency or with digital)

In an earlier entry, I was concerned about the disruption of re-cabling if I move the modem. I was over-thinking it.
All of the existing ethernet cables terminate in flush wall jacks, mostly at center or west end of the house. The existing source end (old modem location) is at the south-east corner.

So, the two ethernet cables I really want (Basement desk & printer) should be able to reach the new modem spot with minimal crabbiness. The RG-6 cable will be a bit of a challenge to do it permanently, but well worth the effort.

The only place that won't be easy to install ethernet (neatly) is where we mostly are working at night (and where XYZ murders our signal). But, it may be worth doing if the problem continues.

I'll leave the device in its Test Location for a few days & if all remains good, make it permanent.

Thank you both again for the help and education. I learned a lot during this process, with more education to come I'm sure!

Enjoy Today!
Paul

I'll point you to some sites that have tips for reducing wi-fi interference. I would also suggest that maybe the wi-fi feature of that gateway device just isn't very good at filtering out noise. If possible, you may want to consider getting a wireless router of your own, connect that by ethernet to the gateway, then have your devices connect direct to that (you'd probably need to disable the router feature of that device, if possible, so your connection passes straight through to your "new" router. I forget the exact term I'm thinking of here). Perhaps you should check with your ISP and see if they have an alternative to the gateway that you are using. Another option, as mentioned in one or more of the links I'm providing, is to get a repeater or 2 and spread them around your house.

How to Fix WiFi Interference Problems - For Dummies
Six Things That Block Your Wi-Fi, and How to Fix Them | PCWorld

https://startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl?language=english&query=solve wifi interference

Thanks Lifeisabeach!
The links you posted are very informative. I'm learning quite bit during this process. Now, if I can find a way to remember everything...

One of the cable technicians who was here told me this is their high-end internet gateway. He said it is the one they use for customers with wireless streaming on-demand video. That should have been my first clue that the system would be crowded at night.

Where I moved the mode/router (still don't know the real name, other than 'gateway') worked reasonably well last night when the airways were crowded. But, the second floor is not getting good signal & is slow. We don't use the room now, but will in a few months (when I'm done re-modeling).

There is an ethernet jack up there, so if it's needed I can re-route the source end to the new gateway location & it will be energized. The ethernet cables all end where the gateway used to be until I moved it.

I had a 10/100 switch which is not compatible with this new Arris modem/router. The cable company said I would need a switch which can be the "access point" but I haven't learned about that yet. If I can do this, nearly no ethernet cables have to get moved. The switch will go where the old one was & the modem will back-feed it from where it is now, via an ethernet jack that will be easy to move.

My guess is if the wireless is on the 2nd floor, the signal downstairs might be OK (versus the opposite as it is now) because a radio signal prefers to radiate down, as opposed to up. And, the ceiling above it has aluminum radiant barrier. Maybe it will bounce the signal down even more. Or, mess things up totally?

I liked your options of a repeater or router of my own. Perhaps a wireless router could be placed on the 2nd floor near the ethernet jack, to act as a 2nd transmitter/receiver. I'll have to keep studying this for a while. (The way I work, I've got time until the 2nd floor is ready to be my wife's Girl Cave.)

One of your links mentioned lowering my power output. Maybe I'll mess with that tonight & see what happens.

Thanks again & I'll post what I figure out. You guys really helped me get the speed to an acceptable level & pointed me toward total success!
Enjoy Today!
Paul