XP Blues

I'm in the process of starting my own consulting / service biz - handling both PCs and Macs ---------- after using Macs for almost a year (taking a break from PCs) ------ I'm just shocked at how fragile - clumsy - and just plain coo-coo XP is. How quickley you forget the past and come to expect and rely on simplicity and stability.

I bought a new high end Dell (E510 w/x86 hyper-threading) and a low end HP AMD Anthlon 64 for the biz - wow - I forgot how many annoying pop-ups occur from XP or all the crap software they bundle on new PCs. The Dell has even blue screened once. The E-510 is billed as an entertainment PC and I even ordered the Media Center version of XP - the system always has an annoying "POP" on the nice sound system I have attached when it powers up out of sleep state. A prime example of Dell saving 1 or 2 cents on a circuit design on the MB.

But mostly - shocked again - as I've been working on freinds PCs getting my PC / XP debug + service chops back up to speed. I've always kept my PC's updated and secure (firewalls - virus - spyware) - and I'm blown away at how fragile and suseptable these boxes are when just used by average Joe's and not kept secure.

But most importantly I've learned = if it ain't broke don't fix it. Fix the customers problem ---- don't try and change the way they do things (unless they are really fouling it up) because any deviation in how they run things may expose another fault that will pop up after you leave.

Hmm, my girlfriends grandfather got a PC not so long ago, bundled with Norton firewall and Norton anti virus. A few months later he was having a lot of problems and asked if i could have a look at it. He is on the internet at the most a half hour a week and the thing had 30 viruses and 5 spyware programs in it. So i did a re-install, maybe a monthly occurrence. :dive:

Sounds like user error.

mynameis said:

Sounds like user error.

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Yes, he doesn't know how the firewall or anti virus software work but then he is 90 so the fact that he's writing emails and internetting is good going !!

I would rather have 30 viruses on my computer than Norton...

Did you by chance look at what sites he was going to? It would be interesting to see where he is picking up that kind of stuff.

Ex_PC_Puke said:

I'm in the process of starting my own consulting / service biz - handling both PCs and Macs ---------- after using Macs for almost a year (taking a break from PCs) ------ I'm just shocked at how fragile - clumsy - and just plain coo-coo XP is. How quickley you forget the past and come to expect and rely on simplicity and stability.

I bought a new high end Dell (E510 w/x86 hyper-threading) and a low end HP AMD Anthlon 64 for the biz - wow - I forgot how many annoying pop-ups occur from XP or all the crap software they bundle on new PCs. The Dell has even blue screened once. The E-510 is billed as an entertainment PC and I even ordered the Media Center version of XP - the system always has an annoying "POP" on the nice sound system I have attached when it powers up out of sleep state. A prime example of Dell saving 1 or 2 cents on a circuit design on the MB.

But mostly - shocked again - as I've been working on freinds PCs getting my PC / XP debug + service chops back up to speed. I've always kept my PC's updated and secure (firewalls - virus - spyware) - and I'm blown away at how fragile and suseptable these boxes are when just used by average Joe's and not kept secure.

But most importantly I've learned = if it ain't broke don't fix it. Fix the customers problem ---- don't try and change the way they do things (unless they are really fouling it up) because any deviation in how they run things may expose another fault that will pop up after you leave.

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I find your comments particularly interesting, especially since most PC users (ex or not) will point out the strengths of both the Mac and PC, with the PC invariably being the much more robust system. It's always been a conclusion that I, as a sometime often PC user, have never been able to understand. To nearly a person (my brother included) they will explain to you that if the PC users really knows what they are doing things like Spyware and viruses are nearly nonexistent and that any monkey with a keyboard and a mouse can do it with little or no knowledge required. I've always viewed that a crock of Monkey poop.

Thanks for the input.

You cant avoid a virus on a PC i dont care how much you know. On average i would do a clean install of Xp every 3months. If you are a good PC user you will reinstall your OS clean at least once a year and tell your friends to do the samething. It the way that windows handles files and how un organized crap is on the computer and the fact that the add/remove crap doesnt work well at all and you are left with fragments of junk all over the place.

And i agree norton is a virus its self. I had more trouble with viruses when i used norton sine notron would throw a fit and try and fix it and always ended up deleting or messing up something in the system i run my PC without anit virus and only use the windows firewall. i do run adaware once a week to clean up spyware and that crap builds up fast.

As for what bothers me most on Xp is the anoying new found hardware that when you plug something it it says new found hareware locating install files and it keep beeping and making a dam sound saying new found hardware then it says the device name after 5seconds and beeps at you again. where as when i plug something into the mac i dont get an annoying new found hardware it just works, the mac doesnt make a peep i plug in my joystick and bam its working i plug in my camera bam iphoto opens.

Biturbo V12 AMG said:

You cant avoid a virus on a PC i dont care how much you know.

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There are a lot of people that will disagree with you on that.

The only Virus's I have gotten on my XP machines in say the past 3 years were a few random spam emails with Virus's attached that made it past the Spam Filter on SBC. I run AntiVir (The Free one) and it caught and killed every one and no damage to the machine. It's Spyware that is harder to not get, but if you stay away from IE and use Firefox or Opera, I have not had any spyware on any of my XP machines in a LONG time now and trust me, I do a lot of surfing. I mostly use my Macs for the Web these days, but still use the PC's a lot. IE seems to be the main entryway for a lot of Spyware from the Web. Otherwise with MY systems I have few problems. Now other people I know are always in trouble and calling me, but they will not listen either! The one next door that did and stopped using IE, never has problems anymore.

I still prefer the Mac for doing stuff on the net as I don't have to worry at all, but one can be fairly safe on an XP system if they take a few precautions.

mynameis said:

I would rather have 30 viruses on my computer than Norton...

Did you by chance look at what sites he was going to? It would be interesting to see where he is picking up that kind of stuff.

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No idea which sites he visits (probably all porn-JOKE). I did install firefox for him but he found it too confusing as he has had lessons with windows IE so he uses that. Got rid of Norton antivirus already and installed one of those free ones from the internet, can't remember which one but he's still using the Norton firewall (maybe i should get rid of that too, what do you think ? ).

At the end of the day, theirs nothing important in his computer. He doesn't order stuff online, so a clean install every few months should keep his computer happy, if not virus and spyware free. :doctor:

why dont you just install the McAfee security suite and then use "Hi Jack This" as the back up?

Thats all i ever did with my machine and didnt have to reinstall windows for nearly 3 years. It just goes to show that if you keep up with the maintainance then you dont have to keep reinstalling

Why should you have to keep up maintenance to run your computer. Would you be happy with your car if you had to have it serviced every month? You have to understand that most people are not technically minded and most people do not want to spend endless hours fiddling with their computer to make it work optimally. They just want to use it.

Being a I.T. technician myself, I moved to the Mac because I was spending far to much time rebooting my machine, installing new patches and rebooting, defragging my hard drive to make it run better, re-installing windows every now and then because it had come to a crawl, having windows run slow because you have anti-virus and anti-spyware software installed, the constant pop-ups from said programs about security this and that. All I wanted to do was support my users and do my web design work.

It's taken a while to get to know the Mac OS inside and out, but what a relief. Not only is it so much more robust and lets me get my work done, but it is also a much more comprehensive system once you get to the inards of its unix underpinnings.

As an example of stability, I installed my first Mac OS X Server about 6 months ago. I have had one call from them and it was a windows problem. Any windows server that I have ever supported even in large multi-national organisations, I have always had to do something to it atleast once every couple of months. Usually they run out of Virtual RAM, sometimes you have to install a new patch and re-boot, mostly it has a software bug that you have to spend hours finding out and then discover that their is another patch for it.

I can charge the same for an installation of a Mac server with support and make more money in the end because I spend less time supporting it.

Now I hate Windblows but I have never had a virus on my pc in 20 years, I have had spyware, but no viruses, knock on wood. Nowadays I pretty much use linux, still trying to buy my first Mac. I know once I get that Mac I will give up that windows forever. One program I have I just need that Window$.

I've never had a virus on windows, but that is because I don't open attachments in emails that are obviously virus' and I also set the firewall settings on from the default of off. But how many other people have you known that have had virus' because they clicked 'no' to the virus update software etc... because they work actually working? Slowly but surely I am converting my family members over to Macs so that I don't have to deal with their winging all the time and because I hate guiding them through the registry etc... over the phone.

I have fixed countless Windows pc's, but that is mostly user error, as for me I have my kids using Linux. That way I don't have to worry.

topshot said:

Why should you have to keep up maintenance to run your computer. Would you be happy with your car if you had to have it serviced every month? You have to understand that most people are not technically minded and most people do not want to spend endless hours fiddling with their computer to make it work optimally. They just want to use it.

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Well actually.. the same is the case for their cars. To make it run optimally its not a bad idea to get your oil changed every month.. there are always little tweaks you can do. Will it run? Yes. Optimally .. no. Will your computer run without tweaks.. yes. Optimally.. no.

Well...i don't think winblows xp is that bad...Even i am a Machead i have been using windows for...too many years and XP is a fine OS. The main problem is nothing but the percentage of people writing virus and spyware. Do you think they care to write spyware for Mac or Linux? not at all.
Windows is not insecure by itself, is the 80% of worldwide windows users whos spyware and viruses are targeted to...not the rest 3-5% of mac or linux users.
I have not had any virus in a long time and the spyware is so difficult to avoid that you get little infections from time to time. Just look what you are downloading and use a good AV which stops scripts, activeX and browser hijacks.
Right now i'm much more worried about those security updates on OSX comming so quickly i couldn't install them fast enough. (blink)
I agree: Symantec suuuuucks a lot.

We have over 400 Windows PC's at my office, including some public use labs, and I have yet to hear of one infection by a virus or mailware. Why? Because our IT guys set the stuff up right to begin with.

Personally, I support over 20 computers on the side, and I have only had one computer get infected with a virus since SP2 came out. That user was running Norton/Symantec antivirus. For most people, I just setup a free AV program and a free spyware blocker.

Ex_PC_Puke said:

But most importantly I've learned = if it ain't broke don't fix it. Fix the customers problem ---- don't try and change the way they do things (unless they are really fouling it up) because any deviation in how they run things may expose another fault that will pop up after you leave.

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Hehe, you're catching on! One of the first computers I ever fixed was my Grandma's. She had to have had 40+ icons on her desktop. I dumped them all into a folder and organized the programs into folders in the Start button menu and proudly showed her my work. She flipped out because she knew where everything was. With my changes, she was completely lost. I had to change everything back to the way it was to "fix" it. Oh well.

My personal PC-philosophy is this: When you first buy or build a PC, wipe the drive, reinstall XP, and create a custom restore disc with all of your drivers, apps, & settings. Then, run the following maintenance every week: (basically run one program every morning when you first boot your system)

• Monday - AdAware (update & scan)
• Tuesday - Spybot (update & scan)
• Wednesday - AVG Anti-virus (auto-update & scan)
• Thursday - Windows Update (download & restart as necessary)
• Friday - Disk Cleanup (select all & run)
• Saturday - Disk Defragmenter (Set to Defrag & don't touch until finished)

It's sad that you have to do this much work just to keep your machine clean & running well, but that's the price you have to pay to run a Windows machine. I have a good tutorial on how to use Norton Ghost to create a custom Windows installation discs here: http://restore.wiredby.com

All of those applications are free, by the way. I've spent a lot of money on various anti-virus and firewall programs only to find that the free ones are the best. I use ZoneAlarm for my firewall; this tells me what is accessing my computer and the Internet and lets me decide if I want to let it do that. I use AVG Antivirus Free Edition for virus scanning; I set it to auto-update every morning and only run when I tell it to (I hate stuff running in the background). I also use AdAware and Spybot (both free) to handle adware and spyware (no one program that I have ever used has gotten everything). Those applications are, of course, only necessary if you machine uses the Internet or an insecure network. For normal computer maintenance, Windows updates, disk cleanup, and disk defrag will keep Windows running smoothly. You'll need an Internet connection for Windows updates, unless you're a big fan of the update/service pack CDs Windows XP is a lot better than previous versions, but I prefer OS X any day over it, even though I only "switched" last month.

Most of the people in this forum are more 'techie' than the general population. You have to remember that 95% of computer users are more like your 80 year old grandmother than you.

Buy a TV, plug it in and hook the cable to it. Turn it on and it just works. Anyone can do it. New TVs are getting more and more complicated and my mom sometimes changes a source or other setting and requires help to get it working again. She hates newer hi-tech TVs.

Appliances should just 'work' and should require minimal maintenance. You only turn a toaster over to shake out the crumbs every few months, if that often. Your coffee maker just requires running clean water through it every so often. Your microwave just needs to be wiped clean.

Enter the computer. I used Windows machines and became all my friends and family's personal tech support starting back with Windows v3. I keep my hand in the game keeping my team's PCs at work functioning instead of 3 days downtime waiting for our IT department to show up. (Make an appointment before you let it crash).

I never much cared for the Mac OS. 2 years ago I had never used OS X and harrassed a friend that swore by his Mac. Due to an error in procurement, I ended up with a Dual G5 on my desk with 2-23" monitors. As a designer, graphic artist and programmer, I found my first experience with OSX to be wonderful. Within 6 months, I had sold, dumped or tossed 6 PCs from my house that took hours a week to keep running. They were NOT like appliances and require a fair amount of knowledge to keep running. OS Reloads when it finally crawls to a halt, driver issues, spyware, viruses, defragging....it's just too much for the normal user. The Mac? It's an appliance.

Out of the box it just works. OS reloads are unnessesary, no defragging, viruses, spyware, driver problems...just plug in a device and it works. My 88 year old grandpa can keep it running by doing nothing. The OS is much better than Windows (any version) and is easier to administer by an order of magnatude. My one complaint is that any software install should repair permissions at the end, automatically. It's the only maintenance item and it should be automatic, eliminating any maintenance outside software updates.

We have 2 Mac laptops now and are about to buy a 20" iMac (Intel). I have converted both my parents, brother, grandparents and many others to the Mac. I spend zero time performing maintenance or talking them through getting something working now. My grandparents are the least self-sufficient and might drag an icon off the dock loosing access to a program. I set them up with a locked down account they can't mess up and perform updates to the OS when I visit.

You can believe that Windows in any flavor looks better or does more than OS X. I disagree but it's subjective. You cannot say, with a straight face, that Windows can be maintained by the average user. Every one of those average users has a 'techie' friend that helps them, either by fee or as-in my case, obligation. How many hours do each of you spend helping your average friends keep their system working, getting it back running or diagnosing weird issues? People with Mac friends will answer 'little' if any. Windows friends will suck your weekends, evenings and life away with requests for 'free' support.

Why do people let Microsoft abuse them like this? There is an alternative that works and it's compatable with all your windows files and formats. Applications are plentiful (never run into anything that wasn't available or had an alternative on the Mac) and are often, more user friendly than the Windows versions.

As for security...Mac is the Holy Grail for hackers. The first person to get a virus or spyware to spread on a Mac will be a hacker god in that community. It's not lack of people trying, it's UNIX.

I now return you to your usual post reading.