Mountain Lion is the last straw.

OP
H
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
63
Reaction score
0
Points
6
This post does seem to have attracted quite a lot of attention. Many on the fence, many defending Apples drive to push out new hardware. Some of my comments may have been a bit broad, and attracted criticism. The min specs for Windows 7 was posted to raise a few eye brows and was more of a generalisation than a hard fact. Fact is majority of desktop machines 10 years old will run Windows 7 albeit a little slow (not running on a G4 mac is a given as the posted spec said x86). Deckyon for instance seems to be missing the point of my post a little and doesn't seems to understand the difference between business model and technical innovation.

Sure not all computers will run Win 7 at this spec. If they do, they will indeed be a little on the slow side. Thing is were talking about machines built over 10 years ago (often at half the cost) and the hundreds of thousands of different hardware designs will of course mean that some hardware is not supported. With apple were not even talking of hundreds of different hardware architectures.

Apple are actively choosing to not support systems more than 5 years old not because of technical limitations, but because at some time in the past it was said that a computer should give 5 years of use. There will of course be 'hacks' which allow older machines to bypass 'technical checks', but these only go to show that this is for financial purposes and NOT technical.

Apple has a very small repertoire of hardware which they need to support and they of course want you to buy new hardware. If I have a piece of hardware I'd prefer to upgrade/replace it when I feel it is too long in the tooth, not when apple decide to pull the plug. Sure running Snow Leopard instead of Mountain Lion is not going to make my machine unusable, but the tweaks in the OS which make it nicer to use certainly make the experience more enjoyable. I'm not sure how long it would take for developers to drop support for Snow Leopard and I'm sure that's a good few years off, but if Apple had there way they'd certainly make it happen.

Apple has become very successful because of its innovation and its business model. Its innovation is certainly admirable. However its business model seems to overstep the mark. I don't like to be treated as a cash cow.

I also feel the ecological consequences of this '5 year lifecycle' is highly questionable! I love OSX. The fluidity and usability of it makes it my favourite OS. My issues has more to do with principal than serious practicalities. Legacy support should not be used as an excuse to drive sales in the way it has. Do you really want to defend this practice on Apples behalf?

Can I live with Linux Mint or some other variant if it saves me money and and gives me freedom as a matter of principal? For my use, I'm sure I could quite easily step out of my comfort zone a little. The only products I might miss would be a few of Adobe's perhaps (Creative Suite for Linux is hopefully in the pipeline). Linux has come a long way, it's not OSX, but it's certainly got a fair box of tricks and shouldn't be immediately dismissed. I'm not saying bye to OSX just yet, but I'm certainly going to be giving Linux a bit more of my time now.
 

vansmith

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
19,924
Reaction score
559
Points
113
Location
Queensland
Your Mac's Specs
Mini (2014, 2018, 2020), MBA (2020), iPad Pro (2018), iPhone 13 Pro Max, Watch (S6)
I also feel the ecological consequences of this '5 year lifecycle' is highly questionable!
I seem to be the only one here who has adopted a four year cycle. Perhaps this would explain why I don't seem to care as much.

Can I live with Linux Mint or some other variant if it saves me money and and gives me freedom as a matter of principal? For my use, I'm sure I could quite easily step out of my comfort zone a little. The only products I might miss would be a few of Adobe's perhaps (Creative Suite for Linux is hopefully in the pipeline). Linux has come a long way, it's not OSX, but it's certainly got a fair box of tricks and shouldn't be immediately dismissed. I'm not saying bye to OSX just yet, but I'm certainly going to be giving Linux a bit more of my time now.
Linux is a different beast and arguably, is more ruthless when it comes to system requirements. GNOME3 and Unity are 3D accelerated (although there is a 2D version of Unity and the most recent version of GNOME3 leverages the CPU more now) as is MGSE and because of this, they require a fairly modern GPU to work. If you don't have one, you have to use either the 2D version which never gets quite the same amount of attention or you have to suffer through KDE (I guess I just made my position on the GTK/QT divide obvious ;)). Given that, I'd say that Apple looks relatively tame in terms of system requirements.

Let's take a look at Unity as an example of what I mean. Although it runs on a GPU that is nearly eight years old (see here for the results of some testing done by the Ubuntu community), it still requires 128MB of VRAM. From where I sit, that seems excessive to power just the desktop. GNOME3 is arguably more demanding than this, requiring a computer that is no more than four or five years old (source).
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
1,291
Reaction score
43
Points
48
Location
Louisville, KY - USA
Your Mac's Specs
MBP 17" 2011, 2.3GHz Intel Quad-Core i7, 8GB RAM, MacMini 2011, 2.7GHz Intel Dual-Core i7, 8GB RAM
I seem to be the only one here who has adopted a four year cycle. Perhaps this would explain why I don't seem to care as much.

Actually, I generally only keep notebooks (brand doesnt matter) for 3 years, desktops for 4 depending on if the mainboard can take faster processors.
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
4,695
Reaction score
73
Points
48
Location
houston texas
Your Mac's Specs
09 MBP 8GB ram 500GB HD OS 10.9 32B iPad 4 32GB iPhone 5 iOs7 2TB TC Apple TV3
Actually I upgrade every 4yrs because there seems to be enough of a performance gain to justify the cost besides new hardware or interface.
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
3,494
Reaction score
204
Points
63
Location
Going Galt...
Your Mac's Specs
MacBookAir5,2:10.13.6-iMac18,3:10.13.6-iPhone9,3:11.4.1
I upgrade when something shiny and sexy comes out. It's all about form, not function. I do whatever I am instructed to do by marketing campaigns.
 
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
74
Reaction score
1
Points
8
Location
Central CA
Your Mac's Specs
MBP 15, 2.2ghz, 4G ram 10.9
I try to keep my systems as up-to-date as possible and after about 4 years call it good. Plus I enjoy looking at the new options and candy available on a newer system.

On the plus side, the overall cost of computers has not changed much in the last 10+ years. A new "average" system still costs around $1,000. Granted you can buy cheaper or go larger, but the overall cost of a system has stayed roughly the same. You can't say that about the last car you bought.
 
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
3,343
Reaction score
213
Points
63
Location
Forest Hills, NYC
Your Mac's Specs
15-inch Early 2008; Processor 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo; Memory 4 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM; 10.7.5
i upgrade when something shiny and sexy comes out. It's all about form, not function. I do whatever i am instructed to do by marketing campaigns.

all your base are belong to us! :$
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
4,695
Reaction score
73
Points
48
Location
houston texas
Your Mac's Specs
09 MBP 8GB ram 500GB HD OS 10.9 32B iPad 4 32GB iPhone 5 iOs7 2TB TC Apple TV3
I got a good laugh when a friend of mine always boasted about how he could keep updating his PC and I could only change my ram and hard drive when he tried to update his processor and move to a higher MHz ram only to find out his motherboard would not support the move.
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
I would upgrade every maybe 4 years if I had the $$$ to do so. For people like me and others without a lot of spare $$$, HAVING to upgrade when one can not is not cool! :D

Great post Doug btw! :D Grin
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
4,773
Reaction score
166
Points
63
Location
Central New York
Your Mac's Specs
15in i7 MacBook Pro, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD, 500GB HD
My current computer, the MBP, is just over a year old, but the only reason I got it is via work. Otherwise I'd have a 4.5year old iMac. My media center is run on a 3 year old Mini and I plan on letting that run until it dies. It runs the software I need (Plex) and it runs it just fine. I haven't even bothered to update it to Lion yet.
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
My current computer, the MBP, is just over a year old, but the only reason I got it is via work. Otherwise I'd have a 4.5year old iMac. My media center is run on a 3 year old Mini and I plan on letting that run until it dies. It runs the software I need (Plex) and it runs it just fine. I haven't even bothered to update it to Lion yet.

Late 2007 iMac here maxed out. Does everything I need with Lion and will run ML. Notebook though is also a Late 2007 Macbook with Santa Rosa Chipset and 4GB RAM. Does everything I need it do and just fine in 10.7.4 Lion. ML won't install out of the box but works great with one file edited and a 64-Bit video driver for the GMA-3100. I also use my Mini as a Media server and it works great. I know it will not run ML though, probably not even with that edited file as it's limited to 2GB RAM and that is a bit tight for even Lion, but does work as long as I don't power multitask! :D
 

RavingMac

Well-known member
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
8,303
Reaction score
242
Points
63
Location
In Denial
Your Mac's Specs
16Gb Mac Mini 2018, 15" MacBook Pro 2012 1 TB SSD
I have a 2009 Mini and a 2007 MBP. Both are adequate to my needs, but I get more spinning beach balls in Aperture than I like.
I plan on upgrading for more horsepower (and probably switching to Lightroom as well) within the year. What I upgrade to depends a whole lot on what is announced Monday.
I will definitely watch the Keynote when it is posted . . . :D
 
C

chas_m

Guest
My 2007 BlackBook was not going to be able to run Mountain Lion and for a variety of other reasons (though I loved it) I decided to move on. One of the biggest reasons was a long-time weakness that had grown progressively worse and worse -- and was PRECISELY why Apple chose not to support my model for Mountain Lion (even if it is technically possible as someone here mentioned).

The SUCKY graphics chipset.

Now, when I bought the machine in 2007, the sucky graphics chipset was the best graphics system I'd owned to that point, and it was fine for a couple of years. My machine only supported 3GB of RAM max but I did fine with that (but of course I knew better than to buy CS5 or anything crazy like that).

Then Google Earth came out. My machine could never run it well.

Then 1080p became popular. I could barely run it, and dropped frames like crazy (720p seemed to be its limit).

Then the cavalcade of casual-but-graphically-intense games started coming along (like Braid or Cave Story+, stuff along those lines). Flat-out wouldn't run. Final Cut Pro? HAHAHAHA.

Over the years, this got worse and worse. And it will keep on getting worse and worse.

THAT is why Apple isn't going to support the sucky video chipset (the Intel GMA 950) in Mountain Lion. Not because they don't like you, or gleefully plan to "force" (hahaha) you into buying a new machine.

So go ahead, hack your copy of Mountain Lion to make it run on your BlackBook as it was implied is possible. Then try running Google Earth and get back to me on how high-quality your experience is.
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
Remember, I don't have a Blackbook and don't have a GMA950 and do not have 3GB Ram either in my Macbook. :D
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Updating

I run into this all the time with my iMac PPC and my Mac Mini PPC, plus Intel Mini and an iMac Intel machine, so now I have 2 Leopard computers 1 Snow Leopard, a Lion, Linux Mint and an HP Windows 7 and these upgrades are making me insane. Someone should slap an engineer, any engineer will do they love changing things. lol
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
252
Reaction score
7
Points
18
Your Mac's Specs
15" rMBP Mid-2014 ~ iPad 4 16GB ~ iPhone 6 Plus 16GB
Ok, so let's blame Apple when in 5 years time we can't run some new internet technology or when a new game is released that needs horsepower. Does Apple owe anyone a ML update? Your machine came with whatever OS was current at the time - that OS is no longer current, but your machine will run it happily for many years.

My 32" Sony LCD TV bought in 2007 looks like a relic compared to TVs out in the market. Gee, Sony did me in. Where are the smart TV functions on my TV?

My car has been replaced by a new model that's more powerful and efficient. Why can't I upgrade to that engine or that engine management system? Those German rip-offs!

My iPad 1 that I'm typing on is already a little slow with 5.0.1, lacks cameras, etc. Dont even know if it'll support iOS 6. But it had better - even at the expense of innovation. Keep me current, nobody out there wants 3D graphics or Siri or Retina displays...

Technology moves on and it happens absolutely everywhere. Deal with it.
 

dtravis7


Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
30,133
Reaction score
703
Points
113
Location
Modesto, Ca.
Your Mac's Specs
MacMini M-1 MacOS Monterey, iMac 2010 27"Quad I7 , MBPLate2011, iPad Pro10.5", iPhoneSE
My iPad 1st Gen runs BLAZING fast with 5.0.1.

My Unsupported Macbook with one edit runs ML smooth as Lion and maybe even smoother. That is a fact.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Actually, Apple does owe me an update, and I would like Steve Wozniak to give it to me. I don't think that is asking to much.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
252
Reaction score
7
Points
18
Your Mac's Specs
15" rMBP Mid-2014 ~ iPad 4 16GB ~ iPhone 6 Plus 16GB
My iPad 1st Gen runs BLAZING fast with 5.0.1.

My Unsupported Macbook with one edit runs ML smooth as Lion and maybe even smoother. That is a fact.

Hmm, is mine actually that slow...or is it me looking for a reason to buy a new iPad? ;D

So if that's the case (Macbook), then why all the whining here? What did the edit entail?
 

Shop Amazon


Shop for your Apple, Mac, iPhone and other computer products on Amazon.
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon and affiliated sites.
Top