USB 3.0 External HDs Freezing when Copying Files, Then Finder Freezes.

Hello MacForums,

New member here, very happy to join the community, really hoping I can get my issue resolved with your help!

So here's my specs, first off:

MBP (Late 2011)
2.5 Ghz i7
16GB RAM
OSX 10.7.3
750 GB HDD (~60% full)

External:
1 x WD 2TB USB3 HDD - MOSX Ext (Journaled) - Apple Partition Map (Previously GUID with same issues)
1 x SeaGate 3TB USB3 HDD - MOSX Ext (Journaled) - GUID

Both connected via powered USB hub, but this problem also occurs when connected directly.

PROBLEM:
When I try to transfer folders from one drive to another, the copy process hangs at what seems to be an arbitrary point. Right now, it's hung at 9.7 of 72.29 GB, with 74, 300 items remaining.

If I stop the copy job, it will show "Stopping" but never actually stop.

Also, at this point, neither of the drives will unmount or eject (busy).

Nor will Finder respond. Basically Finder freezes. If I try to relaunch, the folders I have on my desktop disappear, my drives won't show up (Internal or External) and I can't launch a new Finder.

The only way out I've found for this is a hard power-down.

This MBP is BRAND NEW, (call it Box C) out of the box two days ago, after going through this saga with a previous new but refurbished unit with the exact same specs (call it Box B). Between the exchange, I spent over 12 hours with phone and in-person support.

Some history - My previous previous (2 computers ago - call it Box A) setup was OSX 10.6. Box A got stolen, and I purchased the refurb - Box B - to replace it. Box B came with Lion, and I restored to it from my TM, which had only been backed up from Box A with Snow Leopard. I restored Box C from a TM backup I had done from Box B (Lion, but previously restored from SL) Might this be a factor?

I need these drives for media storage, and currently have no redundant backup. VERY nervous about this.

Please help!!

Thanks for your time.

Also, I've attempted and succeeded with multiple reformats of each of the HDs, and the problem still persists.

I've attempted and succeeded to verify and repair permissions on both of the HDs. Often they don't need any repair.

Also, very often, if I try to acces media files off the drives - video or audio - they won't preview and they'll freeze during playback.

Sorry for the seemingly self-serving thread bumps, just adding in factors that might be useful to know.

One thing seems to be helping the issue - I can copy sub-folders much more consistently than the root folders. For example, I have a root folder on the SeaGate called AllSound. trying to copy that over to the newly formatted WD drive results in a hang and freeze. But if I copy individual subfolders from within AllSound from the SeaGate to a newly created folder on the WD, they copy over fine, even if very large: Just got done copying over "Sample Banks" - 53 GB - without a hitch.

Hmmm...

Do you mean formatting is Mac OS Extended (Journalled) which should be GUID for Intel machines? Are you transferring files from one external to the other? Or from internal to one or the other externals? If so have a read of this link particularly where it mentions Seagate drives not rock steady via USB:-


http://ask.metafilter.com/168756/Hard-Drive-to-Hard-Drive-transfer-fail-error-36

There is no USB3 on your Mac and at times hubs can be quite difficult.

harryb2448 said:

Do you mean formatting is Mac OS Extended (Journalled) which should be GUID for Intel machines? Are you transferring files from one external to the other? Or from internal to one or the other externals? If so have a read of this link particularly where it mentions Seagate drives not rock steady via USB:-


Hard Drive to Hard Drive transfer fail: error 36? - harddrive seagate datatransfer | Ask MetaFilter

There is no USB3 on your Mac and at times hubs can be quite difficult.

Click to expand...

Thanks HarryB!

To clarify-

The WD is formatted as MOSX Extended (Journaled) - Apple Partition Map
The SeaGate is MOSX Extended (Journaled) - GUID

I'm copying from the SeaGate to the WD.

While the output ports on these drives are USB3, I'm using the included cables that are standard USB2.0 on one end.

The problem is occurring both when using a hub and when connecting both external drives directly to the USB ports on the MBP.

I chose to re-format the SeaGate with the Apple Partition Map just to see if it performed differently than the WD with the GUID. So far it's working, but I'm not sure that my choice of APM over GUID is the reason why...

Both of these drives are meant to be a file archive, but I do want to access audio and video files from them regularly. Ideally, only one will be connected at a time, with the other completely disconnected and stored away safely in case of a failure of the currently connected drive.

Again, thanks for the tip Harry - I'm reading the article you recommended next, and will continue to report on my progress.

Anyone else has any ideas, please do chime in!

On the advice of a poster from the article suggested by HarryB, I tried installing and using SuperDuper. It hung, froze, and I had to hard boot.

Sigh.

This is becoming the really big thorn in my side. Any other help would be greatly appreciated.

Installing on what? Suggest the WD should really be setup as GUID.

harryb2448 said:

Installing on what? Suggest the WD should really be setup as GUID.

Click to expand...

I installed SuperDuper on my MBP's HD, same place as all the rest of my Applications.

And prior to my most recent attempts, the WD was formatted with GUID. Errors copying to the WD from the SeaGate occurred as described in first post, and were reduced in severity by reformatting it with APM.

I know, doesn't seem to make much sense that APM would work with less freezing than GUID, but that's what's been happening so far.

Copy files problems

I have exactly the same issue - does anyone have any answers?

I'm using a new Seagate 3TB drive which appears to have no problems. When I copy files they freeze at some random point and finder goes haywire. Time Machine is also not doing it's thing - freezing after a while and also requiring a hard reboot. I see lots of messages from ndeep, but so far no useful replies!

I have been having the same issue for weeks. Reformatting, moving files individually, call to WD support, removing the .DS_Store files, even resaving troublesome files and I'm still locking up the finder just trying to copy files. I've even bought new HDs thinking that I just got a bad batch but the problem keeps persisting. If anyone figures this out, please let me know! Thanks.

Experiencing same issue, El Capitan

Thanks for your post - I am experiencing the same problem, on a 2013 iMac 27" running El Capitan. Have you been able to resolve this problem? In my case I have a 2TB WD external drive and a 5TB Seagate external drive. The problem is with the Seagate drive - and only with this Mac. I have tried plugging the Seagate into two other Macs and have not had any issues cloning the drives or copying files over. I've already returned and replaced this drive and still experiencing the same problem. The Seagate is formatted as MOSX Ext Journaled (there is no longer a GUID option in El Cap).

Thanks!

ndeep said:

Thanks HarryB!

To clarify-

The WD is formatted as MOSX Extended (Journaled) - Apple Partition Map
The SeaGate is MOSX Extended (Journaled) - GUID

I'm copying from the SeaGate to the WD.

While the output ports on these drives are USB3, I'm using the included cables that are standard USB2.0 on one end.

The problem is occurring both when using a hub and when connecting both external drives directly to the USB ports on the MBP.

I chose to re-format the SeaGate with the Apple Partition Map just to see if it performed differently than the WD with the GUID. So far it's working, but I'm not sure that my choice of APM over GUID is the reason why...

Both of these drives are meant to be a file archive, but I do want to access audio and video files from them regularly. Ideally, only one will be connected at a time, with the other completely disconnected and stored away safely in case of a failure of the currently connected drive.

Again, thanks for the tip Harry - I'm reading the article you recommended next, and will continue to report on my progress.

Anyone else has any ideas, please do chime in!

Click to expand...

whiteship1 said:

Thanks for your post - I am experiencing the same problem, on a 2013 iMac 27" running El Capitan. Have you been able to resolve this problem? In my case I have a 2TB WD external drive and a 5TB Seagate external drive. The problem is with the Seagate drive - and only with this Mac. I have tried plugging the Seagate into two other Macs and have not had any issues cloning the drives or copying files over. I've already returned and replaced this drive and still experiencing the same problem. The Seagate is formatted as MOSX Ext Journaled (there is no longer a GUID option in El Cap).

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Just a bit of info for you... Seagate drives (especially the larger ones) have got the highest failure rates of any of the popular drives that are available. I refuse to buy one, however, your 2013 iMac very likely has an internal Seagate drive installed by Apple (unless you opted for a SSD instead). If at all possible, return the Seagate and purchase another brand of the same capacity. I know you said that the same drive works with two other Macs but you have already swapped it out for another and have the same problem. Seagate drives are just flakey in my opinion. Unfortunately, I too own a 2013 27" iMac with an internal Seagate drive installed. Which is why I make daily backups using CCC and Time Machine. By the way, GUID is automatic with the new Disk Utility in El Capitan. And since this thread is rather old, you may not get a response from the original poster.

chscag said:

Just a bit of info for you... Seagate drives (especially the larger ones) have got the highest failure rates of any of the popular drives that are available. I refuse to buy one, however, your 2013 iMac very likely has an internal Seagate drive installed by Apple (unless you opted for a SSD instead). If at all possible, return the Seagate and purchase another brand of the same capacity. I know you said that the same drive works with two other Macs but you have already swapped it out for another and have the same problem. Seagate drives are just flakey in my opinion. Unfortunately, I too own a 2013 27" iMac with an internal Seagate drive installed. Which is why I make daily backups using CCC and Time Machine. By the way, GUID is automatic with the new Disk Utility in El Capitan. And since this thread is rather old, you may not get a response from the original poster.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply! Yes I've heard about the flakiness of the drives from Mike Bombich of CCC, after I discussed this with him (when this was first happening with the first Seagate). I was hoping that a new drive would solve the issue but it has not. My internal drive is an SSD, so no issues there. I don't think I have an option to get a refund on the drive, but if I can I guess I could try a LaCie (not many other makers of large capacity external hard drives out there these days).

I don't think I have an option to get a refund on the drive, but if I can I guess I could try a LaCie (not many other makers of large capacity external hard drives out there these days).

Click to expand...

Well, if you spoke with Mike Bombich the developer of CCC, then you have some idea about Seagates. Good move on your part having an SSD in your iMac. I wish I had done the same thing. As far as LaCie goes, you just don't know what make drive is installed in their carriers. It could be any one of the major brands as LaCie does not manufacture drives. You might want to go to Mac Sales (www.macsales.com) and look around there as they stock various drives including their own.

Thanks for the link and ideas. I know that Seagate owns LaCie, plus they bought Samsung's drive biz, while WD owns Hitachi's. I have an external Fantom/Green Drive too and I found it quirky in its compatibility with the Mac. Doesn't leave us with very many options. Well so far Seagate's customer service has been pretty responsive, so let's see what they say. You've been very helpful, thank you!

chscag said:

Well, if you spoke with Mike Bombich the developer of CCC, then you have some idea about Seagates. Good move on your part having an SSD in your iMac. I wish I had done the same thing. As far as LaCie goes, you just don't know what make drive is installed in their carriers. It could be any one of the major brands as LaCie does not manufacture drives. You might want to go to Mac Sales (www.macsales.com) and look around there as they stock various drives including their own.

Click to expand...

OK Here's an update. I spoke with Seagate about this and their initial response was (believe it or not): "Copy fewer files at a time". I was like, "really?? That's like telling me I should only make right turns in my car!". Anyway after about half an hour of explaining, they told me that their Mac-formatted drives only come in up to 4TB models, whereas the PC formatted ones (like the one I bought) go to 5TB. Obviously if there were no hardware difference between the two this wouldn't be the case. But in any case they sent me another 5TB drive (PC-formatted) from their "newest lots". I just tried it and it basically has the same issue. Looking closely at my test copy of a 50GB folder, it copied the first 3 or so GB relatively fast, then it started slowing down dramatically. By the time I decided I'd had enough, it had copied 39GB after FOUR HOURS. And I have been waiting 20 minutes for the copy to "stop". This is clearly not acceptable. There is no opportunity for a refund, since I bought it through Amazon and it has been more than 30 days (and Seagate won't refund). Something tells me that the driver is messed up. I suppose I can try to have them replace it with their 4TB Mac-formatted drive but I paid for a 5TB. This drastic slowdown in copy performance is something I've found all over the interwebs but no real solution is available; the cables are new, the drive is directly connected, and Spotlight indexing is disabled for that drive. Any other ideas about this?

Earlier you said this: "there is no longer a GUID option in El Cap" but that is not true. The GUID option is under the partition menu. But in your last post you said this: "Something tells me that the driver is messed up." What driver? If yo used DU to partition and format the drive, there shouldn't be a "driver" you have to install. All you should have to do is attach the drive, partition it and format it with DU, then it will work natively with OS X. No driver (other than apple's) is needed.

MacInWin said:

Earlier you said this: "there is no longer a GUID option in El Cap" but that is not true. The GUID option is under the partition menu. But in your last post you said this: "Something tells me that the driver is messed up." What driver? If yo used DU to partition and format the drive, there shouldn't be a "driver" you have to install. All you should have to do is attach the drive, partition it and format it with DU, then it will work natively with OS X. No driver (other than apple's) is needed.

Click to expand...

You're right - what I didn't mention initially is that since the drive shipped as a Windows drive, I installed the Seagate-supplied Paragon driver for NTFS, which is what they recommended. That's when I experienced what happened above. Next I formatted it using DU and tried the copies again. The copies actually completed successfully this time, although it did feel like they took longer than I would expect. In the end when I cloned the entire drive (1.07 TB copied in just under 13 hours), the average copy rate was around 24 MB/s, which doesn't sound like a whole lot (copying from SSD via USB 3). I did try it on 2 other Macs and experienced similar performance. Does this sound right to you?

Can't say. My machine has USB2 ports, and although I have a Thunderbolt USB3 bridge, there are too many variables to say what to expect. Maybe someone with a USB3 system will chime in.

In future, more information is better than less, as you have seen.