Downgrading New Mac Pro to Snow Leopard

G'day and welcome to the forums.

You cannot go backwards period. That applies to all models not just the Mac Pro and have never heard of people not stomaching Lion.

harryb2448 said:

G'day and welcome to the forums.

You cannot go backwards period. That applies to all models not just the Mac Pro and have never heard of people not stomaching Lion.

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You don't use Spaces do you? Spaces is the number one reason why I've considered dropping back to Snow Leopard. It is horribly borked in Lion.

No it isn't. I use Spaces all day in Lion and it works exactly like it used to ... the only difference being that management of Spaces was centralized in Lion, but as I've already set up my spaces as I like I barely even noticed this.

Going "Backwards"

harryb2448 said:

G'day and welcome to the forums.

You cannot go backwards period. That applies to all models not just the Mac Pro and have never heard of people not stomaching Lion.

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A hardy G'Day back to you. And thanks for the welcome.

Although unadvised by Apple, one can certainly install a previous version than the OS which shipped with a Mac. This usually involves Target Disk Mode, or switching out HDDs. The problem with downgrading the OS on a Mac which has undergone any hardware changes subsequent to the older OS version – means certain drivers and/or extensions will not be present in the install. This can result in anomalies (minor or major), which may only be remedied by switching back to the OS which shipped with the Mac, or a newer one.

My question specifically addresses the fact that the Currently Shipping Mac Pro [5,1], has not had any hardware upgrades since it was released in mid 2010. If you buy a new Mac Pro today; it will be identical to the one you bought before Lion was released. In fact some currently stocked Mac Pros will come with 10.6 installed, along with a 10.7 DVD.

When or if a new Mac Pro is released with Thunderbolt – things will be different.

Yet, today; my question remains: Given a new Mac Pro 5,1 which shipped with Lion installed – Will it behave itself once reverted back to Snow Leo, the OS which originally was shipped with the MP 5,1. Or has Apple amended the firmware in such a way to cause problems beyond using a 10.6 install disk?

Thanks to all.

Pixelbender said:

Although unadvised by Apple, one can certainly install a previous version than the OS which shipped with a Mac.

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Not exactly...or not normally. When a new model Macintosh ships...it usually ships with the most current OS available at that time...which also will be the "minimum" OS that Macintosh computer model can run. So for example...the latest MacBook Pro's are shipping with Lion. The absolute "oldest" version of the Mac OS they can run is OS 10.7.2....so Snow Leopard cannot be installed on these computers.

Regarding your Mac Pro. The deal with the Mac Pro's is...the Mac Pro model line-up hasn't seen a "refresh" in quite some time. The Mac Pro 5,1's (the current model)...were originally released July, 2010 (that's a long time in "computer-land").

So although brand new Mac Pro 5,1's are currently shipping with OS 10.7 "Lion"...they originally shipped with OS 10.6.4. So you should have no problems "downgrading" your Mac Pro 5,1 to Snow Leopard. Just get yourself a Snow Leopard install disk (still being sold at the online Apple Store)...and do the install.

HTH,

- Nick

Pixelbender said:

A hardy G'Day back to you. And thanks for the welcome.

Although unadvised by Apple, one can certainly install a previous version than the OS which shipped with a Mac. This usually involves Target Disk Mode, or switching out HDDs. The problem with downgrading the OS on a Mac which has undergone any hardware changes subsequent to the older OS version – means certain drivers and/or extensions will not be present in the install. This can result in anomalies (minor or major), which may only be remedied by switching back to the OS which shipped with the Mac, or a newer one.

My question specifically addresses the fact that the Currently Shipping Mac Pro [5,1], has not had any hardware upgrades since it was released in mid 2010. If you buy a new Mac Pro today; it will be identical to the one you bought before Lion was released. In fact some currently stocked Mac Pros will come with 10.6 installed, along with a 10.7 DVD.

When or if a new Mac Pro is released with Thunderbolt – things will be different.

Yet, today; my question remains: Given a new Mac Pro 5,1 which shipped with Lion installed – Will it behave itself once reverted back to Snow Leo, the OS which originally was shipped with the MP 5,1. Or has Apple amended the firmware in such a way to cause problems beyond using a 10.6 install disk?

Thanks to all.

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I would be interested in the ultimate answer to this as I am waiting to buy a Mac Pro hoping for a Thunderbolt equipped updated version. If that doesn't happen, I'll buy the current model, and if I do, I would like to be able to run Snow Leopard if I choose . . . though, honestly, I have been please overall with Lion.

Razormac said:

I would be interested in the ultimate answer to this as I am waiting to buy a Mac Pro hoping for a Thunderbolt equipped updated version. If that doesn't happen, I'll buy the current model, and if I do, I would like to be able to run Snow Leopard if I choose . . . though, honestly, I have been please overall with Lion.

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Please see my post above.

You can definitely run Snow Leopard on the currently selling Mac Pro's (model 5,1's)...but if someone wanted or needed to run Snow Leopard on a newer "Thunderbolt" Mac Pro (if it is ever released)...I'm betting that the minimum OS it will run will be some version of Lion.

So if Snow Leopard is needed...definitely get a current Mac Pro!

- Nick

pigoo3 said:

Please see my post above.

- Nick

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Yeah . . . you type faster than I do. Saw your response after I posted. Thought that was the case, but wanted to be sure.

Razormac said:

Yeah . . . you type faster than I do. Saw your response after I posted. Thought that was the case, but wanted to be sure.

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I didn't realize you were in the market for a Mac Pro...good for you!

Any special purpose...or just always wanted one?

I've had two...the original "quad-core" model...and currently a 2009 "Nehalem" (4,1), 8-core, 2.26ghz model.

- Nick

Empirical Firmware Issues W/10.6 on "New" MP

pigoo3 said:

You can definitely run Snow Leopard on the currently selling Mac Pro's (model 5,1's)

- Nick

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I sincerely appreciate your input. Yet, do you say "definitely" because it makes sense (which I agree with). Or do you actually have empirical knowledge of a MP which shipped with Lion installed; then fully tested out with Snow Leopard?

Others have stated that although no hardware updates have been implemented on the currently shipping MP; Apple has changed the firmware so as not to allow a Snow Leopard install disk to work. As I posted earlier, to get 10.6 on a new Mac Pro you need to put it in Target Disk Mode, run the installer from a different Mac, then run a combo-updater. Or so I was told.

Some have reported no problems after doing this; others have reported monitor and SuperDrive issues. My year-old MP came with 10.6 & I love it. There are problems when booted in 10.4 or 10.5 (naturally). I need a second Mac Pro with 10.6. And, I am trying to verify if I will be ok purchasing a new one with 10.7 installed, or if I need to find one which shipped with Snow Leopard.

Can anyone verify the firmware update in the currently shipping (2010) Mac Pro 5,1? And if this Firmware is a dealbreaker for dialing back to Snow Leopard?

Thanks again for any and all responses.

Pixelbender said:

Others have stated that although no hardware updates have been implemented on the currently shipping MP; Apple has changed the firmware so as not to allow a Snow Leopard install disk to work.

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Do you have any creditable links to support this? I've done some research...and couldn't find anything creditable.

Here is a link to the Apple EFI Firmware update for 2010 Mac Pro's...it mentions nothing about not being able to run Snow Leopard.

Mac Pro EFI Firmware Update 1.5

Pixelbender said:

Some have reported no problems after doing this; others have reported monitor and SuperDrive issues.

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People on the internet report all sorts of issues...and many times...draw incorrect conclusions (especially when they have only a basic knowledge of computers, and draw incorrect conclusion based on "cause & effect").

This is why I asked about..."creditable" sources of information.

Pixelbender said:

My year-old MP came with 10.6. It has problems when booted in 10.4 or 10.5 (naturally).

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Of course it's going to have problems booting into OS 10.4 or 10.5! If it's a Mac Pro 5,1 model...it CANNOT run OS 10.4 or 10.5...since the minimum OS it can run is OS 10.6.4.

- Nick

p.s. If you need a 2nd Mac Pro...and you're concerned about being able to run OS 10.6 on a currently shipping Mac Pro 5,1 (with Lion installed on it)...the best folks to ask would be Apple. Call (or make an appointment) to speak with a "Genius"...and see what they say.

But...I've dealt with the Apple "Genius's"...and sometimes some of them still get it wrong! Especially since they probably don't work on too many Mac Pros (they see lots of iMacs, MacBook Pros, MacBook's, and MacBook Air's).

p.s.s. Another option (if you want 100% assurance that a 2nd Mac Pro will be able to run Snow Leopard)...is purchase an older model (used) Mac Pro. I have a 2009 4,1 model Mac Pro...and it certainly can run OS 10.6 Snow Leopard (it's running 10.6 now)...and I bought it used (saved about $1000 vs. new)...so nothing wrong with buying used (IMHO)!

Only one way to find out for sure. Give it a go and see what happens if you are so disappointed with Lion.

The official company line is that newer Mac Pros are engineered not to accept a Snow Leopard installation. This is easily doable through firmware if Apple simply makes the machines unable to take the 10.6 DVDs that came with the Mac Pros originally, since the retail DVDs won't work due to having too old a version of Snow Leopard. I haven't heard of anyone trying since then, probably because no one wants to spend $5000 on a machine that they may or may not be able to use. At this point, you may be better off finding something used/refurbished or simply buying a regular Windows box.

If it were easy or even possible, there would be plenty of reports on the web about this and tips on how to do it.

There aren't.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

The (simple) Question Remains

Thanks for the input from Staff & regular folks.
Nick "pig003" = Yes I will consider a used box; just having problems finding a spiffy MP 5,1.

Apparently, no one knows more than what I have already stated above.

• From the Apple Support Forum: New owners have posted that – Firmware on currently shipping MP will not allow a 10.6 Insrall Disk

• The issue of refused Install Disks is easily circumvented (personal experience)
______________________________________________________
** QUESTION REMAINS

Has anyone personally experienced, or read postings of:
Operational anomalies encountered after reverting a "New" Mac Pro to Snow Leopard

Particularly considering — the currently available new MP originally shipped with OS X 10.6 and there have apparently been no Hardware changes.
_______________________________________________________

Thanks again for all the opinions. I'm just hoping someone can verify what seems logical: That there shouldn't be any problems .

Happy Vernal Equinox everybody !

Reply to earlier posting by "Decepstor"

Originally posted by Discepstor
" ... simply buying a regular Windows box"

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Aren't you ashamed of yourself; saying that in a forum like this?

But seriously – Thanks for verifying the official Apple stance on new MP's. Their OS policy has always been such, for usually good reason.

Pixelbender said:

Nick "pig003" = Yes I will consider a used box; just having problems finding a spiffy MP 5,1.

Apparently, no one knows more than what I have already stated above.

Click to expand...

Have you looked on e-Bay at all? Desktops usually see much less abuse than laptops...so many that you find should be in good shape (especially if they are being sold by individual sellers).

Maybe (because of shipping costs)...you could focus on used 5,1 Mac Pro's within a 0-25 or 0-50 miles radius of where you live. Then you could pick it up in person...and maybe save on shipping costs (and possible shipping abuse with such a heavy item...especially if it is not packed well by the seller).

As far as the original question (can new 5,1 Mac Pro's be "downgraded" to run Snow Leopard)...here are a few Apple links that may shed a bit more light on things (no guarantees):

Mac OS X versions (builds) for computers
Finding your Mac OS X version and build information
Don't install a version of Mac OS X earlier than what came with your Mac

The 3rd link may be the most enlightening...since it basically says "You should not install a version of Mac OS X earlier than that which came with your Mac."

We usually don't run into this sort of problem...because Apple usually updates each model line (MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac-Mini, MacBook Air, Mac Pro) at least once/year...sometimes twice in the same year. But since it has been so long since Apple has updated the Mac Pro lineup...we are running into this "funky" OS issue/problem!

- Nick

Reply to Nick

Thanks again Nick for keeping on top of new posts.

No, I have not looked to eBay. As, I would only plop down a few thousands with some sort of substantial warranty. So I have limited my search to long standing commercial concerns like PowerMax.

I have previously been to your links. Looks like we exercise similar search modalities.

Thank you for the time to post and for all the good work on this forum.

– RD

Pixelbender said:

No, I have not looked to eBay. As, I would only plop down a few thousands with some sort of substantial warranty. So I have limited my search to long standing commercial concerns like PowerMax.

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Places like Powermax usually charge way too much for used computers. I can understand any reluctance to want to purchase off e-Bay...but here is something else to consider. First find someone who is selling their own individual Mac Pro. Usually they will be better taken care of...compared to a "professional seller" on e-Bay...who may be getting used Mac Pro's by the pallet load from companies or universities that may be upgrading.

If someone selling a used Mac Pro (e-Bay) lives close enough to you...you may be able to visit the seller & see the computer BEFORE the e-Bay auction closes. You can then assess the computers condition (before bidding on it)...then if you "win" the auction...you can pick it up later, avoid shipping fees, and pay with cash (if you prefer that).

You could try the same thing with Craig's List. Search your local area...and then try other areas/cities nearby.

I purchased a 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 from someone off Craig's List about 1.5-2.0 years ago. I had to drive 120 miles each way (240 miles round trip)...but I got a really good price on it...that's why I made the effort. Of course when I got there I had to assess the computers condition (functional & cosmetic)...decide whether to buy it or not...and then head home either empty handed or with a Mac Pro.

I of course decided to buy it (otherwise no story)...and it has been running fine for 1.5-2.0 years. In fact it's the computer I'm using right now on Mac-Forums!

Pixelbender said:

I have previously been to your links. Looks like we exercise similar search modalities.

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I thought maybe you might have been to at least a couple of those links (if not all)...since you seem to be a good internet researcher! But posted them anyway...just in case.

Again good hunting,

- Nick