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Apple Named Defendant in Class Action Lawsuit against Carrier IQ

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Apple Named Defendant in Class Action Lawsuit Against Carrier IQ

Despite the fact that Apple allows users an easy way to opt out of the service, have removed it entirely from most of their phones and that Apple’s implementation of Carrier IQ tracks no personal information whatsoever, guess what? Cupertino’s been named in a class action lawsuit over the notorious keylogging software, along with a host of other hardware makers, all of whom are way more guilty.
 

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More "let's make the lawyers rich" nonsense. Shakespeare had the right idea.

(Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78) :Smirk:
 
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kill all lawyers.. is that the quote?
 

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Yep, you got it. Good old William S. :)
 
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Apple is just as deserving of being the defendant in this case as any of the other companies. Talk about how you can opt out of it all you want, but there is nothing in the description "Diagnostics and Usage information" that tells people their every move is being outright keylogged.
 
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Apple is just as deserving of being the defendant in this case as any of the other companies. Talk about how you can opt out of it all you want, but there is nothing in the description "Diagnostics and Usage information" that tells people their every move is being outright keylogged.

There is also no evidence, at least on Apple's devices, that every move is being keylogged. Quite the contrary, Apple has point blank stated they have never done that, and an analysis of the logs shows that there doesn't appear to be anything sensitive stored. Just because CIQ's software offers the capability to record one's every move doesn't mean it's being utilized to that degree by all of their customers. I'm not saying this doesn't warrant further investigation, but a class action lawsuit so soon is a bit extreme.

It might also be worth reading this article:
More research shows exactly what Carrier IQ can, and cannot do | Android Central
 
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Sure, "everybody does it" when it comes to tracking us. Is that suppose to be some sort of justification or absolution? That is a non sequitur in my opinion. It happens because we tolerate it. We have the right to change our minds just like they have the right to insert fine print into EULAs and file appeals. That doesn't make it acceptable, it just makes us sheep who will jump through whatever hoop to get a cool new toy. OK, maybe more like sheep who will accept whatever as long as we don't have to jump through any hoops at all or can't see the hoops we jump through. If you don't mind being tracked, don't get all twisted about people who do mind it and want to hit back. They have the right to be sheep dogs as much as you have the right to be sheep. If you do decide to hit back, do it so hard and hurt your opponent so badly they never even think of doing it again.

As far as lawyers getting involved...

Yes, lawyers are a pain at times and are well paid for pushing the limits of persuasion. Still, sometimes lawyers are needed in today's society (in this Libertarian's view). Unfortunately, you can't legally call a person out to a field on the edge of town at 6AM for satisfaction via challenge by ball or by blade. Were it still the case, there might be many people and corporations reconsidering if they really wanted to put Darwin's theory to the test based on some sneaky wording or obfuscated code. Maybe they'd even start asking themselves before making some "just shy of crossing the line" decisions... "Even though I am capable of doing this, should I do this, knowing how it could effect others and thus come back to effect me?"
 
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There is also no evidence, at least on Apple's devices, that every move is being keylogged. Quite the contrary, Apple has point blank stated they have never done that, and an analysis of the logs shows that there doesn't appear to be anything sensitive stored. Just because CIQ's software offers the capability to record one's every move doesn't mean it's being utilized to that degree by all of their customers. I'm not saying this doesn't warrant further investigation, but a class action lawsuit so soon is a bit extreme.

It might also be worth reading this article:
More research shows exactly what Carrier IQ can, and cannot do | Android Central

That analysis of the logs you linked states no such thing. It just says that there are CarrierIQ references that are only activated if you have your phone set to send diagnostic information to Apple, which I already stated. chpwn has by his own admission not determined the full extent of what CarrierIQ on iOS can do, so it would be premature to say it can't do something he hasn't said it can yet. And all the other article you linked shows is that how much data is collected depends on he profile provided by the phone manufacturer/carrier - and HTC's phone has shown that it is possible for this data to include straight-up keylogging. Apple's good word simply isn't sufficient to guarantee that they're not doing the same thing - that's why something like a trial where evidence will prove what's going on one way or the other is a good idea and Apple needs to be one of the companies under scrutiny.
 
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That analysis of the logs you linked states no such thing. It just says that there are CarrierIQ references that are only activated if you have your phone set to send diagnostic information to Apple, which I already stated.

For your reading pleasure from that link:

"Finally, the local logs on iOS seem to store much less information than what has been seen on Android, limited to some call activity and location (if enabled), but not any text from the web browser, SMS, or anywhere else."

chpwn has by his own admission not determined the full extent of what CarrierIQ on iOS can do, so it would be premature to say it can't do something he hasn't said it can yet. And all the other article you linked shows is that how much data is collected depends on he profile provided by the phone manufacturer/carrier - and HTC's phone has shown that it is possible for this data to include straight-up keylogging. Apple's good word simply isn't sufficient to guarantee that they're not doing the same thing - that's why something like a trial where evidence will prove what's going one one way or the other is a good idea and Apple needs to be one of the companies under scrutiny.

I don't entirely disagree. However, my general point is that Apple has already been declared guilty by association. There is no evidence of wrongdoing or deception on their part. None. Zero. Nada. Just random speculation spurred by an "analysis" of the software on a different platform… an analysis that has already been suggested as flawed by other security experts. Besides, the government has already launched an investigation into the matter. I don't believe Apple should be exempt from the investigation, but a class action lawsuit is frivolous at this point.
 
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For your reading pleasure from that link:

"Finally, the local logs on iOS seem to store much less information than what has been seen on Android, limited to some call activity and location (if enabled), but not any text from the web browser, SMS, or anywhere else."
That statement was based on chpwn's blog, which I've already pointed out has an incomplete understanding of the extent of Carrier IQ's activities in iOS by the author's own admission.


I don't entirely disagree. However, my general point is that Apple has already been declared guilty by association. There is no evidence of wrongdoing or deception on their part. None. Zero. Nada. Just random speculation spurred by an "analysis" of the software on a different platform… an analysis that has already been suggested as flawed by other security experts. Besides, the government has already launched an investigation into the matter. I don't believe Apple should be exempt from the investigation, but a class action lawsuit is frivolous at this point.
I never said they deserved to be found liable -- only that they deserved to be one of the defendants. I think such a lawsuit is necessary for any serious investigations into the activity to take place, since Apple is as a result being made accountable to lawyers representing its customers rather than to government officials that may rely on Apple's support for political campaigns.
 
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That statement was based on chpwn's blog, which I've already pointed out has an incomplete understanding of the extent of Carrier IQ's activities in iOS by the author's own admission.

That doesn't change my assertion that an analysis shows that there doesn't appear to be anything sensitive stored. The fact that his understanding is "incomplete" doesn't change that. If he felt his understanding was too limited to be meaningful, then he should have kept his mouth shut. As it stands, it appears to be the most "expert" opinion outside Apple that we have.

I never said they deserved to be found liable -- only that they deserved to be one of the defendants. I think such a lawsuit is necessary for any serious investigations into the activity to take place, since Apple is as a result being made accountable to lawyers representing its customers rather than to government officials that may rely on Apple's support for political campaigns.

Why should they even have to defend themselves? Again… the only thing they have been demonstrated to be guilty of is relying on a software vendor whose product some wholly unrelated company "may" have abused. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Apple has abused it. None whatsoever. Just baseless accusations that they could if they wanted to. If this is appropriate, then it'd be appropriate for a bunch of us to file a lawsuit against you because you have all the tools (Xcode) needed on your Mac to make malware. I haven't a shred of evidence to support the allegation, but hey… you could be making it and that's good enough, right? Maybe we should all be investigated for credit card fraud because we all use the same internet that the Russian mafia uses to conduct their activities. Any monkey can make accusations. Having a case to base it on is another matter entirely. If all lawsuits were allowed to proceed based on wild speculation… and that is EXACTLY what this lawsuit is… then our courts would be an unmanageable mess.
 
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That doesn't change my assertion that an analysis shows that there doesn't appear to be anything sensitive stored. The fact that his understanding is "incomplete" doesn't change that. If he felt his understanding was too limited to be meaningful, then he should have kept his mouth shut. As it stands, it appears to be the most "expert" opinion outside Apple that we have.
You're right -- he should have kept his mouth shut until he was sure of his findings if he wanted to avoid misunderstanding. But it's not his fault news sources like to quote bit and pieces to fit their agendas. I was trying to save face for you by not mentioning a part of the article that was wrong.

Why should they even have to defend themselves? Again… the only thing they have been demonstrated to be guilty of is relying on a software vendor whose product some wholly unrelated company "may" have abused. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Apple has abused it. None whatsoever. Just baseless accusations that they could if they wanted to. If this is appropriate, then it'd be appropriate for a bunch of us to file a lawsuit against you because you have all the tools (Xcode) needed on your Mac to make malware. I haven't a shred of evidence to support the allegation, but hey… you could be making it and that's good enough, right? Maybe we should all be investigated for credit card fraud because we all use the same internet that the Russian mafia uses to conduct their activities. Any monkey can make accusations. Having a case to base it on is another matter entirely. If all lawsuits were allowed to proceed based on wild speculation… and that is EXACTLY what this lawsuit is… then our courts would be an unmanageable mess.

This comparison is beyond facetious. If I had used a program whose express purpose is to log user data and has been demonstrated as capable of keylogging, and secretly installed that piece of software on all my customers' computers while wrapping it into a vague feature name and not outlining exactly how much data it sends, shadily not revealing its presence until someone else got caught doing the same thing -- then yes, I should be investigated.
 
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This comparison is beyond facetious. If I had used a program whose express purpose is to log user data and has been demonstrated as capable of keylogging, and secretly installed that piece of software on all my customers' computers while wrapping it into a vague feature name and not outlining exactly how much data it sends, shadily not revealing its presence until someone else got caught doing the same thing -- then yes, I should be investigated.

Not it's not. There is absolutely NO evidence that Apple has done any such secretive logging. None. Zero. Nada. You are making a gross assumption that there is one and only one way to use CIQ's services and software.
 
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The reason Apple is being called out is because they create the phone software (not the IQ software), design the hardware, and determine what can be installed on them.
It is one of the problems of being a “sole” provider of a product.
Samsung can say its Verizon, or Sprint or whoever. Verizon can say it’s Samsung or HTC, etc….but Apple dictates what software goes on the iPhone, not the carrier.
Being that Apple is the only creator of Apple products, then they will of course be pointed at in regards to any Apple product in question.

It may very well be a fact the Apple (and all the phone makers for that matter) only use the software for diagnostic reasons, and don’t really trace or store any meaningful data, but with all the privacy concerns lately regarding Facebook, and multiple other companies through the last few years (and yes, including Apple and the data tracking “bug”), it is good that we hold the companies to a “right of –expected- privacy”, in such a way that they have the right to prove their innocence.

Yeah, people are saying Apple and the others are automatically guilty…but even as people say that, it isn’t going to diminish any of their sales. People are going to buy it anyway, and in a week or two, hardly any one will even care, and will be off to get mad at the next thing to get mad at….
 
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Not it's not. There is absolutely NO evidence that Apple has done any such secretive logging. None. Zero. Nada. You are making a gross assumption that there is one and only one way to use CIQ's services and software.
I don't understand why you're against Apple being investigated. If they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to hide. ;D

I won't make any assumptions but I wouldn't be surprised if there was something more to it.
 
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It may very well be a fact the Apple (and all the phone makers for that matter) only use the software for diagnostic reasons, and don’t really trace or store any meaningful data, but with all the privacy concerns lately regarding Facebook, and multiple other companies through the last few years (and yes, including Apple and the data tracking “bug”), it is good that we hold the companies to a “right of –expected- privacy”, in such a way that they have the right to prove their innocence.

Agreed… I have no problem with the government investigating any potential violations of consumer privacy laws, and the government is investigating. The concern over what's going on is legitimate. The problem I have is a bunch of lawyers filing a class action lawsuit alleging wrongdoing when there is zero evidence of it. It's a play by a bunch of sleezebag lawyers hoping for a big payday in fees while negotiating a $25 voucher for us poor souls whose privacy may or may not have been violated. You can bet yer britches they are angling for a settlement from companies who find the cost of settling cheaper than fighting it. All this nonsense drives up the cost of doing business. Costs that get passed on to the consumer, further driving up our cost of living. THAT is my problem. If they want to sue… bring facts and evidence to the table, or wait for the government to finish their inquiry. Act on real facts and evidence, not "gut instinct" or wild speculation.
 
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Not it's not. There is absolutely NO evidence that Apple has done any such secretive logging. None. Zero. Nada. You are making a gross assumption that there is one and only one way to use CIQ's services and software.

Apple has admitted to using the software to collect data, and how much is collected isn't stated in exact terms anywhere by Apple.
 
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Apple has admitted to using the software to collect data, and how much is collected isn't stated in exact terms anywhere by Apple.

Of course they are using the software to collect data. Collecting data is the point of submitting the crash logs that users of Apple's devices have to explicitly opt IN to. As for how "much" data… allow me to quote from my previous link:

"Apple says it has never used Carrier IQ to record keystrokes or personal messages."

Is that not clear enough? Even if it isn't, getting to the bottom of that by the government is the point of their inquiry. A class action lawsuit by 3rd parties is frivolous at this stage. The government represents my interests. Lawyers filing a 3rd party class action lawsuit they claim are being filed on "my" behalf, despite the complete lack of evidence of wrongdoing (wild speculation based on what someone else is doing is NOT evidence)? No… they just represent their own interests in garnering a big pay packet for their efforts.
 
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"Apple says it has never used Carrier IQ to record keystrokes or personal messages."

This is very clear. It is also utterly insufficient, especially considering Apple's lack of even this much clarity until another implementation of Carrier IQ got bad press (and intercepting personal messages would be a violation of the Federal Wiretap Act...). Not to mention there is a whole lot of information outside those areas that I still wouldn't want carriers or Apple to track while claiming it's for "diagnostic" purposes, such as specific browser history.

Speak to the greed of lawyers all you want, but these lawsuits have the potential to force these companies to divulge more information than they might otherwise let loose, and they aren't going to cost us a dime - Apple wouldn't dare stray from its current iPhone pricing model for the foreseeable future even if it got slammed by this lawsuit, and data plans have had more or less consistent pricing as well. It really is a no-lose situation with a justified concern at its starting point, so I don't see why you're so adamant about defending Apple and Carrier IQ.

In a nutshell, Apple brought this on itself by not making that little opt-in switch a lot clearer on what it does, and the lack of transparency on policies pertaining to private information is a legitimate cause for concern that hurts their credibility when they try to clarify after the fact.
 

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