Classic Mac not booting & How to switch floppy drives?

First off, hello everyone, my name's David and I joined these forums to seek help concerning my old Macs. I hope I won't be making a nuisance of myself ;P

Now for a little background; I found an abandoned Mac SE this spring and being a fan of discontinued computers, I brought it home, hoping I could play around with it a bit. It appears to be in excellent condition, it boots up quick and smoothly in OS 6.0.8, everything is fine except for one thing; the drive is a 800k model, so I can't transfer any data to or from it.

Since my enthusiasm was going through the roof at this point, I decided to go ahead and buy a Mac Classic so I could at least satisfy my need to geek out with a long-discontinued Apple machine. As soon as it arrived, I plugged it in only to find out it wouldn't beep or display anything. The fan is turning and the HDD sounds like it's loading, but nothing happens past that point. The keyboard lights flash for a split second as to say it's recognized but then, nothing. I opened it up to try to locate the problem, since I had the proper tools. I unplugged the HDD, then the floppy, then both, but it didn't do anything. I searched for loose wires or broken connections, but all I could find is what appears to be some sort of led-looking, broken glass capsule at the bottom of the case, along with a few plastic chips, making me believe it's been dropped or hit on at some point. At least it doesn't smokes or smell of burning plastic, so that's a fairly good sign, I guess.

Based on my description, do you have any idea as to what may be the problem? Can it be fixed at all?

Otherwise, since the floppy drive seems to be still in good shape, I was wondering if it was compatible with my SE, and if it is, how I could switch the SE's drive with the Classic's? I know the controller chips need to be changed too, but I don't know if I can just remove them from the Classic and plug them on the SE's motherboard.

I hope you can give me directions, I'd really like to have a classic Mac I can actually play with.

What data do you need to transfer to the SE and from what computer?

It sounds as if the classic is too far gone, but they make really cool book ends

Bah, all I wanted is to play some old games and maybe even try to use Think C to make a program or two on a real vintage Mac. Looks like my best bet is to try to install the Classic's floppy drive and control chips in the SE, but can this be done at all to begin with?

If it's an early SE, it might not have the HD controller chip in it for a 1.44 MB floppy. I know the later SE's all did though. Otherwise you can't just put in the 1.44MB Floppy from the Classic. I am taking off for the day, but when I return I will see what I can find to help you. Where are you trying to get the files from? I hope not from a PC as the PC can not read Apple formatted Floppies.

I have 2 SE's here and a Classic. My Classic recently developed symptoms like yours. Have not had the time to troubleshoot.

If you can find an old SCSI 1 hard drive, that is a good way to transfer data onto an SE, but it requires formatting the disk on the SE and using a bridge machine like an Apple g4 tower or similar that can still run os x and OS 9 and that has both modern USB and the capability to connect a SCSI 1 disk, usiing a SCSI card

with such old macs you really need a bridge machine that can communicate with modern machines but still have enough legacy to transfer to an early 90s Mac

dtravis7 said:

If it's an early SE, it might not have the HD controller chip in it for a 1.44 MB floppy. I know the later SE's all did though. Otherwise you can't just put in the 1.44MB Floppy from the Classic. I am taking off for the day, but when I return I will see what I can find to help you. Where are you trying to get the files from? I hope not from a PC as the PC can not read Apple formatted Floppies.

Click to expand...

I knew about the controller chips, that's why I'm asking if it can be done at all, using the Classic's hardware. If the chips are compatible, I could just install everything in the SE, otherwise I'm kind of screwed.

As for the files, I was thinking of using HFV Explorer to copy files from my PC to Mac formatted floppies. If that fails, I have an iMac G3 that could do the job, assuming my usb floppy drive is compatible with it. It doesn't have a SCSI port though, so I fear the idea of using it as a bridge may not be applicable in this case.

DieJay said:

Now for a little background; I found an abandoned Mac SE this spring and being a fan of discontinued computers, I brought it home, hoping I could play around with it a bit. It appears to be in excellent condition, it boots up quick and smoothly in OS 6.0.8, everything is fine except for one thing; the drive is a 800k model, so I can't transfer any data to or from it.

Click to expand...

Here are two potentially simple option's:

1. Look on e-Bay for an external floppy disk drive for your Mac SE. Here's the first one I came across...I'm sure there's more:

Apple 3.5 External Floppy Drive Model A9M0106 | eBay

2. Since you seem to be REALLY into the old Mac hardware...just find another SE like your's that is fully operational. I bought one a while ago for $15 bucks. Maybe even look for a Mac SE with the internal hard drive.

HTH,

- Nick

I decided to open my SE to compare the hardware and it looks like the Classic and SE are not quite as similar as I thought. It turns out the three controller chips I need are not even used in the Classic, instead it uses a single larger chip that's definitely not compatible with the SE. On the bright side, I found out what that glass capsule was for; it was the tip of the cathode ray tube! It's as if someone tore apart the part that connects the CRT to the motherboard, breaking the glass tip along with it. That explains why it won't display anything.

I really don't want to have to buy a whole new Mac just for that, and as far as I know, the external drive still needs the controller chips to be installed. I'll try to replace the CRT as it seems to be the same model on both Macs. Hopefully that will solve the problem, or at least most of it.

The CRT should fit from the Classic into the SE. I did a swap from a Classic to an SE once in fact for the same reason. Keep us posted.

You seem to know your stuff on the electronics side so this is probably blindingly obvious to you, but just in case. CRTs make outstanding capacitors . . . make sure you discharge any buildup and ground out the removed CRT if it is going to set around for any length of time.

Razormac said:

You seem to know your stuff on the electronics side so this is probably blindingly obvious to you, but just in case. CRTs make outstanding capacitors . . . make sure you discharge any buildup and ground out the removed CRT if it is going to set around for any length of time.

Click to expand...

VERY much agreed. Be careful! Discharge that Anode wire on the side first before removing it.

Razormac said:

You seem to know your stuff on the electronics side so this is probably blindingly obvious to you, but just in case. CRTs make outstanding capacitors . . . make sure you discharge any buildup and ground out the removed CRT if it is going to set around for any length of time.

Click to expand...

Heh, I sure wouldn't like to catch a 1500 volts shock, don't worry about it =P

So anyway, I could switch the CRT from the SE to the Classic without problems, and surprise surprise, it worked! It now boots in OS 6.0.8 and everything is in order!... or almost anyway; the speaker still can't work, which is probably due to faulty capacitors according to another source, but I don't have soldering tools so I'll have to live with it.

Now to find a way to dispose of my SE's leftovers.